2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumVote for Hillary.
All you have to do is:
Forget the wars. Forget the deaths. Forget the torture. Forget the collaboration with the Republicans. Forget the collaboration with the corporations. Forget the pursuit of whistle blowers. Forget the poor. Forget the persecuted. Forget the police state.
Again, we are told to be patient. That the other side is worse.
Again, we are told to shut up and vote for the candidate who can win and ignore their record.
And, again, we are told that "this time it will be different."
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Rec'd
senz
(11,945 posts)After the most recent upgrade to my browser, some photos won't show unless I right-click and choose "view photo" -- so I'm going to try to copy your excellent image here (and see if it shows on my browser):
Aw heck, Preview shows that it doesn't.
Anyway, it is perfect and I hope others can see it.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)With your permission, I'll PM you.
senz
(11,945 posts)I'd PM you, Catherina, but decided to put it out here for the benefit of those who seem to find techie things interesting (I don't, anymore).
At first I thought the problem was related to my having ad-blocked the offensive "fly swatter" animated gif that less desirable DUers had been using to express hostility/aggression against Bernie supporters who make them feel inferior. I explored that possibility for awhile but could find no direct connection.
Finally, after wandering more deeply into the code (which I presume is html) and casting about quickly and intuitively, I stumbled upon this:
The latest update of my browser (sorry, won't name it) recently offered tracking protection, which I opted into. I had noticed that unviewable images had the "pbs.twimg.com/media" address. My browser apparently sees this location as engaging in cross-site tracking of users.
Right now it looks like I can disable it entirely or for the session. Will probably do the latter.
Okay, that's all.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)And I'm glad you worked it out.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Hillary is fighter and she will lead the Dem's well,
she is a very loyal Dem.
senz
(11,945 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)hence Sicko got meds? want em cheaper? Bernie!!!
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Hillary is own person, you are not just supporting
Sanders you have become emotionally involved,
and he is only a politican.
senz
(11,945 posts)It's a distinct advantage in supporting him.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Sanders has not been in a political fight, Sanders has not
had any hard decision to make. The population in his
state is 600,000. mostly all white and all liberal.
senz
(11,945 posts)and all those years he has voted, promoted, fought against, filibustered, served on and chaired committees on issues of great import to this country and to the world.
He was a U.S. Congressman, a U.S. Senator. He served in D.C., not Vermont. Bernie has broad experience and has not compromised his values in all those years.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Here, enjoy these threads:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251796674
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128063921
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)But you're not saying anything.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Hillary is an >owned< person. Big money owns Hillary.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Response to senz (Reply #53)
Post removed
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)Because all of this happened on his watch and we were told the GOP would not let him do anything...but Hillary will be different which implies that Obama is weak?
Or will we hear for the next 8 years that the GOP once racist is now misogynist and they won't let her do anything either?
Those excuses are wearing thin.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)Do you think it was Hillary's vote for an unjust war, and the thousands of resulting deaths that made him bitter, or the hundreds of thousands of $s that Hillary has taken in "speaking fees" from the same banks that nearly destroyed our economy?
While you're thinking about that, ask yourself if those speaking fees have anything to do with Hillary's stance on Glass-Steagall?
I'm bitter too. If you're not bitter, you're not fucking paying attention.
imthevicar
(811 posts)But angry!
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Please give her full credit:
There, that's more like it.
demwing
(16,916 posts)For not correctly honoring those that died because of a lie - and the unwillingness to challenge that lie.
Thanks for the correction.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)It would probably would look kind of funny. All the high points would be at the bottom of the page. Then you would have to scroll down to see the low points.
Is it even possible for the high points to be below the center line?
brush
(53,862 posts)The SCOTUS nominations are at stake. With these virulent anti-Clinton posts I don't see how many of you will vote to keep the repugs from making those nominations if Sanders doesn't get our nomination.
demwing
(16,916 posts)#2 - we've been told that our votes and our voices don't matter, forgive us if we've come to believe that.
brush
(53,862 posts)We all have to decide what to do after that.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)vote for the best candidate possible. Then in the general election you will vote for the best possible candidate also. Both are important to the process.
brush
(53,862 posts)Guess you didn't know.
