Yay...

groups does not effect you, and all you really care about is your wallet, then yes.

For some people it's all about some perception of others' possible, maybe acts. Forgetting the bigger picture, the social injustices. Maybe you were not forgetting at all, maybe it's truly how you feel?

You try to play the misunderstood victim after claiming I'm all for corporate corruption?

This is getting ridiculous. I'm not going to engage in this type of stupidity.

Afghanistan? Seriously? I am a woman. i marched for abortion rights, took my baby to marches with signs that I wanted him to be able to add before he could multiply. You have NO idea what my beliefs and path are, except that I absolutely do NOT support Hillary.
On edit, I have never needed to "evolve" on gay rights, I have always believed in equal rights for all.

At this point Roe v Wade is not my highest priority. My priorities are economic justice, police reform, tax reform, and ending citizen united.

Voting for a non candidate accomplishes what exactly? Certainly not the economic justice, police reform, or overturning CU you want.

by the billionaires.

according to Hillary folk you all do not need our votes anyhow.....

You are admitting you would rather throw huge swaths of America's demographics under the bus unless Bernie is driving.

This may help you get started

http://www.anamericanvision.com/info/state_certifications.php

Next election Clinton is the nominee (not my first chance, but let's say it happens).

100,000 votes are cast in our election. 49,998 for clinton and 49,999 for the repub. And 3 voters write in Bernie. Three one-thousandths of one percent. And the repub wins.

Get it yet? Writing-in Bernie or your pet rock or the King of Siam produces the same result: a generation lost in trying to get to reform after voting rights are eviscerated and CU is preserved and extended and immigrants are denied a path to citizenship (and voting).

that is your business, but what does calling the person you don't like names accomplish?

just curious

Some of us, though, have the luxury of voting our conscience. However, I do not believe Hillary is going to win the primary anyway.

But since you guys all know how unwanted Hillary is by so many, why don't you just support Bernie and ensure that a candidate who will get the votes from the base AS WELL AS moderates and a decent amount of Republicans? If you are trying to make sure we win the general that's the clear way to go.

Please re-read the op, I CLEARLY put ALL Dem candidates in there!

Hillary.

If you want to be sure to win the general, back Bernie. He's the one who's fighting for EVERYONE and who will not cowtow to the banksters and the corporate world.

Problem solved.

This is a RESPONSE to another op titled 'SANDERS OR BUST!' that is all about not voting for Hillary. I personally will be voting for Hillary in the primary, then WHOEVER the Dem nominee is during GE.

It would seem more appropriate to do that than to clutter up the board.

This constant badgering of people who don't believe the same way as others do accomplishes nothing other than to further alienate them and harden their positions.

Personally, I seriously hope that Hillary is not the nominiee; I'd to know that my vote went to the best person out there to do the job.

You should have clicked on "Reply to this thread" instead of "Start a new discussion".

who will uphold the right to choose, etc.

I would expect nothing more from JannyVee......

On Wed Oct 21, 2015, 07:50 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I won't, I won't, I won't!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=711253

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Comparing another member to a screaming child is going too far even for GDP, this kind of pettiness makes DU suck.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Oct 21, 2015, 08:03 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seriously. Like we're not all adults here? Maybe the answer is to limit the number of alerts here per month? People are compared to much worse here than chidren,and regularly.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That whole thread is best described by that post.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, and otherwise inappropriate.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh for cryin' out loud. Don't people have anything to do but send alerts on posts they don't like?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Can you please provide a list of insulting terms towards Hillary and her supporters that are allowed now on BU?

Thanks

And also, thanks for helping elect a republican if your candidate doesn't get the nomination. Wow. Can't wait for a republican to pick the Supremes and my marriage is taken away from me.

Is it acceptable to call supporters of Sanders "BernieBaggers"?

and the post was not hidden.

And not even very good meta at that.

Assuming they actually WIN the general has big enough coattails to help flip the Senate. Otherwise your point is pretty moot. Hillary does not in my opinion. I have serious doubts about her ability to even win.

They're usually just smearing Sanders and his supporters. Hillary supporters are so mean.

Oh my godzilla. Take a look around GDP. Take a look at pro-Hillary threads. Don't throw stones. Yeah there's asshole supporters on BOTH sides. Don't pull that crap.

If you turned your cynicism into optimism and action I think we can up our odds!

You've already stated you're in the SANDERS OR BUST! camp.

She has my vote though

Polls have shown that. Bernie wouldn't lose on issues such as the TPP and H-1B visas like Hillary would to Donald Trump with voters that care about American jobs, and where these issues are separate viewpoints for Trump and Hillary but not for Trump and Bernie. Bernie will win on other issues over Trump with more sanity and less corporate alliance than Trump has.

