Supporters would take your advice as that really seams to be where the vitriol is coming from. Disagreement with a candidates positions and pointing out the convenient evolution lately that is most likely only temporary is not attacking anyone.

Last edited Sun Nov 22, 2015, 03:27 PM - Edit history (1)

...because at least right now it appears that Hillary has a better chance to win and she will need the unqualified support of those who supported Bernie.

he is possibly sexist and racist. This started day 1 of Bernie's campaign, where a pleasant announcement of a candidate thought to have little chance, returned to his home town, where he had been mayor and made his announcement at a beautiful waterfront park. Rather than let Bernie supporters enjoy the day, which I then thought might be the high point of an unlikely campaign -- he was blasted for having his announcement there -- because Burlington, VT is too lily white. Forget that photos of the Roosevelt Island Clinton announcement had roughly the same number of people and - from photos - they too were mostly white.

I started the 2016 race resigned to the nomination being "wired" for Clinton, who I have always thought was overhyped and overrated. I agree that she is quite intelligent, but given the high profile she has had since 1992, what she has done has not matched the hype. However, I really doubted we would have a real choice and she is better than the Republicans.

Given her advantages this time, I am stunned at the nastiness of some of her allies - starting with David Brock.

dripping from her non-remorseful hands, HRC is what I call a real buzz kill.

Not sure how anyone can keep a straight face while posting that on DU. But whatever. Nothing posted here is going to change the election, so enjoy your imagination.

I support HRC and if she is nominated, she will need Bernie supporters in the GE. The same is true that Bernie will need HRC supporters.
I know Bernie supporters irl, nice bunch of people, all but a handful are polite. There are a few I know that just hate HRC and that is their motivation for supporting Bernie they wouldn't vote for her no matter what.

I do not hate the woman personally, just don't believe she is qualified to be a leader, and I do not support Sanders because of some animosity toward Clinton, but because Sanders represents what I believe in.

Please understand that this is NOT about personality, nor about anti-personality, but about positions.

What a ridiculous lecture. Clean your own house.

....but if I let my feelings for the tactics of some of Bernie's supporters guide my actions, I won't contribute many hours of my time and a lot of my money to his campaign as I did for that of President Obama. If Bernie wins the nomination, he is going to need the help of Hillary's most passionate supporters to win the general election. It is just stupid to piss us off.

It's all Hillary. Supporters should never drive a vote, ideas should.

You will not be willing to help the candidate because you are pissed at some of his supporters...

It is stupid to piss you off but ok to piss us off.

You will take your ball and go home and pout some if we don't play your way???

--- and to some extent we are all emotional beings, not unfeeling computers. Try as they might, people will often unconsciously transfer their ill feelings for those that attack their candidates to the candidate of the attackers.

I'm not saying that is fair, or even logical, but it is human nature.

And please note, if you check all of my posts you will find that not one contains and attack on Bernie. I don't engage in stupid campaign tactics.

You are obviously making a conscious decision here that you wil not work as hard to get Bernie elected as you would for her...

I have no need whatsoever to transfer any of my feelings for or against anyone else to her, I have never liked her and never thought she was any more or even as qualified as anyone else... her main experience is/was a stint in the senate in which she did nothing to impress most people and her stint as SOS which once again didn't make much of an impression on many people... mostly she was a first lady with a husband that did a lot of damage (IMHO)(NAFTA,welfare reform) and nothing much more in the political arena as a leader of much of anything, she will follow the winds/findings of whichever focus group wall street puts together for her, and pander to big banks to the hilt.

...or don't vote, or hold your nose and vote for Hillary. Whatever you decide it is abundently clear that you aren't going to be a big help on Hillary's Presidential campaign, but we will try to manage without you.

Where we are different is illustrated by the fact that when Hillary dropped out of the race in 2007, she gave her mailing list to Barrack Obama and I joined his team when his campaign asked. I contributed many hours and too much money to try to ensure that that he won the general election, and am proud that I did.

The difference between you and me is that difference between a progressive idealist and a progressive pragmatist. And the difference between those two types comes down to which one consistently acts in his/her selfish self best interests.