It's written in the TOS to get Democrats elected.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)You do know this thread was about one of the Democratic primary candidates? Thus the "Vote for Hillary." title.
But that's all right, the process is the same for Democrats and Republicans. Vote for who you think is best in your primary and then do the same in the general.
brush
(53,862 posts)Who said anything about Clinton not being Democrat?
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)I could assume was that you didn't realize Hillary is a Democrat.
brush
(53,862 posts)No where didn't I even remotely imply that Hillary wasn't a Democrat.
I don't get it.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)and second, I don't think either of us can speak to what Tierra wants. Why are you trying to make this a personal issue?
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)a like. Hillary is well liked and respected by many if not by
most progressive.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)willvotesdem
(75 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)I thought it was a bit understated.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)successful Administrations in history, they helped rebuild
the middle class, and left office with a surplus.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Not so much for We, The People
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)in poverty. To hell with our troops that will have to die for our pushing American Exceptionalism. To hell with our seniors living on Social Security. More money to private prisons, more money to the MIC.
" she will lead the Dem's well," Do you not recognize the split in our party? She will exacerbate the split. She won't unite us.
"she is a very loyal Dem." I guess you forgot about when she betrayed the Party and helped the REpublicons. SHE HELPED REPUBLICONS.
What issues does she support that you agree with?
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Enough is Enough!
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)I see your photo perfectly.
Using Firefox, I forget which version, but I usually upgrade to the latest.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I'm definitely stealing that one!
Thankx!
Catherina
(35,568 posts)I'm pretty sure that was Harlem, NYC. The slogan was pretty much standard in the 300 cities that held protests.
Just shows you how out of touch with normal people the great ahem self-declared hopes here are, you know the ones who can't decide between a Landrover or a BMW. Please, steal away my friend. And solidarity.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I swear, the myth of Bernie Sanders from Bernie fans is wildly different than the reality of Bernie Sanders.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Truly worlds different.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)throwing all that hate at fellow Dems. I just throw it back. I can't deal with that sort of hate.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)So what?
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Ralph Nader
Ron Paul
John Edwards.
Three populist scumbags who all ran for president multiple times.
I can NEVER trust a politician that pushes populism.
I think I've seen it all. This is awesome.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)Ronald Reagan
Bill Clinton
George W Bush
We'll never know how one of those populist scumbags would have done since they lost. We know how my three scumbags did because they won and we lost.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)And he is no scumbag.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Glass-Steagel
Welfare reform
don't ask don't tell
DOMA
etc
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I'm surprised that we haven't seen him in a swimsuit. I'm sure that he is soooooo dreamy.
harun
(11,348 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)and the Pope is a Protestant.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)but Clinton was lying through his teeth
and people are falling for it all over again
paleotn
(17,959 posts)...ie. a consummate politician. Like Hillary today, he talked a good game....that is if you just don't look at the record.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Clinton has been in public service, he didn't
come a rich family, he is from a very poor state.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you do the Fandango?
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Seriously???? What the fuck is wrong with populism?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)like anything, there are good and bad forms of populism. It's kind of a meaningless term really, as all politicians have to be populist to a certain extent.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)and call yourself a democrats that you aren't worth a pimple on a real democrat's ass.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)your attempt at a taunt is meaningless.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)Sanders is a socialist who's running as a democrat. Clinton is a republican who's running as a democrat. Maybe everyone should vote for O'Malley?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Secretary clinton was a Goldwater girl! She grew up as a Republican. As to her being a "true Democrat":
And you shall know them by their deeds (or however the verse goes).
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)She has been a Democrat her entire adult life.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)She was president of the young Republicans there.