And if Bernie wins, not only would he do just as much to make sure that the reproductive rights of women, and the rights of minorities are protected as he has ALWAYS stood for longer than even Hillary has since the 60's with his SCOTUS selections, and gay people's rights for marriage that he has stood for decades in support of rather than just doing so recently, but he would also make sure any new justices would not support the judicial activist notion of corporate personhood that has polluted so many recent decisions that has made our government so corrupt now.

It is increased likelihood of beating Republicans AND that he would put in justices that would be about even more than just protecting women's rights and minority rights that make him the choice for Democrats in my book!

That is kinda the point of my op, which is a response to another posters SANDERS OR BUST! op. There is no SANDERS OR BUST! It should be DEMOCRATS OR BUST!

Most Bernie supporters will vote for the Dem nominee, but it psyches people up to say stuff like "Sanders or bust!" - kind of like how sports fans say "we're number one!" Even when they're not.

(note: I'm not implying that something as important as choosing our next president is a game, just that supporters and fans may act similarly)

and it showed up on DU.

Cool!

I wrote it from my phone while walking home from my job. I'll be looking forward to your hard hitting analysis from your satire alias later TWM.

If it was an unfair characterization I apologize.

No need to shine a light on it. They do well enough at that themselves. They aren't progressives and are socially conservative. Reference "Stockholm." Most who say they won't now will in the general(the segment who aren't social conservatives).

Reproductive rights? Meh, it doesn't affect me, just women I might impregnate. Social security? I don't need it, go ahead GOP, do what you will. Healthcare? I was covered before Obamacare. Global warming? I'll just move. Tax cuts for the rich? Thank you.

If you're not willing to live through all that for the revolution, you're not a "real progressive." Bernie or bust! I'm on board!

First of all, your premise is completely wrong. I have not heard any Bernie supporters ask for purity and you are presenting it as either Hillary or the GOP, which is ignorant.

Second of all, a vote for Hillary is a vote against our very system of democracy. If you care about our country you would vote for Bernie since he is the only one running on a platform of true democracy by not taking corporate/SuperPac money.

Condescend all you like, but all you are doing is showing how Hillary supporters are trying to shove someone corporate on us when we have a wonderful liberal to vote for. The smear mongering in your post is what I expect from Republicans. Vote for us or terra terra terra!!! Do you think Bernie wouldn't appoint liberals to SCOTUS? Polls show he beats Republicans by a larger margin than Hillary, so the safe bet is on Bernie.

So come on, vote for the person with the best record of fighting for the people and of regulating Wall Street. Vote for the person who is fighting to save democracy. Vote for Bernie or vote for oligarchy.

I used factual analysis of what would happen with the SANDERS OR BUST! mindset. Or do you not realize this is a response to an actual purity pledge op?

If Bernie doesn't get the nomination AND you live in a swing state, by all means vote for HRC.... or don't. I have the luxury of voting for Ronald McDonald knowing good and well Oregon will go blue. However, if enough of us jerk asses on the coast do what I do, maybe the 'con will win Oregon? Wouldn't that be a shit show? In that rare instance I won't accept blame, I will simply refer to the fantastic job the DNC did for picking our loser for us.

That really would be a shit show and the only thing that may eventually bend my hand to voting for her but most likely not.

Cheers!

We must do whatever we can to keep Republicans away from power.

Quite the opposite. It's more of a DEMOCRATS OR BUST! Read my first 2 sentences. I clearly put ALL Dem candidates in there.

fear and guilt in an attempt to triangulate folks into backing your unacceptable ass warmongering, corporate owned, civil liberties disdaining, global destabilization loving, vanity candidate.

ENOUGH!!! The Turd Way has got to go, I do not accept your desired flavor of conservative. You want conservative then you get it and the chips can fall where they may on the version and no more assistance from me in dismantling the country and killing the world. Whatever conservatives rule I blame the Turd Way superfine for the damage done.

You have had your way for decades and have been long warned that shit is coming to a head and still arrogantly demanding a note turn at bat. Hell no! I've seen this movie before over and over now. Enough is enough, how much damage and selling out you think these hacks should be allowed to do without resistance?

You guys have the driver's seat and have for decades now. It is you who are fully responsible, screw your sad sack manipulation there is no real opposition to the right even possible much less plausible with the Turd Way in charge and I am DONE playing this game. You don't want my help, you want obedient compliance with your fucked up agenda, well it is time for some serious hardball.

