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Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 09:54 PM Oct 2015

Can a person honestly support the death penalty and

racial justice?

I think the answer is no, the death penalty is inextricably linked to racial injustice and anyone claiming to support both is lying.

Sander's position on both issues is consistent, Clinton is not being honest.

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Can a person honestly support the death penalty and (Original Post) Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 OP
It is up to the individual to decide yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #1
Imo, no since the death penalty is inherently racist. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #2
The death penalty has been, and still is, used in homogeneous societies 72DejaVu Oct 2015 #9
Nice spin, but it is inherently racist in this country - which is where Hillary is running. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #11
Like China and fucking Saudi Arabia. Something to aim for! TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #21
Yes, they can 72DejaVu Oct 2015 #3
Oh sure I forgot to restrict support for the Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #8
If you don't believe we can improve society 72DejaVu Oct 2015 #10
Finding a way to have the state kill people more equally isn't an improvement Scootaloo Oct 2015 #13
I don't believe the state should be killing people 72DejaVu Oct 2015 #14
It'd make more sense to just eliminate the practice wholly Scootaloo Oct 2015 #15
The death penalty has been proven to azmom Oct 2015 #12
Thanks for posting the obvious. Not to mention Hillary's willingness to hack away at SS/Medicare. Todays_Illusion Oct 2015 #4
I have always thought it was racial/class issue. LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #5
If her belief in racial justice is genuine, azmom Oct 2015 #6
I think we need to go deeper. bravenak Oct 2015 #7
Of course not, the death penalty is more racist than killer cops jfern Oct 2015 #16
I think Obama supports racial justice Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #17
How about POTUS iandhr Oct 2015 #18
No. Supporting the death penalty certainly runs contrary to supporting racial justice. dflprincess Oct 2015 #19
I don't agree with your association. delrem Oct 2015 #20
What country you live in? Been racist here the whole fucking time so stop peddling excuses. TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #22
Canada. It's racist up here, too, and I'm not excusing anything. delrem Oct 2015 #23
Tell it to the ACLU: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #24
If you eliminate the death penalty, as in Canada and other civilized states, delrem Oct 2015 #26
So you'll retract your comments about the op, then? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #27
no delrem Nov 2015 #30
Latest anti-Clinton dog whistle. George II Oct 2015 #25
How is this a "dog whistle"? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #28
Look, if some politician likes to execute people, good for them. delrem Nov 2015 #32
Wait wut??? Kalidurga Nov 2015 #40
Um you might want to look up the meaning of the term "dog whistle". Warren Stupidity Nov 2015 #41
Nope. Anyone who thinks that a white person who kills a black person Nye Bevan Oct 2015 #29
Anybody who supports the death penalty is either ignorant or human trash. BlueJazz Nov 2015 #31
Nope. nt Live and Learn Nov 2015 #33
One has little to do with the other quakerboy Nov 2015 #34
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #38
I would tend to agree quakerboy Nov 2015 #39
KnR! n/t Admiral Loinpresser Nov 2015 #35
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #36
No! They cannot! sabrina 1 Nov 2015 #37

72DejaVu

(1,545 posts)
9. The death penalty has been, and still is, used in homogeneous societies
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:03 PM
Oct 2015

so, it is not inherently racist.

The current justice system in America is inherently racist, so the death penalty is, as part of that system as well. But the justice system could be, and obviously should be, reformed.

(And, btw, I'm against the death penalty personally)

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
11. Nice spin, but it is inherently racist in this country - which is where Hillary is running.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:04 PM
Oct 2015

I want to elect someone who will appoint anti-death penalty Supreme Court judges.

Murdering prisoners is morally indefensible.

72DejaVu

(1,545 posts)
3. Yes, they can
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 09:58 PM
Oct 2015

A person can certainly believe that the current racial injustice can be removed from the system (it may be unlikely, but it is not impossible) and that, in a fair system, the death penalty would only be applied in a fair manner.



Of course, it's a lot easier to just call anyone who agrees with you a liar, so, carry on.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
8. Oh sure I forgot to restrict support for the
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:02 PM
Oct 2015

death penalty to "as it exists in reality", not some fantasy world version. Good point, "my bad"

72DejaVu

(1,545 posts)
14. I don't believe the state should be killing people
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:08 PM
Oct 2015

but if they are, I'd certainly want to see inequality in that administration eliminated, wouldn't you?

azmom

(5,208 posts)
12. The death penalty has been proven to
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:05 PM
Oct 2015

Be unfair. That's the reality of today. I would think that realizing that, she would come out and oppose it.