Are you calling Wellesley coeds children?
green917
(442 posts)With the way she voted as a senator!
green917
(442 posts)Maybe not technically an adult, but old enough to know what she was doing!
imthevicar
(811 posts)Sanders Isn't a third way Democrat. He's a Democrat In the noble Tradition Of FDR! You third Graders Oops I meant Third Way folks Threw Us Overboard 25 years ago! For Mr.Clinton. (Another one who could talk the talk, but not walk the walk.) But Now we are coming to Take Our Party back from the Lying Thieves, who threw in the towel all those years ago to become GOP Lite. We are gonna return the party of the people back to the People! So it's ether Help us as you help yourselves too, or get the Hell out of the Way as this train is gonna roll over you!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)* private prisons
* the war on drugs
* jobs shipped to overseas
* war
* inequality under the law, as recently as 2013
* income disparity
* even less oversight over racheteering banks
Those are the ones I never trust.
DianeK
(975 posts)To hell with the people!
artislife
(9,497 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)don't you know Hillary is Bernie 2.0?
And yes, definitely
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)imthevicar
(811 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)imthevicar
(811 posts)You are Bass Akwards! Bernie Walks the Walk! HRC as far as the tpp goes Barely Talks the Talk!
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)He didn't decide to put himself out as leader until he
was 73. He just sat in Senate writing bills that
went knowhere.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)do'h.. strange people pushing fake myths
gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)I am most curious to see what your perception of "reality" is.
Sanders is one of my senators. I've met Bernie and I have spoken with him. At my request, he successfully intervened with the VA on behalf of a neighbor's son who was being denied benefits for PTSD, so I KNOW him to be a man of his word with integrity beyond reproach, which few in that cesspool of iniquity called Congress can claim. I have followed his career closely since the late seventies, so I do hope you have facts you can cite to back up your version of "...the reality of Bernie Sanders."
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)...to find out what today's game plan is!
Most likely though, it'll be crickets--that's what you always get when you ask for facts.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I've seen a lot of misrepresentation about Bernie's statements and votes by Hillary fans.
What are you referring to?
If it is war funding, I want to read the text of the bill.
Thank you for backing up your claim. Let's see precisely what you are talking about.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)... with every single one of your laughable posts. I would advise you to quit stirring the brew because it stinks to high heaven, but you obviously have to keep piling it higher and deeper.
You excel at this stuff.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)That progressives are already realists and that we are willing to compromise with some of Bernie's votes but are NOT willing to go as far to the economic right to compromise with Hillary.
The illogic of trying to accuse us of not being "pure enough" when it comes to Bernie's record is absolutely staggering.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)You should vote for who you want to vote for.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)selective memory is always best memory
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)However, Hillary has also put herself and her family out
on behalf of the American people and the Dems, and
she has done it for 30 years. She didnt' just decided
when she turned 67 to run for Presidency.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I'm surprised they haven't tested Bernie for flaws. They will find some and then be disenchanted with him. People who see everything so negatively are not worth trying to convince of anything. say something positive about a person, and then they will always be, "yeah, but . . . . and list some flaw.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:20 PM - Edit history (1)
Response to Walk away (Reply #8)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Walk away
(9,494 posts)"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party." Bernie Sanders
Response to Walk away (Reply #79)
Name removed Message auto-removed
angrychair
(8,733 posts)Repeat, Bernie Sanders is a Democrat
There are candidates and members of Congress that did not start voting or their political careers as Democrats.
Bernie Sanders has always caucused with the Democrats, both in the House and Senate. He voted more in line with the Democratic Party platform, 98% of the time, more than almost any other Democrat in Congress. He has never acted like a DINO, his voting record proves it.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party." Bernie Sanders
angrychair
(8,733 posts)Your candidate states in her bio: "I wasn't born a Democrat". Supported Goldwater in high school. While in college she was an intern for Ford when he was House majority leader. Attended the 1968 GOP convention to work for Nelson Rockefeller's run to be president.
Guess what? I don't care.
It is about actions, not words. Bernie Sanders has been as loyal to causes that matter to Democrats, his entire life, than we could ever expect or hope for in a life long Democrat.
Feel free to talk issues but I'm not doing this "Who is more a Democrat" crap.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)a Socialist today and proud of it. Apparently, you are not. That's not my problem. Hillary Clinton has been an active Democrat since college. She supports my party, she raises funds for my party, she has endorsed many hundreds if not thousands of Democrats running for office including Elizabeth Warren.