It might take 4 or 5 cycles but you'll break and then we can get to work building a future instead of constructing a dystopia.

If there was any honor in the Turd Way, they'd cut it out with the human shield techniques and get serious about changing course.

Hillary and Bernie would make great president's. Lets all make sure Republicans aren't allowed anywhere near the levers of power.

in my eyes.

I find it astounding that any people of reasonable intelligence can look at the problems we face in this world and years and years of trends and think Clinton is a rational option much less a good one.

I don't care that the TeaPubliKlans are worse, of course they are and the Turd Way has pushed them to new levels of extreme straight out of the John Birch Society as main street Republicanism while breaking their collective necks to occupy the former wicked and unacceptable space but without the southern strategy.

Even more unacceptable doesn't make a fresh coat of paint on the old unacceptable tolerable.

I won't be embracing the suck again, it definitively encourages sore suck being served up.

Of course he could declare himself a Dem tomorrow and stand shoulder to shoulder with the nominee but he's had 25 years to surprise us and he hasn't.

if 20% of excited Bernie supporting millennials
will sign it.
Oh, I forgot! Those darn kids don't vote anyway
right?
I tell you right now my prediction for what it is worth:
HRC gets the nomination, and the democratic party
will shrink to become irrelevant. That of course is
the wish of TPTB anyway.

that good people are unwilling to vote for.

Please re-read my 2nd sentence.

Everyone knows the score around here.

mean that the more politically engaged and enlightened members of the 99% won't vote for her.

But what it does mean is more wealth inequality, more security state spending, more military misadventures, more crappy Big Pharmacare, more student debt, and more politics as usual. When Clinton fails to motivate the politically disaffected masses to get off their asses and get to the polls, don't blame politically engaged activists. 90%+ of us will reluctantly hold our noses and vote for your corpodate.

if we allow Hillary Clinton to be the democratic nominee.

Bernie Sanders is our best hope of securing SCOTUS and our nation.

Hillary has 20 years of media and GOP hatred waiting to saturate the airwaves 24/7. All they got on Bernie is "he's a socialist!". I'm only one person, but that label suits me just fine.


Go Bernie !!!

every time I read an op like this.


Go Bernie!!!

Many fought for my right to it and you should not ask nor demand to know where it goes. I don't see where it is any of your business.

You can ask whom I support "today" but where my vote goes when all is said and done will be decided after the fat lady sings.

And that's the way our Founding Fathers wanted it, except for the fat lady.

It is trotted out when the Democrats field a bad candidate and expect us to fall in line and give them our votes. The excuse has been the same since 2000, and the only reason we see this meme at all is because those who propagate it have nothing substantive to say. Try as they might, they can't articulate why we should vote for the bad candidate du jour, so they attempt to bully and shame us into giving our votes to people we don't want in office.

I never believed this nonsense, and I doubt those who are committed to real political change believe it either. It's straight-up blackmail: support the rightward slide of the Democratic Party and its increasingly corporate candidates, or we will attack you for aiding the enemy.

Not anymore. Give me a good candidate, or lose my vote.

said we already crossed the lined from democracy into an oligarchy. The farther we go the harder it will be to get back. Voting for an oligarchy candidate (Goldman-Sachs loves HRC) will put the last nail in the coffin. We owe the 16 million American children living in poverty and the 16 million more American children living in low income, we owe them a change that brought us this poverty. It's immoral to continue to support the establishment that disregards poverty, disregards health care, disregards our seniors on SS, etc.

Sadly some are fooled by the babbles of promised social justice from those that have brought us to this point. Think about it. Goldman-Sachs and Wall Street don't care about social justice. They want to impoverish more of the 99% to gain bigger profits.

Those millions of children that go to bed hungry don't care about Supreme Court nominations. We must get Goldman-Sachs and big money out of politics.

Hardly. It feels more like the birth of a movement, not its swan song.

If you really care about SCOTUS seats I recommend you get behind the candidate who can win a general election.

in the GE. Bookmark it.

impossible to color within the lines using that thing.

your kindergarten teacher presents you with an F.

lol

So, I can only vote for Sanders and O'Malley and Sanders has my vote.

Here is the problem:

The current Democratic Party, under DWS et.al.'s leadership is basically Republican. Republican
ideology is anti-human and anti-civilization. Hillary Clinton will continue the republican ideology, just like
Bill Clinton and Obama.

We, as the thinking, rational, *normal* American patriots must resist the move to the right (Reich) as
it is destroying our civilization and our planet.

I will not vote Republican, I can assure you of that.