LiberalArkie

(15,719 posts)
5. I have always thought it was racial/class issue.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:01 PM
Oct 2015

Poor blacks always get the death penalty next are the poor whites.

azmom

(5,208 posts)
6. If her belief in racial justice is genuine,
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:01 PM
Oct 2015

She would also oppose the death penalty as the death penalty has been found to be applied in a racist manner.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
7. I think we need to go deeper.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:02 PM
Oct 2015

It begins with the prosecutors and judges and grand juries. Often they are all white, and it causes the application of justice to be tainted from the get go.
More often indictments are handed down by a white grand jury, to a white proscutor and wite judge, the defense is white, the witnesses white, the defendant black. What woukd have hapoened to that black man arrested for burglary of his neighbor's house if that little four year old girl had not told that the robbers had white skin? Years in jail, life fucked up. How many times has that happened where we had no honest little white child who was not taught to hate? We have no clue. But I think the reason we even still have a death penalty is because we have black people here. We need to fix the entire system.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
16. Of course not, the death penalty is more racist than killer cops
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:11 PM
Oct 2015

42% of those on death row are black, but only 30% of those killed by the police are black.

iandhr

(6,852 posts)
18. How about POTUS
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:15 PM
Oct 2015

His exact words were

"I support the death penalty in theory but in particle it is troubling"

dflprincess

(28,080 posts)
19. No. Supporting the death penalty certainly runs contrary to supporting racial justice.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:44 PM
Oct 2015

And, given the number of death row inmates who have been exonerated, I don't understand how anyone can support it.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
20. I don't agree with your association.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 11:11 PM
Oct 2015

You're simply associating capital punishment with 'race' issues. Your argument doesn't hold since you didn't give any supporting evidence.
Capital punishment is as old as humankind.
How we deal with it is as old as humankind.

I don't know why you want to conflate these two different issues.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
23. Canada. It's racist up here, too, and I'm not excusing anything.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 11:35 PM
Oct 2015

We don't have capital punishment up here, but nevertheless it's inherently racist.
These are different things.
I don't see how you can claim that tried to excuse the existence of racism here there or anywhere.
That isn't what I was saying.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
26. If you eliminate the death penalty, as in Canada and other civilized states,
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 11:51 PM
Oct 2015

the problem of a racist history persists.

So, you've got the death penalty in the USA and you've got a racist culture and the result is a foregone conclusion.
You've got a big problem.
I think it's a good first step to eliminate the death penalty.
I think if the USA can't figure that out, then no, it isn't likely to be able to think through more complex issues that owe in particular to a racist heritage.


beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
27. So you'll retract your comments about the op, then?
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 11:53 PM
Oct 2015
I don't agree with your association.

You're simply associating capital punishment with 'race' issues.
Your argument doesn't hold since you didn't give any supporting evidence.
Capital punishment is as old as humankind.
How we deal with it is as old as humankind.

I don't know why you want to conflate these two different issues.


delrem

(9,688 posts)
30. no
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:05 AM
Nov 2015

I explained myself well enough for my conscience.
I differentiated the issues well enough to satisfy myself.

I figure I'm innocent of whatever further charges.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
28. How is this a "dog whistle"?
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 11:55 PM
Oct 2015

Do you support the death penalty, George?

Because a lot of us have always been vehemently against it.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
32. Look, if some politician likes to execute people, good for them.
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:07 AM
Nov 2015

But to point it out isn't a "dog whistle"

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
40. Wait wut???
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:51 AM
Nov 2015

A dog whistle is a subtle jab at a candidate that one can whistle past and claim they aren't um whatever they are accused of. I am pretty sure Warren isn't going to pretend to not be anti-death penalty and he is probably not going to claim this isn't a jab at a candidate. Are you sure you know what a dog whistle is?

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
41. Um you might want to look up the meaning of the term "dog whistle".
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 08:12 AM
Nov 2015

Here is a clue: when a statement explicitly references race, by definition it cannot be a dog whistle.

Since you aren't going to look it up:


Dog-whistle politics is political messaging employing coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has an additional, different or more specific resonance for a targeted subgroup. The phrase is often used as a pejorative, because of the inherently deceptive nature of the practice and because the dog-whistle messages are frequently distasteful to the general populace. The analogy is to a dog whistle, whose high-frequency whistle is heard by dogs but inaudible to humans.

wiki

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
29. Nope. Anyone who thinks that a white person who kills a black person
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 11:57 PM
Oct 2015

is as likely to be executed as a black person who kills a white person, is an utter moron.

It is extremely disappointing that Obama still supports the death penalty given this horrible racial bias. Also I am disappointed in Hillary on this issue and respect O'Malley and Sanders for their stance.

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
34. One has little to do with the other
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:41 AM
Nov 2015

Except insofar as the one is enacted by a society lacking the other.

Can a person honestly support racial justice and our nations manner of use of the death penalty? no.

But the death penalty itself(while worth opposing on its own merits) is not inherently racially unjust. We are more likely to all manner of bad things to non white people. That doesn't make all bad things we do to people independently racist. That just makes us as a group racist in our enaction of independently bad things.

Response to quakerboy (Reply #34)

Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

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