Bernie has done none of these things because he doesn't belong to the Democratic party. I VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS!!! I see a difference in my party and republicans. Bernie says they are basically the same.
angrychair
(8,733 posts)Bernie Sanders is a DNC-endorsed candidate for president. As a candidate for a party, when you register to be on a ballot, with SOS for a given state, you have to affirm, by oath, you are member of that party you say you running under.
Not sure how else to say it.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Socially liberal, economically conservative.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)for decades!!!!!!
"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."
Bernie Sanders
- Socialist Scholars Conference in New York City, April 1990
pinebox
(5,761 posts)You mean over shit like this?
YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/29/1273428/-These-89-Democrats-Voted-to-Cut-8-7-Billion-from-Food-Stamps
Today, the House passed the 2014 Farm Bill 251 to 166.
162 Republicans voted for it. 63 voted against it.
103 Democrats voted against it. 89 voted for it.
The Farm Bill contains $8.7 billion in cuts to the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), commonly known as food stamps. This translates to a $90 per month cut to beneficiaries. This cut follows November's $5 billion cut from the program, the "hunger cliff" that the Democrats themselves created.
The deal also restricts the USDA from "advertising the SNAP program through [TV], radio and billboard advertisements."
Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz all voted for the bill.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)to bash them with.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)If so, you may want to join the Republican party.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)No wonder the country, Democratic party and press are so over Bernie and his supporters.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,028 posts)was as a Democrat for a Democrat.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."
Bernie Sanders
- Socialist Scholars Conference in New York City, April 1990
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)(sic)
Walk away
(9,494 posts)It's important to me. I do not believe in Socialism as a viable system for this country. How dare you tell me that I have to accept Socialism and keep my mouth shut about it.
Aren't you proud of Bernie's beliefs or are you ashamed that he is a Socialist?????????
Duval
(4,280 posts)Bernie has consistently voted with the Democrats and now he is a Democrat. I really believe we are all capable of having a discussion without getting our pants in a knot. I respect your Candidate, Walk away, and will vote for her if she is the nominee.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)since you are hawking a Socialist for president.
We are different in that I do not respect your candidate. I think it the height of hypocrisy to use my party to run a candidate who hates the party and has been very open about it.
Happily, Bernie Sanders has no chance of winning the nomination so I won't even have to worry about holding my nose and voting for him.
TBF
(32,090 posts)I'd rather have a democratic socialist any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Go peddle you public education elsewhere
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Well played!
Walk away
(9,494 posts)Do you know what a Democratic Socialist is? I can't waste my time with this anymore. It's just sad.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/hillary-clinton-democrat-progressive/
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)"I think sometimes it's important when you are in the elected arena -- you try to figure out, how do you bring people together to get something done instead of just standing on the opposite sides yelling at each other," Clinton said.
Response to Walk away (Reply #8)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)so keep it up!
demwing
(16,916 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)You're not that clever, and I just don't give a shit.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Just add to ignore and... walk away.
demwing
(16,916 posts)I'm being baited to attack this poster, and it ain't gonna happen. Ignored, and I wash my hands of this weirdness.
demwing
(16,916 posts)paleotn
(17,959 posts)....At least the bat shit crazy Republicans are honest about their fascism. They see no need to hid it with empty words and empty promises.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)What are you saying? Do you understand what you say?
Never mind... It's pretty fruitless.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Your irritation is important to us. Please hold for the next available shill.
melm00se
(4,994 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Most Non Reagan Democrats know Sanders is not a socialist.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Nov 11, 2015, 08:14 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: the alert's comments are worse than the alerted post's
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Bernie says he's a democratic socialist. It's not a bad word.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post has grammar errors, not sure what it means. Anyway it should be challenged in the discussion.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Could be hidden but I think leaving this grammatical whoopie cushion alone serves as its own warning.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)BainsBane
(53,066 posts)As do some sixty odd percent of Democrats.
Not because the GOP is worse but because she is the best candidate in the race.