I will vote only very reluctantly for a corporatist. Hillary Clinton, like DLC/Third Way/New Democrats in general, is a corporatist. So is Barack Obama. So is Bill Clinton. This is a program that follows an economic theory called variously neoliberalism, Reaganomics, supply side economics or trickle-down economics. It is a fundamentally an unsustainable system and the results have been the transfer of wealth upwards. You may ask why almost all the income created since the crash of 2008 goes to a small class of people who own at least as much wealth than the bottom 50%. Yes, the fact that every president or either party we've had since 1980 has been a corporatist has a lot to do with it. The Free Trade pacts they have pushed have a lot to do with it. The fact that the middle class has evaporated during this time has a lot to do with it.

Capitalism is impossible to maintain without a market full of buyers. Without a large and thriving middle class, that will not be the case. My parents, who would both be over 100 today, saw that movie when they were young. It was called the Great Depression. They told me that I wouldn't want to see it. They told me what it was like.

I understand your point, Ms Vee. In spite of being a corporatist, Mrs Clinton has laudable views on equality before the law. She would be better than Jeb Bush, who, pathetic as it sounds, is the best the Republicans have to offer. There is a great deal of injustice afoot these days. Some of it is social injustice and some of it is economic injustice. Some of it seems more aimed at you, some of might be more aimed at me and quite a bit of it is aimed at both of us at once.

I'll close by saying that although we may agree on much, I still resent your post suggesting that possess some luxury or privilege that I can think about not voting for for a corporatist Democrat over a corporatist Republican. I have no luxuries. I'm a sick old man living on disability in ratty mobile home. I will turn 65 a few days before the 2016 election. I go into a panic whenever Paul Ryan, apparently soon to be Speaker of the House, tells me the country can't afford social security and medicare and that I am in a national hammock or when President Obama speaks warmly of the recommendations of the bipartisan catfood commission he appointed during his first term.

Even if Bernie is elected president, then I will still be hitting the streets in protest of what this country has become under the regime of neoliberalism or Reaganomics or whatever you want to call it. It will feel better, though, if the President is somebody who tells me that is exactly what good citizens should do in these times, rather than some mealy-mouthed pean about the virtues of law and order. And if the police shoot, I'll stand in front and make a pathetic effort to shield all I can. That, I think, would beat starving to death so that the rich can have more and more.

I will not vote for Hillary Clinton. If she wins the nomination I will stay at home on election day and prepare for the ass fucking we will get regardless of who wins.

With Nixon, Reagan and G. W. Bush, the feeling made me utterly sick and dejected and having no hope. Old man Bush was sort of okay...

But as days went by, and with MSNBC, Keith Olberman, Rachel, Randy, Air America, Mike Malloy and some really good Senators and Jimmy Carter fighting for us, we survived. And we had the good programs started by FDR carrying us on their backs, we survived. We survived enough to elect a black man as president, that's as far from the disasters as you can get...some good always comes out of evil, and it will again. Recognizing evil is not always easy but some older folks are getting the hang of it.

I will be the only one who sees what my ballot will look like in the GE. That's the way it's supposed to be, I haven't got a clue what your ballot will look like and it doesn't matter a bit to me. I won't have a moment of angst over whom you vote for nor will I lose a wink of sleep.

All Dem candidates are listed in my OP. This is a response to a post of a similar title.

"the powerful quadquark drives rev to life! time and space bend under the fibrulations of the timerip transfluxors, your adrenaline and stomach reel with the hyperbolic hyperbole and finally, finally!...nothing happens."

about having your job offshored or replaced by an h-1b visaholder:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702780.html

More of this kind of crap?

So tiresome.

I think you should have written it for any D candidate rather than just for Sanders, but I have heard plenty say they won't vote for Hillary and they tend to be Sanders supporters

So many on DU are so full of shit, it gives liberals a bad name. Once the R's select their candidate, our hatred will be focused on that person, and we will rally behind, love, and worship whoever ends up with the D nomination. Same BS happens every 4 years with some people whining that their preferred candidate didn't get the nomination, but they always end up being thrilled with the nominee come election time...despite their previous posts otherwise.

I'm guessing that you believe that a Clinton nomination is somewhere on the range of highly likely to inevitable. If she is nominated, you will then want people who supported other candidates to give their votes, their volunteer time, and their money to Clinton.

Do you think that childish attacks like this one make that post-Convention unity more likely, or less likely?

See, I think it's pretty clear that the net effect would be to make support for Clinton less likely. The silver lining is that the net effect, although adverse, would be very small, because there's been so much of this snarling already that nobody will be much affected by one more nasty post. Still, if the best that can be said for a post is that it will be widely ignored, maybe you should rethink.