2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Starts to Name Names to Set Himself Apart From Hillary Clinton
Well here we go! I think many of us saw this coming. Go get her Bernie!
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-starts-names-set-hillary-clinton/story?id=34911867
Let me tell you a word about Social Security. I understand Secretary Clinton was here the other day. I think she and I have a strong disagreement on this, he began, going on to talk about his proposal for maintaining and expanding Social Security by scrapping the cap on taxable income. By comparison, Clinton has only said she would consider such an idea.
For months, unless specifically asked about his primary opponent, Sanders did not mention Clinton while campaigning. Her name only came up in passing during Sanders stump speech. This campaign is not about Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton. ... This campaign is about you, he often said.
That all changed with a pivotal night for Sanders at Iowa Democratic Partys famed Jefferson Jackson Dinner last week. At the event, Sanders delivered his most cutting critique of Clinton to date, albeit without naming her name. Rather, he ticked through a series of past, key political moments when the two of them differed -- from the Iraq War to the signing of the Defense of Marriage Act -- in order to argue that he was the true progressive. In the days immediately following the dinner, he told reporters it was important to show voters the differences between himself and Clinton.
According to Sanderss senior staff, they had begun a second phase of their campaign: the persuasion phase. Instead of simply rallying his core supporters and boosting his name recognition, Sanders would actively seek to win over undecided Democratic and independent voters, by precisely articulating a contrast with Hillary Clinton.
More at http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-starts-names-set-hillary-clinton/story?id=34911867
Renew Deal
(81,873 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 2, 2015, 04:36 PM - Edit history (1)
Bernie must not find her that objectionable.
the only place she belongs is where she came from, the board of walmart.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Personally, I'm hoping that's some variant of "out to pasture."
(incoming accusations of sexism in 3...2...1...)
Response to Jester Messiah (Reply #26)
JTFrog This message was self-deleted by its author.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)Thank You.
That needed to be said.
bvf
(6,604 posts)Blind hero worship?
OK, then!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)The comparison to "American Idol" is apt, but this goes much further. Disturbingly so. Almost the sort of sentiment...
I'll stop there.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)"Damn it there will be a woman President before I die even if it kills me" thing going on with a lot of them. But it may just be me thinking that.
On edit: But I do like the American Idol thing too.
Beast Boy
(15 posts)usually found on plowing horses...
Hmmm. Okay
merrily
(45,251 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)the downright ridiculous (even alarming) statements emanating from Camp Weathervane these days, that's for sure.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)worship.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I understand that women and children there could use some help, and I don't doubt clinton's dedication on those causes
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)jalan48
(13,886 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,341 posts)I wish there was a 'rim-shot' smiley.
robbob
(3,538 posts)1monster
(11,012 posts)Try on another one.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Didn't want any thin skinned folk bleeding out. Safety first.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
merrily
(45,251 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)It's time Clinton be called upon to answer for her history.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)See that as attacks. Weird even.
I'm very glad he's showing the differences. Especially since #HillarysSoBernie lately
femmedem
(8,207 posts)then you support her policies, and would welcome the differentiation between the two candidates.
Instead, it's being stated these are attacks. Interesting.
Response to femmedem (Reply #5)
Post removed
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)From which day? HRH spins like a weathervane in a typhoon.
I am confused.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)If trying to take care of our least instead of our most for a change is an attack, then hand me a pitchfork.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Sort of unreal
merrily
(45,251 posts)P.S. Don't bring a pitchfork to gun fight.
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)Bernie probably asks general people in Burlington about what their problems are and what he can do as their Senator.
HRC more than likely asks a focus group at Goldman Sachs or her friends what she can do to help them.
We never see who Bernie meets and talks to because he doesn't consider it as a news event needed to be publicized.
Just different personalities.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Interesting, what each thinks is news worthy
merrily
(45,251 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Omg!
merrily
(45,251 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Well, totally believable. Just, wow!
merrily
(45,251 posts)she came around to his view.
Congrats on your new position. We love it!
marym625
(17,997 posts)There's always some excuse as to why it was changed that has zero to do with truth. What the pollster tell her is good.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)Marty McGraw
(1,024 posts)♫'Take it Easy Baby...'♫
concreteblue
(626 posts)eom
Marty McGraw
(1,024 posts)Response to Marty McGraw (Reply #17)
Beast Boy This message was self-deleted by its author.
merrily
(45,251 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)at the rate of the rest of us, or starving granny?
kristopher
(29,798 posts)Poeradley
(20 posts)all the food grannie's eaten over the years vs an 18 year old trump fan, clearly she has had more than him, and he deserves his fair share too!
Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #6)
Snotcicles This message was self-deleted by its author.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)kicking ass then taking names.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)18 year old persons fair share. He is going to get old some day.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Just wondering if that's a phrse that's on the accepted list.
Poeradley
(20 posts)when speaking about the anointed one are Shkler, and shklim.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)can only be motivated by the most base and brutal sexism. Didn't you get the memo?
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)It's just common sense.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Also crap.
murielm99
(30,764 posts)Iowa Jefferson Jackson dinner?
Do you mean the night all his people got up and left so rudely, after Bernie was finished speaking?
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)If I just listened to Bernie why do I need to stay to listen to Bernie lite?
murielm99
(30,764 posts)Those supporters understood nothing about common courtesy and protocol.
Bernie's supporters just showed how rude they were, and how little they care about being able to attend an important Democratic Party event. Of course, since Bernie is not a Democrat, and his supporters show their rudeness all over the Internet, I am not surprised.
grasswire
(50,130 posts).....is this continual scolding of Bernie by Hillary supporters a CLASSIST reaction?
Bernie with his sleeves rolled up and his populism and his Brooklyn accent vs. WASP Hillary, Ivy League grad who schmoozes with the 1 percent and ooozes entitlement?
Is that what this is all about?????????? Classism?
He's rude. His supporters are boors. Not fit to attend an IMPORTANT event.
Holy shit.
I reject snobbery. That's not what the Democratic party is about. Never has been. NEVER should be.
Booooo!
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)They should have rented limos.
murielm99
(30,764 posts)You are the one who brought classism into this, not me. Manners are common to all people, regardless of so-called class or income. You are inventing.
My daughter attended that event when she was a college student. She was a caucus leader. She also went to the Harkin steak fry.
We are farmers, not Ivy Leaguers.
His supporters are rude. I reject rudeness.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Hillary is an Ivy Leaguer. Did you not know?
murielm99
(30,764 posts)She connects with all sorts of people across all demographics. Her poll numbers prove it.
You are the one raising class issues. Why are you so sensitive about this?
grasswire
(50,130 posts)We fight AGAINST classism.
She may connect with all sorts of people (although I have no memory of seeing her with poor folk or homeless folk, for example), but her supporters are beginning to smell of snobbery, IMO.
murielm99
(30,764 posts)It seems to me that he has an excellent education, with a degree from the University of Chicago.
He's not exactly a hard-hat wearing guy with a union card in his back pocket. I have worked with a number of those people over the years that I have been a Democratic activist. My husband, who farmed before he retired, always had to have an outside job. He was a printer as well as a farmer. He was first GCIU, and later a Teamster.
I think this classism claim is just a new meme to use against Hillary. You have tried it out, and it is not working. Look at all the union endorsements she is getting.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)I guess you have not paid any iota of attention to him. Ever.
I pay more attention to Democrats, who support working people actively. I try to keep an eye on Republicans, who are trying to undercut working people.
Bernie is an Independent from a small state with a sparse population. Although I have always liked him, he has never been on my radar as someone helping us very much. He is insignificant.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Why doesn't Hillary rein you rude supporters in? See?
Bernie is the furthest thing from insignificant. Especially in this primary campaign. Everyone knows Hillary would be running much further to the right and would not be trying to convince us she's a progressive if it wasn't for Bernie.
But nevermind. You've shown your hand when you used the "he's not a Dem" meme. Your whole post was a smear against him.
murielm99
(30,764 posts)I am stating the truth. He is not a Democrat.
Defending my candidate is not rude. You people are the ones who started name-calling in this thread, about classism and the like.
It is simply the truth that Bernie's supporters have gained attention on various Internet sites, Facebook, Twitter, for their rudeness to people who support Hillary. It has been reported by various media outlets and commentators. DU is not the only place overrun by rude Bernie supporters.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Typical DU Hillary supporter. You whine about what Bernie supporters are doing and then you go and say the shit you said in your previous post.
As to the rest of your post, two words and a link:
Clinton Cave
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=647936
Stop projecting. (bonus words!)
merrily
(45,251 posts)You people are the ones who started name-calling in this thread, about classism and the like.
Since when is one poster "you people?"
It is simply the truth that Bernie's supporters have gained attention on various Internet sites, Facebook, Twitter, fortheir rudeness to people who support Hillary.
No, that is not the truth at all. Some Bernie supporters do that and some Hillary supporters are rude to those who support Bernie. That' truth.
Not every broad brush negative that pops into your head about Bernie and his supporters is "the truth." In fact, probably zero of them are. Sadly, you seem unable to see that.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Ahhh.... it's the GOP meme from back in June again!
Why do Hillary Supporters keep championing GOP memes?
