can claim Clinton is "going scorched earth. "

That is one of the funniest claims I have seen here.

"Someone explain this shit to me."

Logic: When one starts with a completely false premise, the rest will follow suit.

Then you're clearly not who is affected.

Whatever she does, you'll be pleased. That's fine. But it's not about you. Clinton has to appeal to the entire party, generate enthusiasm, get people out to vote who are ambivalent or indifferent.

What about her racism/sexism/homophobia strategies leave you feeling like she's energizing the people who aren't already all about her?

Such an odd thing to say.

/ignore.

For explaining that LGBT people can pass and thus avoid discrimination?

Luckily, I quoted it in my reply to her, so her deletion couldn't erase the comment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=714653

Enjoy!

(I'm sorry you're being stalked. People have told me you're getting targeted by deranged people here).

That's pretty damn low. No wonder she deleted it - that would have been a hide.

And yup, take care of yourself too.

Like, seriously, what the hell . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=767356

Start there and move down.

But perhaps this could be a moment for humility and grace...a little atonement and reflection is always good for the soul.

I do not see how stating a basic historical fact of skin color racism necessitates an apology.

If you knew our community, you'd know how heinous that sentiment is.

But, Jesus Christ, you're doubling down!

Seriously. Who taught you the words coming out of your mouth were ok?

You can stop talking at any time. I know your friends will never tell you otherwise (because they're right there with you), but no. Stop. You want people to be sensitive to your issues. Could you be sensitive to ours?

Farewell.

And if that won't work for you, put us both on ignore!

I can not imagine more pusillanimous behavior to insult somebody and not let them respond...It's also puerile behavior...It reminds me of being in junior high when somebody figured out the best way to piss somebody off is when they got off the school bus, give them the finger without looking at them so they couldn't respond.

LOL ... /ignore .... a weak, yet hilarious announcement of impotence.

The difference is I don't kick people in the groin before sending them on their way.

Pure pusillanimity.

Do you know how pissed a lot of gay people are about that?

Hint: Lots.

If you don't think that's pretty scorched earth with LGBTers, you don't know us very well.

...not offended by Clinton's DOMA excuse at all

Not offended by her comment.

But I can't wait until we have a candidate who supported marriage since day one, we don't currently.

Whatever you do,do not accept any apples from her. She's eeeevvvvviiiillll.


For the sarcasm impaired:

You're being very flip about a politician who just defended DOMA. in 2015.

and do not follow at all from the posts they are purporting to answer, right? That's the game here, right?)

Uhm, I only have left over snickers from Halloween. Is that ok?

This is one of the least negative elections. Maybe things will change but probably not by much.

how deeply confused many here are. I support Sanders but I defended her extensively on DU from unfair attacks, now I feel like she kicked me in the gut for absolutely no reason. For sport. And her base is just stone simple, unable to comprehend how they sound.

I always planned on voting for her in the general. I assume she will be our nominee.

But with those DOMA remarks floating out there, unaccounted for, with no apology?

Nope. No way. Not in this lifetime.

Don't complain when Democrats say they won't.

Because you don't care about the Democratic Party's fortunes. Just Hillary.

if by chance she happens to be the nominee, she can not win without the support of all of us..

You do realize that DU represents about 00000000000000000000000.1% of Democrats?

I was referring to those who support Bernie and those who support O'Malley.......we are all paying attention to what is going on and she continues to alienate us..not very smart...bill clinton she ain't that is for sure

Hint: you.

Now let me spend all of my free time wrestling with you.

I sometimes wonder if half this board has actually spoken to gay people.

to have gay family members talk about gay people in condescending language.

And you know what? When I was new to this board and younger, it seemed important to me.

Now, 12 years later and God knows how old, I can't be bothered. I chuckle and move on at the high schoolishness of it all.

DU is the only place on the internet (that I have found) where you get MOST of the time strong and vigorous support for 100% liberal ideas and proposals.

Which doesn't mean it's perfect, of course. It has weak spots, and gay issues is DEFINITELY one weak chink in the armor.

Which is why I find the LGBT stuff so entertaining. Because people clearly don't have gay friends or family - at least, not any they actually talk to, so they just throw down amorphous understandings of our issues without having bothered with consulting us.

It's a rollicking good time.

You didn't need all the extra zeros.

000000000000000000.1% = 0.1% just so you know.

Wow.