I will vote for a Dem. for sure but I seriously doubt it will be Hill. if so I will once again hold my nose to vote then get the Vaseline out... for the ensuing 4 years of her reign....enough with this....

...and I don't think Bernie stands much of a chance.

Contrary to popular belief, polls are accurate within their margins of error 95.% of the time and they do canvas cell phones. (This is a subject with which I am very familiar.)

Bernie's best bet is to make a splash in the four early primaries and then ride that momentum. Unfortunately, that strategy just isn't working right now. According to RealClearPolitics.com, Bernie has fallen way behind in Iowa - 52.8% to 29.8%. and he is also behind in New Hampshire - 46.0% to 38.3% though the Fox News poll for some reason shows him almost even. In South Carolina he is barely on the radar - 70.7% to 18.0. In Nevada the news is not quite so bad - 52.5% to 26%, but those are old polls; Biden was still included and that's not normally good for Bernie.

Next up come the 12 Super Tuesday states and trust me as a Sander's supporter you don't want to go there. A survey of the polls in those states, especially those with the largest number of delegates like Texas and Virginia, would be particularly discouraging.

I base my predictions on facts, not emotions. Of course there is always the possibility that something big could turn everything on its head, but I view that as extremely unlikely. If I were a betting man, I would bet big money that Bernie will drop out of the race by the end of March - that's after the next 15 primaries following Super Tuesday. I would also bet that he will ask his supporters to vote for Clinton. Then we will see how the Sanders supporters on DU will respond to their hero request.

And oh, by the way, there are also strong indications there is also a very good chance that the Republican establishment will not be happy with their ultimate nominee and they that will even less happy with the results of the General election.

lever for her. That's if I bother to vote. My respect and affection for Senator Boxer probably ensures I will vote, but I will remember your snide and condescending tone when the GE campaign begins in earnest.

Congratulations

And even if you had planned to work for or give money to Hillary's campaign, if you let one person's statements keep you from protecting you selfish self interests, .... well, trying to keep it civil. No use continuing this conversation further.

Are not my words you copied and pasted, not that I expect either an apology or retraction from any Hillary supporter. If they can't apologize for the deaths of 1,000,000 innocent people . . .

I made the mistake of assuming your post was that of the person with whom I had been corresponding. Minutes later realized my mistake and I edited my post to its present content.

But then again you probably knew that.

And by the way, I find your comment: "If they can't apologize for the deaths of 1,000,000 innocent people " glaringly intellectually dishonest - but that wasn't a mistake was it? And you are the one who brought up the subject of "intellectual dishonesty"

Even after they are nominated.

I also have the archaic notion that my vote belongs to me. Not to a party or candidate.

At this point I don't care who you vote for or even if you vote at all.

I haven't been enthusiastic about h for years.

I am not just not that enthusiastic about her supporters. Since I only meet them here, honestly, I can only judge them here. Most are fine but there are a great number that are not.

Very little that has been posted has softened me to her. And the candidate herself as done little as well. But she does seem to be a lot more civil superficially.

poster, so that's one down. Kelliekat44 spent a full year here saying horrible things while her cohort protected her.
No such thing as a holy cohort. Shitty people will both exist on all sides and also pose as members of all sides. I support Sanders and I totally confront the assholes claiming to be Sanders supporters who get all nasty and bigoted. I do not see the same on the Hillary side, not at all. I see antisemitism practiced with impunity and homohophobia spoken without censor. I see the same cohort that does that constantly post lectures to the other cohort.

You nailed it, BNW

nt

Gee I wonder what straw broke the camel's back.

"Posted an OP claiming that the terrorist attacks in Paris were an effort to distract the public from the crimes of Jewish bankers. Posted link to disgusting antisemitic website to support this theory."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=292436&sub=trans


Spent months attacking Bernie. And LGBT.

Calling LGTB efforts for marriage equality "brazen" seems as if that was A-OK.

"Finally" is right!

That's great news.

Single Jewish Widower Into Nasty Oxen? It looks like hook up ad short hand. Straight Jewish Woman Into Nylon and Onions?

Perhaps there should be a glossary?