RI is a smaller state. Shall we ignore everyone from there MORE than those from VT?
WY has less people (I believe) than VT, but is much bigger. How does it fit in with this hierarchy?
And what does it have to do with anything?
" He is insignificant." ...to you. Not to VTers.... or real progressives.
Thanks for you sage insights on someone who is not even on your radar!
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And with so much projection!
merrily
(45,251 posts)is more significant than, say, community health centers or an audit of the fed or a bill benefiting veterans? Yeah, Bernie wrote those and got them passed. Meanwhile, Hillary was naming post offices and commemorating the anniversary of the revolution and trying, but failing, to get two unconstitutional flag "desecration" bills she wrote passed.
Bernie never helped us much? Saying stuff like that only shows you haven't educated yourself. You're just posting one negative after another and hoping... Actually, what are you hoping those posts will do?
merrily
(45,251 posts)No one said anything about blue collar. That is not the only aspect of classism. But he sure has walked a lot of picket lines.
If you ever post anything other than bs about Bernie and his supporters, I've apparently missed it. You may want to post more on substance.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)++++++++++
grasswire
(50,130 posts)An elitist, entitled POV by Hillary supporters portraying Bernie and his supporters as rabble.
That POV should be pointed out and repudiated!!
frylock
(34,825 posts)I must have missed your posts condemning her for such rude behavior.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)omg... so pissy. THAT's what you take away from the policy differences?
No wonder our country is in so much trouble. No one cares about policy anymore. Just personalities and hurt feelings. We are actually worried about our very democracy. Why should people stay and listen to someone who would put the final nail in the coffin? Elect Hillary and get all the 'free trade' deals passed and then our democracy and even our constitution won't mean squat any more.
murielm99
(30,764 posts)very widely discussed, reflects on your candidate. Not reigning them in shows a lack of character and organizational ability on his part.
If he cannot get his supporters to behave, how can he do anything with Congress, or some of the tough overseas governments he could face? Not that I believe he will ever get this far, but it is a valid question.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)so please let me see all the posts where you complain about their rudeness. And please, how about her rudeness? Race baiting in a campaign against Obama. Putting out the sexist meme in this campaign.
So tell me, why are you only discussing Bernie supporters and not policy? And have you responded to the post where someone pointed out she didn't follow 'protocal' by not marching with supporters?
I agree, I could be more polite, but after reading all the smears on here posted by Hillary supporters and knowing that many of them post on the Clinton Cave site where they spew pure hatred at Bernie and his supporters, specifically DUers by name, I can't take any of these petty complaints seriously.
I'm sorry for the tone, but it's NOTHING compared to what Hillary supporters do. Truth be told, I actually was going to self-delete had it not been responded to, but oh well. I still stand by what I've said even if I could have said it better.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Are you really going to attempt a broad brush smear of millions because of a few rude posters on the Internet?
If so, your attempt failed.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Only by Hillary cultists.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Bernie, no matter how utterly nonsensical it is, is not impressing anyone. Maybe save it for the Cave, where it's red meat. Here it's more like old fish.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Even if it meant missing your bus.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Why stick around for filler?
merrily
(45,251 posts)Is Hillary's multimillion dollar world going to crumble because Bernie's supporters, for whatever reason, didn't stay to were interested in whatever her positions du jour were?
Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, jobs, NSA, constitutional rights.
We're choosing a Presidential candidate, someone who may become the most powerful person in the world, and this is the kind of detritus on which we remain riveted day after day? When someone's non professional politician supporters left a dinner, the first one of its kind they'd ever attended? Really?
Tell anyone who raises this again to piss off.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)The event started very, very late due to extra security. It was a bit out of their control, to be honest. It wasn't as if they walked out on Hillary's speech because they didn't want to hear from her.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)You'll ruin the ""poor put upon" Hillary meme.
It's delicate, like the War on Christmas meme.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)postatomic
(1,771 posts)I'm all for increasing the income level for collecting SS, but scraping it all together is just words floating around in the clouds.
The Sanders Campaign has become reactionary. I'm surprised they haven't gone after HRC for her vote on the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.
druidity33
(6,446 posts)This is where i've had the biggest problems with Obama. You don't start from the compromise position... you start from the PIE in the SKY! You'll get whittled down, of course, but you're in a stronger position afterwards dammit! This isn't reactionary, this is good politics!
postatomic
(1,771 posts)If you start with PIE in the SKY proposals you risk losing everything. People with a contrary position will see this as a sign of insincerity. Neither of us know what President Obama has gone through when he's forced to work with Republicans. The reactionary comment was in response to the "new" shift to the persuasion phase. Generally speaking you are either a Reactionary or you are Pro-Active.