If you say she took a shot when not needed in any way I will say that is exactly what she did. Even if I really tried to get informed on this I wouldn't get to your level of knowledge here. Obviously it isn't just that. I have never seen you make a claim that wasn't backed up. I believe I can tell by the "tone" of your post that she has truly disgusted you here. That might be the wrong word but I think it gets the point across that I see your tone isn't that of a simple "wow, she really made a dumb comment there."

"And her base is just stone simple, unable to comprehend how they sound."

I do take a little issue at that. You have to admit the intricacies over what happened with DOMA aren't something all of us understand. My education in that area is almost completely based off your thoughts. I simply trust you to be fair in this area. Ignorance and the inability to comprehend are not the same. I do see that your referenced comprehension in the way they sound, but I think it is more a true lack of knowledge that leads to them/me sounding like that. I will say in this area I am guilty of the former, not the latter. You are also making it as if one side is better on this. It is blatantly obvious to me we all have pox on our house. Well, maybe not you. But the proverbial "we" sure do. That is not acceptance of the current state of being on my part.

I only put this because I have been missing in just about all of those threads. That is the case because I am simply uneducated. You posted something to me the other day that made me back up some. I appreciate that. If you find time, can you direct me to one op or post that puts this into understandable terms. Thanks.

There are so many ways she could have responded but she did what she did. I really don't get it.
People in this thread are making light of the OP and simply abstaining from any sort of empathy. It's predictable. But hey, Bernie supporters or people currently identified as such also do the nasty slams at LGBT and African Americans. It's not all on one side.

Part of what bothers me is that Bernie supporters are being aggressively characterized unfairly by people whose own posting history often reeks of bias. I have big issues with that.

There's not a lot to understand about it.

Yes, some progressive "heroes" got caught up and voted for it. It's a black mark on their records, and those of them still alive should apologize profoundly for it.

But, Hillary Clinton wasn't a representative then. She had no vote in Congress. She doesn't need to apologize for it. It wasn't her Act. And yet, she felt the need to come out and say, "Yeah, it's fine." WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

What. The. Fuck. Who apologizes for something that she was not a part of? The answer, of course, is that she wants to run on her husband's record and so she wants to whitewash what her husband did.

Ok then. If she needs to answer for Bill, not only did she fuck up on DOMA (in spades), but she needs to explain the HIV travel ban.

That's the deal. Her First Lady status is a qualification as long as she can explain to the rest of us why the anti-gay policies were ok.

#hillarysogay




And isn't it funny how she "evolved" on the issue of gay marriage when it became politically convenient, but still isn't enough of a grown-up to just come out and admit she was fucking WRONG last time around? Makes you wonder about the sincerity of said "evolution"....

Big +1!

So she can't make it about issues. It's that simple.

Obama'ing her.

To prevent another Obama, she went crazy early. That's all I've got.

then Sen. Obama....how did that work out for ya?

She cannot win the general election. A lot of Dems dislike her or at best are luke warm and will stay at home or otherwise be busy on election day and the Republicans hate her and will show up in droves to vote against her.

The polls can't be counted on , look at Romney and yesterdays KY Gov race.

explanation also. I don't get the lack of critical thinking her supporters are displaying. Blind support is deadly.

they see the replay of 08 happening before their eyes. also, the clintons are all about the clintons and getting power. they don't give a shit about much else but power. its that simple

That's her platform. Winning at all cost.

As much as I like Obama, I have to say his term has been a disaster for the Democratic Party nationally. While he was winning two presidential elections by huge margins (due primarily to his personal popularity and his oratorical skills), he wasn't pulling down ticket Democrats into office with him.

If Obama with all his personal popularity and charisma couldn't persuade voters to elect Democratic senators, congressmen and governors, how the hell can we expect Hillary Clinton, with zero people skills and speaking ability, plus a reputation for being somewhat less than truthful, to pull Democratic candidates into office?

I don't believe she's electable, but what good can a democratic president do with a veto proof republican majority in the senate and a. 60-40 split in the house. She'll spend four years fending off impeachment attempts and nothing will be accomplished.

I can't believe we've learned nothing in the past eight years. It's time to clean house in the DNC, DSCC, and DCCC and start looking for candidates who can help the party and the people, instead of just advancing themselves.

4-8 years of fending off a Republican Congress.

The Democratic Party is weirdly susceptible to celebrity. Look, I'm not going to be a hypocrite. I was all in for Obama from the 2008 primaries until election. But the man wasn't transformative. He got into office and immediately started playing games. He'll go down as a kind of pre-Civil War president. Mediocre, who did nothing to stave off the obviously incoming collapse.

