2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIMO Bernie and Clinton: Close on Social Issues. On Wealth and Power Issues: Bernie's Way Better
Last edited Sat Nov 7, 2015, 09:00 PM - Edit history (2)
(I apologize for not giving much attention to O'Malley here. But the focus of attention has obviously been on Clinton and Sanders. O'Malley shouldn't be neglected.)
And this is all just IMO....
We go back and forth on sexism,women's rights, racism,LGBT issues, civil rights, guns, childcare, etc.......
All important issues. We should hold all of the candidates to high standards. And IMO, Sanders, Clinton and O'Malley all meet those standards as candidates and would if elected...... Sure, there are some variances, some maybe a little stronger or weaker in specifics. But I don't see any fundamental differences in their behavior or policies or values on the so-called "social issues" which would be deal breakers.
But here's the sticky wicket.
On issues of Wealth and Power -- who has them and who's lost them, and what we can do about it -- if you apply the liberal/progressive values the Democratic Party claims to stand for, and who the candidates traditionally represent, it's Bernie by far. O'Malley too, potentially.
The specific s reasons I believe that are too long to be repeated here endlessly. Not just past ties and affiliations and positions, but present ones. The phrases like "tied to big banks" and "beholden to large corporations" may have become cliches that ease into one ear and out the other.
But they unfortunately have too much truth to them.
Not that Hillary's a bad person, and doesn't believe in what she says. I'm sure she believes that she is for the middle class and the disadvantaged. But she is just so locked into, surrounded by and an integral part of a matrix of elite interests that have formed a defcto Corporate Oligarchy. I don't know that she can escape that.
It's a worldview that works for a few but is pushing down the vast majority. It's a new Gilded Age, where the Robber Barons created libraries, but got the money from screwing the working class and rigging the system for personal and corporate gain.
This is not It's just what is obvious and is just below the surface. Not even below the surface. Right there on the surface (although glossed over by the MSM and conventional wisdom of partisan politics).
The TPP, for example, is a buzzword. But it has the potential to further erode democracy and the ability to make national policy or enforce local laws, hasten the loss of the middle class, and lower standards for many things. These trade agreements are bad by design. It's not a matter of tweaking. There are BETTER and more honest ways to draw up trade policy. The Gold Standard of "free trade" agreements are just Fools Gold.
Just one of many examples. If we want to turn away the ship from the iceburg, we have to stop doing this stuff to ourselves. If we'd stopped dong it in the 80's and 90's we'd be a lot better off today. Do we want to keep doing it?
This will fall on deaf ears, I know. But i would hope that more people would take a hard look at whether we really want to perpetuate that, or if it's time to open the doors, let some fresh air in, and give others besides the well-connected and wealthy a chance to represent the opposition to the GOP, and push for more fundamental reform.
Just my two cents
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)The issues I am referring to directly impact women and children and all groups in many ways.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Iow...reasons.
We need to lift women and children out of poverty, not just pay lip service to their plight during election years.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Faith and other ways of knowing that Hillary will keep to the left if she wins the nomination.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Now would be a great time to post what makes her better. It would be a lovely issues-centric post instead of the usual squabbling around here.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Again, this is a fantastic opportunity to make a case with specific examples instead of just opinions.
Want to take that opportunity?
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)A healthy, educated society would not vote for the kinds of situations we have today.
And that doesn't happen in an election cycle. But it starts there.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)You're right. It's also a question of values in behavior. It's also setting up alternatives, whicn is happening aall over on the local, regional and even on the national level.
But it also has to seep up into the national discourse as part of the mainstream "dialogue in the zeitgeist," which ultimately includes the election cycle.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)The mentioning of a federal level legalization of pot means that the fake demons are fading away, one by one. We're even discussing economics that were demonized as well. A bunch of firsts mean that a good fraction of this country doesn't buy the hype we're being fed, thanks to the conservative perversion our fourth estate has become.
It takes a person with strong vision and morals to initiate any change in momentum.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Good two cents.