Because I don't forget votes against the Brady Bill and Amber Alert programs, votes for corporate immunity of gun corporations, votes against immigration reform, votes for the Minutemen and the Wall, and continued support of $800 billion in corporate welfare for Lockheed Martin for the F-35, to name a few.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)but your post led me to research something I didn't know either.
----
Bernie voted against Amber Alert
Yes. He did. Though not for reasons people like to think.
Bernie has stated that he is a strong supporter of the Amber Alert program. The reason he voted against the bill was because it had unconstitutional riders attached, particularly the sentencing provisions that Bernie felt took power away from the judiciary branch.
---
so there's that. as for everything else, I've already known these facts. so let's go through them.
his Brady bill vote was obviously to protect sane gun owners ie: hunters in Vermont.
what else? ahh the vote for corporate immunity for gun manufacturers. yep, that's common sense though. suing the manufacturer of an item used for something other than its intended use is suing the wrong people. the manufacturers arent the ones misusing the product.
going on...
Bernie voted against an immigration reform in 2007 because he was concerned about how the guest worker programs affected domestic workers.
regarding the minutemen program and Afghanistan. these people are already employed by the federal government and are serving a role. would you want to be the person to say, nope, let's not fund the guys currently risking their necks. Did Hillary heroically deny them funding? I doubt it.
and finally, the f-35 Lockheed Martin thing. it brought more jobs to his state and provided an organization a place to build a tool for the military.
now look at ALL of these... supposed faults? and compare it to Hillary's record. You're a fan of Hillary's so I'm certain you should know her record better than I do.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)I disagree with them, as I do with Bernie's. I didn't know the reason for the Amber Alert. It sounds esoteric, but I have no reason to doubt his sincerity.
It's interesting to see the so-called left adopt a series of conservative positions, like on guns and the Minutemen, because of Bernie's vote. You won't see me justifying the IW vote. It was wrong, period.
Clinton also has provided far more detailed, substantive policy statements than Sanders.
Sum total: Hillary is much better, much better qualified, smarter, more competent, and will be a far better president.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)better? that's opinion.
More qualified? likely so, she was the wife of a president and is secretary of state so she's likely very familiar with the position as it is.
smarter? no way of knowing this. she is smart, but why be a member of the young republicans? why support the Iraq war knowing all the truth we knew? so is she smart for her own reasons or not smart?
more competent? the Iraq war rears its ugly head here too. and to say more competent? than who? Bernie? that may be opinion as well because I don't see any incompetence in Bernie's actions.
better president? we'll have to see about that, because despite what everyone seems to think they know about Bernie, he's got a grand history of knowing how to work with both parties and reach across the aisle and get things done.
also when they don't work with him, he knows how to get them out of the way. read his autobiography, it's damn enlightening about how he deals with others.
in the end, we'll see. but regarding your end sum mathematics I have to say they're questionable. Hillary in my eyes would not repair what's wrong with our nation, she would continue picking the low hanging fruit while avoiding the big job of shaking the whole tree.
wall st is my biggest issue in this race. Hillary is weakest on that. so that's why I am what I am.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)It is far more substantive than Sanders' and according to Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman addresses the very issues that brought about the crisis of 2008, which Sanders does not. He's keen on simple points that resonate with certain segments of the public but less interested in substantive policy that will actually solve the problem.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/wall-street/
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/8/9482521/hillary-clinton-financial-reform
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/16/opinion/democrats-republicans-and-wall-street-tycoons.html?_r=0
If you care as much about Wall Street as you say, you owe it to yourself to examine her policy positions rather than simply internet memes circulated about her.
Vote for whoever you want in the primary. I just hope by the general election you decide to support the Democrat. I know a number of people have said they would just as soon have a Republican because Clinton is just as bad, but that statement shows absolutely no understanding of her actual policy positions. It reveals an astounding level of misinformation. Of course it's possible, indeed likely, that their objections have little to nothing to do with her positions on issues like Wall Street or corporate accountability, especially considering that Sanders is hardly consistent on that subject himself (as some of his votes discussed in my first post indicate).