We can't afford that again. And yet, here's Clinton. Not just Clinton, but CLINTON!

Jesus Christ. When will we learn.

Obama fights like a TIGER when it's stuff like TPP, ACA (republican plan, not single payer), etc. He TALKS progressive and delivers wallstreet. All the while claiming he "had to because of the GOP".

It will be the EXACT SAME THING with HRC.

And the support will continue to dwindle all the while they keep saying "vote for me or else it will be a republican", "we have to work with the GOP" , etc, etc, etc.....


HRC would be horrible in getting anything progressive across - 1) because she's not 2) because "oh, the GOP won't let me, we have to compromise (wink wink)", "Oh, TPP, Social Security" etc we HAVE to do xx to *save* it

With Bernie it would be a fight, but the people would have his back because he WONT TURN it on them like Obama and Clinton did/will.

though you weren't supposed to notice. We will get exactly nowhere on any progressive ideas under Clinton, instead she'll continue neocon foreign policy, neoliberal economic policy, work with Republicans to implement reforms we don't want ("fixing" social security was a good example, less benefits for the seniors and a later retirement age is what we would get), and Republicans would be used as the reason to support her and politicians like her so the crazies don't get to run the ship.

It's the triangulation two-step, we've been living it for 40 years now and we know the dance well. We also know what it gets us.

It's time to re-energize the party, wean ourselves from our party's corporate money dependency, and strongly advocate for reforms and politicians that serve the people rather than corporate interests, re-engaging the vast pool of disaffected voters who have given up after so many years of disingenuous triangulation.

It's completely disheartening to see so many selling us the same old crap. For the democratic party, it's the path to irrelevance, for the people it's the slow road to hell.

That was a miss.

With all the capitulation to corporate interests and the powerful elite interests these past few decades... why vote for candidates that turn their back on you.

We have posters who are now approvingly citing authors who wrote that African Americans have lowered IQs because they have little brains:


http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/features/2007/created_equal/liberalcreationism.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/features/2007/created_equal/regrets.html


because he has now taken to libeling Hillary Clinton:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/11/hillary_clinton_keeps_smearing_bernie_sanders_as_a_sexist_now_she_is_reaching.html

EOM

I don't like to be called out, as an individual or as a member of a group, and disrespected/insulted when I defend myself.

You've thrown down links to an author. Ok. Uhm. That's not Clinton. That's not her campaign. That's not Sanders. That's not his campaign.

That's some guy somewhere.

Are you claiming he's equivalent? Random Internet Author vs Candidate. Which one should I worry about more?

I wouldn't cite a racist who suggested African Americans have lowered IQs because they have little brains, period. Maybe it would behoove you to show the same sensitivity to the feelings of others you ask for yourself.

Sounds reasonable, am I right?

What's going on inside the GOP is scorched earth. By contrast we're a box of fluffy kittens.

That may change, but so far the candidates themselves have not brought out the incendiary devices

I think Clinton was waiting to throw sexism down, like a grenade with a pin pulled. And as soon as Sanders said anything at all, she threw it.

That's indicative, IMO.

Jesus

Can't we all feel the pain of others?

I am a matrilineal Jew but that doesn't mean I am not saddened when my Armenian friends tell me of the genocide against them by the Turks, my African American friends tell me about the slave trade and the legacy of Jim Crow, my Filipino friends tell me about the indignities foisted upon them during the Spanish, American, and Japanese occupation...

We need to feel each other's pain and try to mitigate it.

Honestly, besides posting on a message board?

You know, I didn't want to post this here. It's just something people should do you know?

My sister-in-law is babysitting a kid. Let's call him Javier. His father was deported. His mother works all day every day. My sister-in-law babysits him for nothing. He has zero toys. None. He comes over to my niece and nephew and revels in what they have. But, weirdly, he puts everything away. Immediately. He doesn't want to get in trouble. He makes sure any toy he uses goes away as soon as he's done. This kid is fastidious to a fault.

So my dad asks him what he has. Nothing. Does he have a bike? No. He looks at my nephew's bike in wonder. Does he have toys? No.

So, my parents and I buy him a bike. I, being away in Cali, flip to amazon and get him legos and other toys.

The kid? Is stupid ecstatic. He's ballistically happy. I feel good, my parents feel good, my brother's family feels good.