See, here's the difference. Hillary supporters need Bernie supporters a lot more than Bernie supporters need Hillary supporters. Do you know why? I'll explain to you. Many of Bernie's supporters would NEVER vote for Hillary, ever. They see her as a conservative and not a progressive. Many of Bernie's supporters are the ones who are truly hurting, people who are barely surviving and they see Hillary being against things as a living wage and single payer.

Just yesterday I had this said to me from a Hillary supporter here on DU in a response to me;

... and I think that is why you will find that many Clinton supporters don't even post here and most of those that do (like me) refrain from attacking Bernie personally. However, as usual, there some stupid people in every group.

The irony is strong.

I'm sorry you can't see it.

You should have saved your silly cartoon for an opportunity when it would have been appropriate.

I don't think you were speaking to me personally. You were speaking to all Sanders' supporters, though, and I belong to that group.

So I spoke back to you as a member of all Clinton supporters. I see you don't appreciate it when it's on the other foot. Maybe that's why it's not wise to make such broad-brush pronouncements.

I also see that you still don't get the irony. Perhaps you never read any of the things Clinton supporters say about Sanders supporters. Perhaps you don't get that the "offending people to the point they aren't there in the GE" is a two-way street.

As I said. Irony.

But if you make a survey of all of the recent posts in this Primary board, you will find a number of posts where it is obvious that the posters really hate Clinton. They refer to her in terms that most of the people on DU reserve only for the most horrid right wingers. I'll bet that you will rarely if every find that level venom of that sort directed at Sanders. And you know what, unless sane Sanders supporters repudiate those kinds of attacks, many will assume that they condone them.

it's not directed at Sanders. Sanders gets disdain. The hate is directed at his supporters. Your post just feeds it.

I think they are in a small minority, but since it appears that Clinton has a very good chance of winning this thing - my warning is even more appropriate for Clinton supporters.

Then shouldn't you have a "Message to Clinton supporters" op in the General Primary forum?

There hasn't been a single vote cast. Any fool that thinks it's over already, is a complete fucking idiot.

That would be why I made the statement.

We should be wise to not piss of Hillary supporters like you?

We should tread more carefully?



Wow you are definitely a cocky one!

Clinton supporters by and far come from the registered Democratic base. Can you guess the percentage of registered voters who are Democrats? About 33% are according to last months data.

Independents, by and far, make up the bulk of the votes needed both in the primary and in the general.

Clinton supporters need Sanders supporters far more than we need y'all. As registered Dems y'all will vote for just about anyone with a D after their name whether they are a neoliberal, a progressive, or a once Republican, now Democrat.

Sorry, we independents, Greens, and non-affiliated progressive leftists won't.

So to use your words, you might want to tread more carefully going forward and stop pissing off Sanders supporters like me and the majority here at DU. God forbid she wins the primary, but if she does, y'all are up shit creek in the GE without us.

Registered indy until I found that i could not vote for Bernie in the primary here, changed to Dem so I can do so, will re-register indy after that..

... as will any candidate who wins either the Republican or Democratic nomination. However, let's not pretend the the tiny segment of progressives who frequent DU are representative of any group other than themselves.

The site especially the "Primary" board seems to attract some of the most far left progressives around, and more than a few are not Democrats. They are attracted here because they are excited that someone who represents their views has a chance to win the nomination of a major party and thus has a chance to actually win the Presidency. I have "talked" with more than a few DU Sanders supporters who will not vote for the Democratic nominee if Sanders does not win the nomination. They will either not vote or more likely vote for a third party candidate "who represents there views".

In addition there are Sanders supporters have posed here that they will "hold their noses" and vote for Clinton is she is the nominee. Others have posted since they live in blue states they have the luxury of not voting. I'm not expecting a great deal of financial or personal support from those people for a Hillary campaign should she become the nominee.

There are also some on the far right that will sit out the election if the most conservative candidate doesn't win the Republican nomination. However, those kind of people both on the far left and the far right are not essential to either party being victorious in November. However, I am sure there are many Sanders supporters who will react as I did when Hillary lost out to Barrack in 2008 and will generously support the Clinton campaign with their time and their money if she wins the nomination.

You joined last summer and pull wild assumptions out of your ass!

DU is dominated by progressives - both registered Democrats and left leaning unaffiliateds.

