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gobears10

(310 posts)
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 07:29 AM Oct 2015

Vox: Bill and Hillary Clinton are lying about DOMA, engaging in historical revisionism

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 09:23 AM - Edit history (2)

This has encouraged both Clintons to recount a version of the DOMA debate in which they were actually helping the cause of equality by forestalling the passage of a Federal Marriage Amendment, which, had it been put in place, would have prevented all the legal and political work that eventually brought marriage equality to all 50 states.

It's a politically convenient story, and it has the virtue of fitting the broad macro facts about how American law and politics developed in the 20-year time span between 1995 and 2015. Unfortunately for the Clintons, a detailed examination of the documentary evidence from the Clinton White House by BuzzFeed's Chris Geidner makes it pretty clear that it's not true. If DOMA ultimately served the role that the Clintons are now attributing to it, it did so largely by coincidence, not as a result of strategy...

Yet faced with the popularity of DOMA and its overwhelming support in Congress, Clinton signed the law and ran radio ads touting his support of it in Southern states. He signed it in the middle of the night, with no cameras present and without a signing ceremony, as if he knew at the time that he would not want it to be part of his legacy, though he did want it to be part of his reelection campaign...

"There is no contemporaneous evidence, however, to support the claim that the Clinton White House considered a possible federal constitutional amendment to be a concern, based on a BuzzFeed News review of the thousands of documents released earlier this year by the Clinton Presidential Library about same-sex couples’ marriage rights and the Defense of Marriage Act. In the documents, which include correspondence from a wide array of White House and Justice Department officials, no one even hints that Bill Clinton’s thinking or actions regarding DOMA were animated by the threat of a federal constitutional amendment..."

But on a bigger level, DOMA is a reminder of the politics of "triangulation" that characterized much of the Clinton years. While Hillary Clinton has heavily invested in an image of herself as a gritty "fighter" for progressive causes, the realities of the mid-1990s were rather different. While Obama-era Republicans have generally pursued a politics of hostage taking and high-stakes confrontation, Clinton-era congressional Republicans were often much more willing to cut deals. The Clinton administration was also very willing to cut deals, signing things like DOMA, the 1996 welfare reform bill, and a 1997 budget agreement that cut capital gains taxes. This spirit of dealmaking largely evaporated when Republicans decided to impeach Clinton. For example, it's widely believed that the impeachment crisis scuttled a nascent Clinton-Gingrich agreement to partially privatize Social Security.

The DOMA episode is a reminder of many liberal leaders' secret fears about the prospect of a new Clinton administration. Namely that far from being fighters, the Clintons are actually inveterate compromisers who might be excessively willing to go along with GOP legislative initiatives if Republicans could bother to set aside their Benghazi inquiries for a few months and come up with some initiatives. The new Clinton line on DOMA casts them as savvy strategists who helped outwit the right, but the historical record seems to show transactional politicians who made a cynical calculus that they had a lot to lose and nothing to gain from opposing DOMA.


Full article: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/10/30/9642602/clinton-doma-constitutional-amendment
18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Vox: Bill and Hillary Clinton are lying about DOMA, engaging in historical revisionism (Original Post) gobears10 Oct 2015 OP
The Clintons are awful. bigwillq Oct 2015 #1
another Hillary bashing thread. stonecutter357 Oct 2015 #2
Put your fingers in your ears and repeat after me, "La-La-La-La-La". Kip Humphrey Oct 2015 #4
If it's wrong, then refute it n/t sarge43 Oct 2015 #6
The LGBT community values our own history over any politician, tell the history honestly or be Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #7
So my memory of Hillary being against gay marriage until a year or two ago is wrong? A Simple Game Oct 2015 #8
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #14
LOL pocoloco Oct 2015 #16
It's not bashing when other opinions are being presented. Bohunk68 Oct 2015 #3
K & R AzDar Oct 2015 #5
I'll believe the Clintons Gman Oct 2015 #9
How does evidence fit into that approach? The Traveler Oct 2015 #11
A lack of evidence of internal discussion makes it false? Gman Oct 2015 #15
K&R for the truth about the Clinton spin. CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #10
Hillary Clinton is right. JackHughes Oct 2015 #12
please go peddle your insulting revisionist history somewhere else ibegurpard Oct 2015 #13
Insulting? JackHughes Oct 2015 #17
KnR! n/t Admiral Loinpresser Nov 2015 #18
 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
7. The LGBT community values our own history over any politician, tell the history honestly or be
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 09:15 AM
Oct 2015

called out for that. It might interest you to know that in the 10 years prior to DOMA several hundred thousand people in the LGBT community died of a virus the right wing laughed about. So your snark toward this subject is like a fart at a funeral.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
8. So my memory of Hillary being against gay marriage until a year or two ago is wrong?
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 09:21 AM
Oct 2015

But if I'm right it doesn't seem to match up with what they are saying about DOMA does it?

Or should we say she was for it before she was against it before she was for it? Do you really want to support a candidate that requires a scorecard to keep up with? Instead of as in baseball saying what inning is it, with Hillary do you say what year is it?

Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #2)

Bohunk68

(1,364 posts)
3. It's not bashing when other opinions are being presented.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 08:43 AM
Oct 2015

This corresponds with my memory of what occurred. My partner and I discussed this a lot when it was going on. We were both GLBT activists.

 

The Traveler

(5,632 posts)
11. How does evidence fit into that approach?
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:22 AM
Oct 2015

Because the analysis of documents the article **claims** was performed provides no evidence to suggest that Clinton's support of DOMA was motivated by concerns regarding a constitutional amendment. And I have to believe that if that consideration were a driving factor, there would be some evidence to that effect.

I'm not a big fan of historical revisionism ... though it is Standard Operating Procedure in the Republican Party. I would really hate to see the Democratic Party or any of its leaders resort to the same method. Clinton support of DOMA remains disturbing to many. If the rationale really was driven by concerns regarding a possible constitutional amendment, then it is incumbent on the Clintons to document this new historical information.

Trav

Gman

(24,780 posts)
15. A lack of evidence of internal discussion makes it false?
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:29 AM
Oct 2015

Even though someone who had those discussions says it's not. I would think that if someone in the Clinton WH and even Congress who would have been part of those discussions came out and said they never had discussions about the threat of an amendment would be much stronger evidence than lack of documentation. Why would you document those discussions? The article is just an exercise in ASSUME.

JackHughes

(166 posts)
12. Hillary Clinton is right.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:23 AM
Oct 2015

The essay is incorrect, Hillary Clinton is right. DOMA was indeed a strategy to prevent the passage of a constitutional amendment preventing same-sex marriage which was gaining steam at the time, and it worked. Imagine how difficult -- if not impossible -- the recent advances would have been if roadblocked by a constitutional amendment.

Remember that Bill Clinton campaigned on the right for gays to serve in the military, and was hammered even for the tentative achievement of "Don't Ask Don't Tell."

JackHughes

(166 posts)
17. Insulting?
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:40 AM
Oct 2015

What you describe as "insulting revisionist history" was my memory of the actual events as they were happening back in the 1990s.

If you were "insulted" by that, too bad. Politics can be complicated. But as all will agree, DOMA ended the push for a Federal Marriage Amendment and things worked out for the best.

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