A Reactionary will see things like... oh I don't know.... let's say really bad polling numbers and say "shit, we need to do something". It's just my opinion but I think the Sanders Campaign thought they could just have some big rallies and everything would be peachy. Then they thought the Debates would give Sanders the exposure he needed to be accepted with open arms by the Public. We both know that didn't go so well. Bottom line; a Reactionary really doesn't have a plan and a Pro-Active does.
druidity33
(6,446 posts)postatomic
(1,771 posts)See how the PIE in the SKY thing works.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)druidity33
(6,446 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)druidity33
(6,446 posts)without violating the confidentiality agreements i've signed are that i've been a contract committee member and an unpaid consultant. I've used IBB (Interest Based Bargaining) methods and traditional "adversarial" bargaining. For one contract we met weekly for near 14 months.
I maintain that without presenting the "Pie in the Sky" your partners in the negotiation will never really understand where the middle ground is. When you begin negotiations from the compromise position, you inevitably compromise further.
apologies for my previous terse response...
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)He suggests lifting the cap for incomes above $250k/yr creating a donut hole from $118K to $250K where there would be no change. So if you make more than $250k/yr you would pay more into SS for income above that amount.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)Do you know how Social Security works? Half is paid by the Employee and Half is paid by the Employer. It's the same with Medicare Payments. 100% of Withholding Tax is paid for by the Employee. Putting that extra tax burden on businesses isn't an idea that would ever see the light of day.
Then there is the Tax Code. Someone making over $250K would be taxed again on Social Security disbursements if they earn in excess of the amount(s) and how they are calculated. We would have to re-write the Tax Code for Social Security Payments. Another idea that would have a difficult time seeing the light.
Plans are great and all but if you don't think them all the way through........ nothing gets done. It sounds good because anyone who makes over $250K can afford to pay extra. Or, so the story goes..........
I'd be happy with a 5% to 10% increase over the current income cap.
marym625
(17,997 posts)It's fine constantly.
Why should someone that makes $125k stop paying into social security at $118k instead of people that make. $40k pay more?
Raising the cap makes a hell of a lot more sense than increasing contributions for those that make $40k or less.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The Iraq War vote was indeed compared to "another Gulf of Tonkin" resolution. Senator Byrd, if I'm not mistaken. Though what that has to do with Social Security is beyond me.
As far as Social Security (or anything else) you don't start with the very least for which you might be willing to settle. You don't even start with what you realistically think is possible. You start, at the very least, with what you'd like to get and,. ideally, with more than that.
Calling people reactionary for posting what they'd like to see happen is bizarre. You might want to look at that.
* The Gulf of Tonkin reference was a play on the dated/aged "issues" posted by the OP. It is called being sarcastic.
** The only thing that I'm really very concerned about with regards to Social Security is having the Republicans trash it... and privatize it. I'd like to hear how Sanders plans on getting this lofty program passed. I don't expect you to answer that. Just voicing my concerns, the same concerns I've already outlined.
*** The only people that I called reactionary is the Sanders Campaign. NOT his supporters. NOT any DUer. I'll stand by that comment and I don't need to 'have a look at it'. Again; a Reactionary is someone who doesn't have a plan. They just 'react' to whatever comes up. Please don't morph this into something it is not.
Thanks!
merrily
(45,251 posts)came close to the truth with it anyway.
How does any President get a program passed? Senator Bernie has a better record of getting legislation that he wrote passed than did Senator Hillary. I wonder how someone who said Republicans were her enemies and the ones she was most proud of having would do getting things passed anyway.
The Sanders campaign is not reacting to whatever comes along. That would be Hillary.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts). . . very apparent.
Hillary is far more mediocre than Bernie.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)FloridaBlues
(4,008 posts)Not surprised he's going down any road he thinks will help him but I don't think the voters are feeling the Bern like his supporters want them too.
merrily
(45,251 posts)is Hillary. None of the other four has done that.
Yes, Bernie is a politician. Duh. He's a U.S. Senator. By definition, he is a politician. But, no, he is not a politician like any other and you know it. If he were, you wouldn't even need to claim that.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts):appause:
sgtbenobo
(327 posts)....as long as you are up.
thank you, sabrina.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Perhaps someone might also mention to Hillary about not running a negative campaign. Implying that your opponent who has spent his life fighting for equality is a sexist is a pretty vile smear.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts).... is not "going negative".
Going negative would be like insisting "shouting" is somehow a misogynistic thing.
Or that going to the USSR during Glasnost and Perestroika after getting married was a Commie Honeymoon.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)amen
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Ninety three percent. Ninety Three Percent. NINETY THREE PERCENT!!!!