Then Javier starts talking to my sister-in-law in Spanish. Spilling secrets. Telling her how his mom's "friend" hurts her and makes her cry. A guy from Afghanistan with all the woman-centric that cultural mess begets. We damn near leapt over one another to throw down.

This is what normal, decent people do. And yet, I see this not at all in Clinton's campaign. There's no sitcking up for anyone. There's no actually integrating with minorities. There's no welcoming latinos, or sticking up for single mothers, or defending American culture. There's just pandering, and shit, and saying what she needs to say.

That's my experience on the ground. That's my life. That's what I do.

How does Clinton help us?

I have many undocumented friends, one of whom whose name is Julio and is married to my friend Gary. Julio is from Mexico but is not yet a citizen. He came here illegally. My girlfriend wrote a letter in support of his petition for citizenship. I don't know all the particulars but there was a problem in him becoming a citizen even though he married an America because he didn't enter the country properly in the first place. I posted the letter in General Discussion a few months ago..


Hillary has a comprehensive immigration reform plan and is in my opinion electable. I don't want to see my undocumented friends sent home if the GOPU controls all the levels of government.

I also get Medi Cal as a single , indigent male. Prior to the advent of the Affordable Care Act single indigent males weren't eligible for Medi-Cal or Medicaid as it is called in other states. CA as you know is a progressive state so folks like me will be just fine. I had Healthy Way L A before the ACA...But if the GOPU wins the presidency they will pare the Medicaid rolls, hurting the most vulnerable of us...

For those of us with little who depend on the government for our very well being Senator Sanders losing is too big a gamble.. When he loses he will go back to his Senate job, his supporters, many of whom are upper middle class will go back to their upper middle class lives, and vulnerable people like myself will be left to fend for ourselves...Too risky, that's why Hillary is so popular with the most vulnerable members of society. They aren't dreaming about revolutions. They are worried about putting food on their table and seeing the doctor before they have an illness so severe they are ready to die.

I know that was the last response you thought you would get but it has the benefit of being absolute truth.

to the teahaddists. The man can't manage to get more than 25% or so with democrats. HTH is he going to win against a Koch backed teahaddist?

Lucky for us Bernies campaign is dead in the water. Can't wait till super tuesday

He has never harmed me or you and I am sure he wants the best for plebeians like you and me.. That's beside the point...If he loses we lose everything...His supporters, most of whom are upper middle class, will have their money, privilege and status to fall back on. Guys like you and your family and me will be f--ed.

His supporters are a whole different can of worms...They haven't been nice to us.

I do wish Hillary will keep it positive, but I also think people overanalyzed her words. The fact is that there IS a history of women being accused of shouting or talking too much, of having "shrill" voices, etc. The fact is that the joke about her being considered VP was condescending on the Bernie campaign's part, and would have felt like sexism to any woman who's ever been told that she's only good enough for the #2 spot. And regarding DOMA, she's not really defending the content - just reminding people that those were different times, and that there were all kinds of considerations in allowing it to pass - most certainly it was probably largely because of Bill's election chances (something she can hardly admit), but also because the possibility of a constitutional amendment against gay marriage at the time. The truth is most likely that there were various considerations, one of which is what she says it was. Those were different times. The broader culture has "evolved" very rapidly on the issue of gay marriage in the last 20 years.

So yes, I wish Hillary would keep it positive and on the issues. But she also knows that politics is a tough game, and she's in this to win. And none of the things listed as "scorched earth" above is really quite so awful - and indeed, they are at least partially rooted in truth. Does that mean that it's OK to call Bernie sexist? No. But she did not in fact call him that. She just jumped on stuff he or his campaign said which could be construed as sexist.

I think both candidates are great, and I hope they can keep it largely positive, and not make snide remarks towards one another.

What scorch earth campaign????? If anything, this has been quite a civil campaign.

Either you are too young to remember other primaries or haven't been involved in politics much.

Can you figure Hillary's DOMA comment?

Bea, I know you, you've been around for ages.

Why is she throwing that out?

“On Defense of Marriage [Act], I think what my husband believed — and there was certainly evidence to support it — is that there was enough political momentum to amend the Constitution of the United States of America, and that there had to be some way to stop that. And there wasn’t any rational argument — because I was in on some of those discussions, on both ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ and on DOMA, where both the president, his advisers and occasionally I would — you know, chime in and talk about, ‘You can’t be serious. You can’t be serious.’ But they were. And so, in a lot of ways, DOMA was a line that was drawn that was to prevent going further. It was a defensive action.”