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Hillary can swear up and down, left and right all day long that she will control Wall St. But as long as her biggest fundees are from Wall St, and as long as she's served on the board of Directors of Wal Mart while they became the nations biggest employer, overtaking GE, and as long as she says ridiculous things like "I went to Wall St and said 'Cut it out guys!'" then I'll never believe that.
Here's a fact of life that we've all known, politicians are known to lie. Hillary's actions have constantly contradicted her new words so... That's the conclusion that many people are drawing.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)Read the Krugman piece I linked to. Wall Street money is going almost exclusively to the GOP. He talks about a shift since 2008. Read it.
The fact is Wall Street were never her top donors, even while she was in the Senate. The Open Secrets info is internally contradictory and shows the number one industries supporting her as educators and lawyers, while finance and banking much further down the list. Additionally, that is old data. Wall Street hates Obama, as Krugman talks about, and they hate the entire Democratic party.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Click the button that says "Help! These numbers don't add up to read this...
The figures in these profiles are taken from databases uploaded by the FEC to the internet on the first day of every week. Those databases are only as current as the FEC has been able to compile by that date (see the note above about lag times for data entry).
The Center updates figures for "Total Raised and Spent" and for "PAC/Individual Split" daily when new reports are due until all reports have been filed. The remaining figures - based on detailed contribution data - is updated by the Center every 3 or 4 weeks. This gives us time to analyze the contributions and categorize them by industry and interest group."
Never her top donors? Even while she was in the Senate? The open secrets page accounts for all money including from the year of 1989.
There is no misconception that Hillary is friendly with Wall St. The idea that "almost" all the Wall St money supports the GOP doesn't exclude a few Democrats from participating in that kind of corruption either. Hillary has hands in Wall St, that's literally an indisputable fact.
UPDATE: I read the Krugman article. It reaffirms what I already know. Bernie wants to break up big banks, reinstate Glass Steagall. Hillary doesn't want to reinstate Glass Steagall and wants to go after shadow banks.
Why not both? And because of the vociferous opinion of Bernie, I have no doubt he'd go after the shadow banks as well.
Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Faux pas
(14,690 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Apparently that's all that matters in this primary.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)I'd be insulted if anyone presumed to speak for everyone of my race, gender, ethnicity, etc.
We are each of us individuals, and others should honor that.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)jalan48
(13,883 posts)Hillary is a well known commodity. Bernie may not win the election but the ideas and policies he speaks in support of are the future of the Democratic Party.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)This fear is being promulgated and intensified by the Democratic establishment and their accomplices in the media, because they have no progressive policy agenda yet need progressive votes.
Just look at all the things we've been told to ignore "because the Republicans are worse!":
* War
* Torture
* Assassination "Targeted Killing"
* The TPP
* The National Surveillance State
* Criminalization of Investigative Journalism
* Prosecution of Whistle Blowers
All of the most strident voices demanding that we stop criticizing Democratic politicians for their roles in making these things happen seem to support Hillary for the Presidency. They must really believe that Sanders is unable to defeat the Republican nominee, despite numerous polls showing that this belief is false. They are so terrified that they refuse to even try to reverse the rightward drift of the Party. They have resigned themselves to simply slowing down the inevitable transition to fascism, and have abandoned hope of stopping it.
lark
(23,156 posts)Clinton is 100x better than any R candidate for president. If she's our party's general election nominee, NOT voting for her is voting to privatize social security, go to war with Iran, cut taxes for the wealthy and raise them for the poor, cut American jobs, end unions, end free public school, reduce Medicare to a voucher program, end affordable medical care. If you are one of the 1%, that's OK, if not, then why are you helping them?
