2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThree Events Coincided with the Beginning of the Clinton Surge
Two have been discussed in great detail:
1) The First Democratic Debate - I won't go into it, but I think it's fair to say at the very least that Ms. Clinton did not lose the debate.
2) The Special Committee on Benghazi Hearings - A full day of the Secretary shooing away the flies was obvs good optics. Nuf said on that.
3) Mostly Undiscussed: The Media's Focus on the Term "Democratic Socialist." - The media really began pushing the socialism line in the wake of the debate's "Explain Yourself" question. That's what I want to discuss.
Before I start, I should note that I consider myself a socialist (at least), and Sanders' commitment to bringing this term back to the political discourse is one of my favorite aspects of his campaign. He's doing us all a service. That said, if the first two events were political wins for Clinton, this third has been something of a rhetorical failure. I'm not really sure why. I heard Sanders again this morning on NPR explaining the what he means by Democratic Socialist. On the surface, his explanation is clear and persuasive, and even at some points lovely.
But it is failing rhetorically.
Obviously, I might be charged with a post hoc fallacy, but we should at least consider the correlation between the increasing awareness of Sanders socialism, or at least the increasing media demands that he explain it (and his own explanations), and his recent poor polling performance across the board.
Why isn't "Democratic Socialism" working? What would make it better?
trumad
(41,692 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)in 2009. I think it was an bad attempt at squashing that!
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Being honest about who you are and what you stand for is never a mistake. This is the difference between Hillary and Sanders. Bernie is not afraid of who he is and wants to get elected based on his own beliefs because he feels they can help the country. Hillary wants to get elected at any cost. She's changed half her positions in the last month alone just as Bernie was catching on.
Good Politics =/= Good Person.
I'll vote for Good Person every time.
trumad
(41,692 posts)For some reason you think that half the country loves the word Socialism.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Do you think socialism is a bad word? Do you support things like universal healthcare, free college tuition, and paid family leave? If you do, and you aren't willing to defend the word 'socialism', then you're part of the problem.
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)Instant uptick there.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Good point.
Cha
(297,523 posts)hadn't announced anything.
And, then said he wasn't running and it changed a lot.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Hillary gained 10% overnight when Biden said he wouldn't run.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)EOM
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)We invested a lot into the propaganda of the Cold War. Socialist was the very slippery edge to the abyss of communism. And communism was defeated by Ronny Raygun, as a dragon might been slew by a paladin.
The facts were deemed a hindrance to a good story.
Most of the resistance to "Socialist" comes from persons over 40.
I agree a better way to explain socialism should be used. something along the lines of
I believe in the American people. I believe we can get things done. We have the training, the skills and the muscles to do anything. As with any project you could desire, we will get what we want and get it done more cost effectively if we do it ourselves instead of hiring a contractor to do it. Just as we defend our country; as we build dams; as we landed a man on the Moon. We do our best when we work together.
That is our version of Socialism.
Bear in mind that when socialism came into being; when the word socialism was linked to a political idea. There were only two countries on Earth that were governed by the will of the people; the fledgling United States and the Republic of France. France was locked in the Reign of Terror, that blood bath that was the citizenry paying back every hurt caused by the previous Monarchy with interest. The United States peacefully went to work building a nation.
We are the proof that the early pioneers of socialism needed. We are the inspiration for what would become socialism.
"We the People" is the definition of socialism.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)The sooner that the folks that love Bernie accept this reality, the less it will hurt in the end.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)and that will likely earn a lot of attacking responses (which I shall dutifully ignore). I think that it's not entirely the message but the messenger that is the issue.
People have always said here that once people get to see Sanders and hear his message they'll be drawn to support him. I think what happened with the debate and with subsequent interviews, is that what people don't like is the way in which the message is being delivered. I hate all the individual anecdotes, but to take one up myself, a dear friend of mine called a day or two after the debates (actually, to talk to my husband about some work, but in his absence talked to me instead). What did I think of the debates? he asked. I was reluctant to respond, because he is an intellectual and very much on the political left and I didn't want to risk our being on different sides of the fence. So I turned the tables and asked what he thought. He said he thought Hillary had done great, but that Bernie just kept wagging his finger and scolding. I added that I was surprised how negative his opening and closing statements were--that America was in a terrible crisis, that things were horrible--and that I didn't think that was a smart way to engage people.
So there, I said it. When Bernie talks, perhaps through no fault of his own, he often seems angry, scolding, preachy ... and yes, often negative about the country. It's just his style, not so much his message that is failing. Some here love the angry, "kick butt" demeanor and find it endearing, but they need to realize it does not charm everyone.
I think that people watched the debate and/or saw some of the hearing, and picked up on demeanor in both of these good candidates. And they saw one as being "presidential" and the other maybe not how they envisage a resident of the Oval Office. Like it or not, demeanor matters.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)It's a rhetorical failure. But it might be more the demeanor side of things, as you suggest. Not really sure. Good post!