2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy saying that people wouldn't vote for a socialist is disingenuous or ignorant
I know Hillary supporters cite polls that say that Americans won't vote for a socialist. But that's totally disingenuous, because it depends on a preconceived notion that Americans have of a socialist. But those definitions were put in their minds decades ago.
The current polling on whether Americans would vote for a socialist assumes that the candidate would have no chance to make a persuasive argument to voters about why they should consider them even though they are a socialist, no chance to make a persuasive argument as to why socialism is viable and not what people's preconceived notions are, and also assumes that the candidate is a full socialist. It also assumes that no matter how good a candidate may be, that people won't vote for them just because they are a socialist. This is stupid. Americans are more open minded than that. Kennedy got elected despite a lot of fear about him being a Catholic. America in current times has shown it can change already with the acceptance of gay people and changing attitudes on the war on drugs. America is a nation that is open to ideas and we are decades past the Cold War and all the propaganda that went with it.
Also, the current polling implicitly assumes that people who are against socialism are happy with capitalism. But we, in the year 2015, and anyone that has lived through the past 15 years has seen the failures of Capitalism. Thus, it should be reasonable that people nowadays would be more open to ideas about alternate economic systems, including socialism and a socialism/capitalism mix. Remember, the American people were much more friendly to the ideas of socialism and communism during the early 30's, when people saw the devastation of lassieze faire capitalism during the Great Depression.
Thus, the current polling on whether Americans would vote for a socialist is garbage, it doesn't take into account a variety of factors and it assumes that Americans are fixed in their ideas of socialism and that no matter how good that candidate may be, that the idea that they are a socialist, less a democratic socialist, is a complete deal breaker.
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)socialism isn't going to happen, frankly. The bulk of the voting population simply isn't interested in lengthy and complex explanations of what is and what is not socialism. They won't listen. They won't read.
When a poll shows that xx% of voters will refuse to vote for a candidate who identifies as a socialist, take that to the bank. They have made that decision, right or wrong, and are extremely unlikely to change their opinion.
Most voters vote almost instinctively, based on whatever their preconceptions may be. Getting them to change those basic beliefs is not something that is feasible for a campaign.
Would that it were not so. It is so, however.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)persuaded or changed to support a candidate just because they are socialist? Tell that to the Vermont Republicans who vote for Bernie.
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)Anyone who works directly with voters understands exactly what I'm saying.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)MineralMan
(146,331 posts)at all. Now President Obama has that quality. Bernie, not so much.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)I'll let someone else answer this one.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)47% enthusiastically come out in the polls much more than the 53% according to the way that elections are done in America. Political candidates in America are not just politicians but salespeople, with their task not just to convince people to vote for them but to convince them to go out of their way to the polls to vote for them as well. It doesn't matter if someone would like to vote for you, but whether someone is willing to take all the time necessary to vote for you.
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)Not one medial source covered or reported on Sanders speech on Thursday. Sanders lacks the financial resources to engage in such an extensive educational or public relations campaign to change deeply held beliefs while the Kochs and the GOP would have easy to run negative ads that would undermine such efforts and make these terms radioactive
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)"depends on a preconceived notion that Americans have of a socialist. But those definitions were put in their minds decades ago."
Modern day attempt to trivialize those who do remember, when speaking to those who were not there.
Why did "socialism" recieve such a negative notion decades ago?
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)And that a great candidate wouldn't be able to change that. If you believe otherwise, you don't know the power of psychology, including emotions.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)"you don't know the power of psychology, including emotions."
A great candidate lives in reality. Selling socialism to the USA will never happen. There has to be a balance of free enterprise, and that is where socialism fails.
It may be more feasable in a country the size of Denmark,
Denmark proper has an area of 43,094 square kilometres (16,639 sq mi), and a population of 5,699,220 (October 2015).
United States population is estimated at 322,583,006 as of July 1 2014.
Bernie Sanders fails to think outside the small State box.
He can sell it anyway he wants. Its a negative to majority of Americans & a vision of campfire kumbaya to the minority.
Good luck getting 300 mil Americans to agree on anything. Its not going to happen.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)They haven't been brainwashed with anti-socialism propaganda like previous generations. Let them decide.
#2: BERNIE IS NOT EVEN A REAL SOCIALIST AND IS NOT ADVOCATING FOR A SOCIALIST ECONOMY.
Just because Bernie describes himself as a Democratic Socialist doesn't mean that he's for completely changing the economy.
Anyway, people's fears about socialism were due to an us vs them, that we were supposed to be the opposite of those radical socialist / communist dictators, stuff that is decades old now.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)He's called himself a socialist.
He can add "democraric" all he wants, he's always been a socialist.
Now he's running from the term?
So what is he?
Blurring the lines isn't helping disguise his age old affiliation.
Typical bernie. This is how he answers every single controversial question presented.
Broad brush statements & dodges & dips & weaves around answering a specific question.
Bernir will not be caught answering, he's apparantly delegated that task to his social media small army.
Like a true Independent, he can change his mind whenever it suits him.
He's still not a Dem. He is an Independent trying to sell socialism via the Democratic name.
Bernie Sanders is a Socialist Independent.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)If you see socialist websites like WSWS and Socialistworker.org, they denounce Bernie and don't believe that he's a real socialist.
Anyway, does Bernie even advertise himself as a democratic socialist? Does Bernie go around saying that he's a Democratic Socialist? I don't think so. Not even Bernie is very passionate about the term. The Media is the one that has made it a big deal, and understandably so.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)I don't visit socialist sites.
Yes, bernie has publicly called himself a socialist.
Can't sidewind outta this one.
Sorry.
Later!
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)if one is inclined to use polling to choose a candidate.
ismnotwasm
(42,014 posts)Then I became a Democrat. I'll still vote socialist in a few local elections though