I think that the 90s were a different era and the majority of people were not ready to accept gay marriage. Almost 20 years later people have finally reached a level of acceptance that was unheard of back then. One can't judge history in a vacuum.

A bald-faced lie.

It's 90s revisionism.

I'm not that old. I lived through that era. I know how all of that made me felt.

It's fine if someone would say, "Look, the 90s sucked, we went with the flow and agreed to this because that's just how things were."

I mean, it'd be shitty, but ok. I can certainly get over it. But she wants me to think, "Well, you gay people just didn't appreciate all the wonder we were doing for you!" OMG! No! No no no no no no no! Stop talking!

That was not how it was. That is not what happened. That is not what LGBT lived through.

She needs to shut that shit way down immediately.

yet?

I guess the latest round of polls showing Hillary beating the crap out of Bernie has sent some of his followers over the edge

EOM

I try to comfort them but they make it hard by insulting me without cause and not giving me a chance to respond. But thanks to friends like you and left of cool I was able to respond...

Look at the "Hillary group" Some of us are poor...Some of us are comfortable...Some of us are gay...Some of us are straight...Some of us are Black...Some of us are white. Some of us are Latino...But we all have each other's back...We are exemplars to the world.

People who tell LGBTers to pass shouldn't be in any kind of consolation position.

Your mileage may vary.

(Yeah, there's no way you're living that bigotry down)

"To pass"

Blatant homophobia.

It's like a game of Limbo

Check out Post 65... It should have resonance with a fellow plebeian.

I am 100% committed to getting Bernie elected, but I've always said that if Hillary became the Democratic nominee, I would support her. Every time she turned negative on Bernie, I worried that all the new voters inspired by Bernie, both the millennials & the previously disenfranchised voters, would not support her if she did win the nomination. As her attacks got stronger and her supporters meaner, I came to that same decision myself: I can no longer justify voting for her in any circumstance. It was bad enough when she started belittling his supporters...her attacks against him keep getting worse. At this point, if we let him down by not showing up in droves, the Republican could take this election. We need Bernie to win.

my thoughts exactly

And thus refuses to or cannot see her limitations.

I'm waiting for an explanation and apology for this bigotry.

Perhaps you should do what I do. Read people's words as written without putting ones own ideas into it and twisting the meaning. I find it helpful. Then I don't end up attacking people falsely.

Which, no problem. But maybe stop lecturing people on their bigotry when you clearly have your own to grapple with?

You went with that bigotry, and you're going to run with it, come hell or high water.

I really do admire that kind of honesty. Usually people deny it.

off at her and will always be pissed off at her.

She's not running a dirty campaign. She's running a positive campaign. She's also running a winning campaign, and that makes people who already hate her even more pissed off.

When you feel you have to attack Bernie Sanders on race and sexism in order to win an election your level of integrity is probably not what most people expect from a president.

and helping for Democratic fundraising.....ask yourself who else is doing that.


Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign has signed joint fundraising agreements with 33 state Democratic parties, according to a Wednesday filing with the Federal Elections Commission.

The Clinton campaign now has deals in place with the Democratic parties in Florida, Nevada, Ohio, South Carolina, and Texas, among other states and Puerto Rico, to create "victory funds." Contributions to those funds will be divided between the respective state parties and Clinton's primary campaign war chest.

Clinton has stressed that she wants her campaign and candidacy to boost other Democrats all the way down the ticket. Helping channel donors' support for her into state parties is one way to leverage her fundraising power on behalf of other candidates—and to link the success of other Democrats to her own.

The Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee announced a fundraising agreement in late August, making it possible for donors to give to her campaign and to the party's general election fund with one check. Clinton would only benefit from the money if she becomes the Democratic nominee.

The New York Times reported last month on the agreements reached between the Clinton campaign and state parties in New Hampshire, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Mississippi. The state parties' agreements with Clinton do not preclude them from establishing similar arrangements with other Democratic candidates.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-09-17/hillary-clinton-inks-fundraising-accords-with-33-state-parties

http://www.adn.com/article/20150922/alaska-democrats-join-clinton-campaign-fundraising-plan-aimed-wealthy-donors

O'Malley for NH ?@omalleyfornh 16h16 hours ago
@martinomalley is out supporting @JoyceCraig2015 for mayor at Ward 1 in Manchester #nhpolitics

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251765201

It's not his first time campaigning for others as well.