The irony is that more newbie Clinton supporters have shown up in the last six months than Sanders supporters. Old zombie accounts with nary a posting history suddenly became alive with linked to articles, SuperPAC propaganda, and the like.

Yes, there are numerous Sanders supporters here and out there that will not hold their noses and vote yet again for the lesser of two corporate. They are not the 'fringe' left.

The far right which you dismiss have taken over the GOP, and they are having no problems getting elected all the way down on the local levels. The far right rarely sit out elections during any year. And hot damn, they will turn out like ants at a picnic to vote against the devil herself, if Clinton gets the nod.

That the shine hasn't worn off yet explains DU and DU'ers to me, don't you Autumn?

as many others have pointed out, she needs bernie/om supporters more than bernie needs hillary supporters, although any dem candidate will need as much support as possible. but many here seem to delight in tearing down bernie, his supporters, or celebrating the nomination before a single person has voted.

i have no issue with anyone being happy about good poll numbers or taking a position on an issue. but gleefully rubbing people's faces in the dirt whose candidate has a significant percentage of dem/indy support is a great way to make sure they stay home or vote third.

good luck with that going against trump.

Good on you CajunBlazer!

HRC supporters appear to be a lot more positive in their tone, if DU thread titles are any indication.

Let's support our chosen candidates with a positive message about them and towards them, without mud slinging.

I see so many negative SBS supporter threads, I just ignore even going into them.

For me the choice between HRC & SBS is like the choice between which ocean is bluer, the Pacific or the Atlantic. We can argue which is which, but overall we still love both oceans. I'll vote for whomever is our candidate because I love them both as individuals I look up to.

You should read their responses to positive Bernie Sanders threads. If someone posts a positive news item about Sanders there's a minimum of at least one derogatory Clinton poster.

And FTR I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with your premise. Bernie CAN win. And just like 2008, there is no love lost between Clinton supporters and the supporters of the candidate (2008 & 2016) they view as daring to challenge her. And just like 2008, if Hillary loses the primary again, I fully expect many of her supporters to go full PUMA and lose their shit again whereas Bernie's supporters will simply vote their conscience based on their principled view of the issues.

If you go back and read my post carefully you will not that i never said that Bernie won't win. In fact I was cautioning his supporters not to act like butts now if they want the help of Clinton supporters if he does win.

Clinton supporters can either get with the program or sod off.

Bernie has a wider base of support for the General Election. According to Gallup, 40% of registered voters identify as Independents and Bernie is doing very well with them.

In answer to your retort, you referenced the meme that "Bernie can't win" and it was that I referred to.

is those same polls indicate he has almost no chance to win the nomination so what he could do in the general election is moot.

hubris sets one up for an embarrassing faceplant

If Bernie had the same leads that Clinton now has in the national and state polls, I would be confidently predicting that he would win the nomination.

At this point in the campaign in 2007 Obama was doing much better in the polls of the early primaries. What people thought at the time that he might win some of the early states, but Hillary would easily over take him later. Obviously that didn't happen.

After the four early primaries in February (Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada - Clinton leads big in all except NH where her lead is smaller) comes Super Tuesday. If you don't mind being further discouraged, go look at what polls you can find for those 12 states; there are recent ones for the biggest states like Texas and Virginia.

And you're setting yourself up for a big let down if you believe the polls are wrong. All of the good ones you will see listed on sites like RealClearPolitics.com canvas cell phones users.

Now there is still hope for Bernie. Something big might happen which could turn all of this on its head, but I think that's very unlikely.

The lesson (apparently not learned) is don't count your Third Way politicians before they hatch.

For one thing, Hillary's lead over Bernie in the early states is much larger now than was her lead over Obama at this point of the 2008 campaign. For another, the important Afro American vote is firmly in Hillary's corner this time around.

If you want evidence of this check out the polls in South Carolina. Hillary lost badly in South Carolina in 2007, but right now she leads in that state 70.7% to 18.0 for a 52.7% margin (average of last three polls taken between 10/24 and 11/8). RealClearPolitics.com - SC Polls I don't see that lead going away.

In the egg hatching department, there is always an outside chance that something big could turn this situation on it's head, but I wouldn't count on it.