I totally reject your premise and I'm voting for Bernie in the primary, in spite of seeing this kind of crap continually from some of his supporters. I will, however, vote for Hillary if she's the general election D. Do you want our government run by Trump, Rubio, Bush or any of the other clowns? If not, you have to vote for the Dem, even if she's not perfect.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)We may not favor the same candidate for the primaries. But we both understand exactly what is at stake in the GE.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)who will simply chose not to decide. Low turnout will be the story on a Tuesday early next November. That frightens the shit out of me. It will be interpreted as both a rejection of of populist policies and an acceptance of austerity and racism.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)to their peril and IF....they will get what they didn't vote for and I can't wait for the whining. I'll be standing offstage LOL and long
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)
Sanders is 1000x better than any R candidate for president. If he's our party's general election nominee, NOT voting for him is voting to privatize social security, go to war with Iran, cut taxes for the wealthy and raise them for the poor, cut American jobs, end unions, end free public school, reduce Medicare to a voucher program, end affordable medical care. You also lose out on single payer Healthcare, FREE(not "affordable" as she would do) tuition.
If you are one of the 1%, that's OK, if not, then why are you helping them?
lark
(23,156 posts)I also said I'd be voting for him in the primary.
Way to ignore the actual text.
What will you do if Sanders isn't our general election nominee? Support the R's or the D's? It's really that simple.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... calling out the sinners.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Folks like the OP think that if we disagree with him, we must not have any principles or ideals.
And given that, he gets to sit in judgement over us.
Apparently you agree. Otherwise you would not ask the question you asked.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... only encounters in the RW.
My ideals include (but are not limited to) voting for the person I think will be the best leader and make the most progress overall.
That person is Hillary.
Whether you share my ideals, or whether you agree with how I prioritize them, is irrelevant.
Or are you one of DU's self proclaimed High Priest's of Liberalism who think they get to decide which ideals are the most important, and which are not?
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)or don't think they are that bad, or you are ignoring them, or you are holding your nose and supporting her because she is more electable than other Dems.
IMO, Bernie is better on most issues. But I will hold my nose and vote for Hillary in the general. I know a lot of people who won't though.
cannabis_flower
(3,765 posts)modestybl
(458 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And for reasons in addition to the above including...trust.
I have none in her.
840high
(17,196 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)corruption, persecution of minorities, and torture by Putin apologists.
You people are fooling absolutely nobody.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)It almost seems like you are saying a person's responsibility for promoting unjust wars, a police state, intimidating whistleblowers, corruption, persecution of minorities, and torture doesn't matter.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)and I wasn't a member then but I could have told anyone there was no way John Kerry would win. There has to be stark differences. and Hillary certainly will not be able to do a get out the vote. basically if you like how Rahm is handeling things. or how well Bush W was go ahead. Otherwise I'm voting for a Liberal. if I'm gonna vote for a Conservative I'll vote for Trump Ben Carson might be liberal really don't know much about him. Tea Party is not Conservative by definition. Tea party is for massive change and that is not Conservative. can one be a Right Wing Liberal? by definition yes. Liberal = change Conservative= stays the same. Tea Party does not want to stay the same. Trump is no Tea Party. and I don't even like him. but he will get out the vote. Not sure about Carson.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)4MyGrandson
(9 posts)pukes win, the fire under the pot we are all being cooked in heats up very quickly, boiling many/most of us. But there might be some resistance, enough resistance (ala the occasional remembering of Democratic principles by Dems in saying "No" to Shrub( to slow down or even derail the disaster express run by the right.
If Clinton wins the White House, things will continue to go from bad to worse, only with some "moderation" thrown in so that we do not really notice the rising heat. By the time things get too bad, the corporate oligarchy will be firmly entrenched and we will not be able to reverse it.
Anything that can be connected to enriching the already-wealthy will be the policies of a Clinton administration.
Sure, we all (black & white, gay & straight, male & female, etc. & etc.) will be equal as slow progress on these social issues will continue (the cons have already lost on these - they just refuse to accept that reality)
But we will all be equally poor, abused, and in thrall to the 1%.
Paka
(2,760 posts)Stated very clearly, 4MyGrandson. I have no children or grandchildren, but I have many wonderful nieces and nephews and fifteen amazing great-nieces and great-nephews to consider. I'm old enough that I could accept the concept of "slowing down the disaster express," but for their sake I want real and meaningful change.
GO BERNIE!
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)I'm going to fight for change for the 99%, not the gifts for the 1%
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)logo from a supermarket
Sorry I could not resist.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)You really think this is a thing?
She "swiped" an old logo from an English chain store from the 1800's that isn't even in business today?
Benghazi and email not working for you?
FFS.
Paka
(2,760 posts)I don't think the poster meant that to be serious.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Haven't you read all the threads in GDP explaining to you what horrible, shambling, eldritch beasts "SANDERS SUPPORTERS" are? Verily, they are an ancient horror straight out of an HP Lovecraft novel.
You should make your decision on who to vote for in the primary based upon WHICH CANDIDATE DOESNT HAVE A LOT OF THREADS IN GDP TELLING YOU HOW TERRIBLE THEIR SUPPORTERS ARE, silly!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)Trust me.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)about being the 1%!
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)This time we say no.
This time we stand.
It is time to take our country back.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)...and my age begins with a six.
treestar
(82,383 posts)"we" means "me." A small subset of people who have so many complaints and see only the dark side of things and expect their ideals to be enacted in an atmosphere where few other voters want them yet. They only have to tell Hillary is better than a Republican because nothing makes you happy and Republicans are worse in fact. Of course you have to be patient, that is part of being grown-up and living in a Republic. What is wrong with being patient? The Republicans are, and that's how they get what they want.
Mr. Evil
(2,856 posts)Then she will more than likely suffer from SMS (Selective Memory Syndrome). On the other hand, Bernie will say what he believes and will stick with the truth.
I'm with Bernie!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I'd been in Kansas with Dorothy...
imthevicar
(811 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)wolfie001
(2,265 posts)When it's all over and she wins the nomination, I'll vote for her. "She's better on her worst day than ANY repuke is on his best day!" Quote is from BERNIE!!!! lol......
riversedge
(70,299 posts)AnarchoDeJesus
(9 posts)The left/right paradigm is a racket.
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)For the rest, not so much.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)NonMetro
(631 posts)Because corporate America might get mad at us, outsource our jobs, put us out on the street, and reduce welfare benefits some more so some might starve to death. Of course, they're already doing that, but a vote for Hillary will ensure that deaths from exposure and hunger are "rare".
still_one
(92,396 posts)WASHINGTON -- Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Sunday that he supports President Barack Obama's decision to keep troops in Afghanistan, prolonging the war beyond 2016.
Obama announced last week that he would keep 5,500 U.S. troops in Afghanistan after he leaves office in 2017, breaking his promise to end the war during his tenure. He originally planned to maintain only a small military presence based at the U.S. embassy there.
During an interview on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday morning, host George Stephanopoulos asked Sanders, a Democratic presidential candidate, whether he backs keeping U.S. troops in the country.
"Well, yeah, I won't give you the exact number. Clearly, we do not want to see the Taliban gain more power, and I think we need a certain nucleus of American troops present in Afghanistan to try to provide the training and support the Afghan army needs," he said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-afghanistan_5623b601e4b08589ef47bdaa
Sanders: "Media attacks on Carson unfair"
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/259495-sanders-media-attacks-on-carson-unfair
cui bono
(19,926 posts)He said himself he's not a pacifist, that there are times when military action is indeed necessary. So what's your point?
still_one
(92,396 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Or is this a new found concern of yours for some reason?
still_one
(92,396 posts)has no real clear end game or clear objective.
We could, and probably will be there for years.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Personally I don't think we should have ever gone in there. Perhaps he's agreed to staying in order to not leave abruptly and try to leave it in better order than it is now?
Even so, he still has the best record on war of the two leading candidates.
still_one
(92,396 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)It even makes her likable. But since I live in the real world...
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)I love that picture!
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Of course I will vote for Hillary, especially since she is so powerful! Thanks for the reminder!
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)killed through gun violence. I ask, why can't we get congressional members to vote against the NRA and vote in sensible gun laws to prevent those who are not capable of having guns in their possession. Then I look at the history of votes and I see where Sanders has voted against the Brady Bill five times, what is the fear of the NRA, and I see where there was a donation of $18,000 from the NRA to defeat Sanders' opponent, hum, is this pay back NRA gets for this contribution? Might be. No I get reminded daily of the deaths.