It's tough making a persuasive argument when it's prefaced by the inability to spell one of the widely known character's name correctly.

everyone know you have no counterpoint to make.

(Can you find the misspelling on this message?)

And oh, by the way, I appreciate you for continuing to kick this thread to the top of the board; a lot more people had an opportunity to read it because of you.

That mindset is understandable since 2008 was hers to lose and boy did she, but in reality it's just wishful thinking on your part. Many were here 8 years ago and followed the campaign painstakingly. If you've gleaned nothing else from 2008, the lesson to be learned is that anything can happen. External events, candidate self-immolation, indictments - anything. I get that you're new here, so I'm glad to grant you some grace in that regard and kick your OP with the understanding that pontificating about the future is self-indulgent and not changing minds.

Have a great T-giving.

How about a friendly little bet - and no, nothing as obscene as money. Here are the suggested terms: If and when one of our candidates loses the nomination or drops out of the race, the supporter of the losing candidate has to publicly apologize in a post on the DU General Discussion board to the other party and admit that he/she was totally wrong in his/her predictions and that he/she bows down to the others superior predictive powers The post must also include the little "bowing down" emoji.

And oh, the post also needs to needs to explain the reason for the post and the loser must inform the other party of the date and time the post is made via private message or email.

If you want to adjust the terms, let me know.

Are you game? Are you ready to hand shake virtually?

Might want to try it sometime.

Means many people from the left are not going to accept modest reforms to a corrupted pol itical system.Bernie Sanders is helping expose the system,so criticism of Clinton is part of that,it has been emphasized ad infinitum that criticizing Clinton is not tearing her down.That will not change.I remember when Kucinich was marginalized,he said crazy things like Department of Peace he was my candidate at the time,more then ever we need people that will stand for Peace.Libya regime change has shown the willingness of Hillary Clinton's agenda.Bush like.No thanks!Not only that she invoked 911,using fear again,no thank you.

...how's that High Horse thingy goin' for you?

In other words you are telling Sanders supporters to be nice to Clinton or you won't vote for him if he is the nominee.

Somehow, I don't think you are going to get the reaction you're hoping for.

Support whoever you want but don't presume to tell me what to do.

That way we avoid the problem of putting your words in my mouth. I was saying that people are human and that if you tick them off they are less likely to fully support your candidate. I don't think you can refute that logic.

As for what reaction I might get, that depends on the you and other Sanders supporters. You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

But my thoughts are that it is stupid not act in your own selfish self interests.

But withholding your support for someone because you dislike his supporters is definitely not in anybody's self interest.

Who you vote for or support is entirely your business and it really is none of my concern.

I support Senator Sanders, if that bothers you somehow, then you are the one with the problem and not me.

-- I will vote for Bernie if he is the nominee. However, I will admit that if Sanders Supporters continue to tick me off, I may be less enthusiastic than I would be otherwise donating my time and money to his campaign.

I think that you will find that the case among Bernie's supporters as well. Hell, a good number of them have stated that they will even not vote for Hillary in the general election under any circumstances. Now that is what I call acting against your selfish self interests.

You just supported a statement I made about some Sanders supporters in response to one of replies yo this post.

you put your shoulder joint out of place patting yourself on your back. This spiel of yours is so familiar, something we hear over and over. It was steer manure the first time and it''s just more fragrant now.

I made no reference to Hillary or Bernie supporters when I wrote that it was stupid to attack other people's Democratic candidates. I meant it as advice to everyone.

While not one Hillary supporter appeared to be offended by that, I got many replies from Sanders supporters advising me what I could do with my advice. Why do you think that is? And no, it is not because I am well known as a Hillary supporter; in one reply someone claimed that he/she had outed me as a Hilliary fan. LOL

Maybe you have heard the same "spiel" so many times there is good reason for it. It's likely that people are getting sick and tired of all of the vicious attacks on Democratic candidates, especially when those attacks sometimes come from people who swear they won't vote for the Democratic nominee if it isn't Bernie. We don't put up with that kind of "steer manure" on this board when it comes from Republicans, why should we put up with it when it comes from those folks. They sure as hell aren't Democrats.

A Bernie Supporters Bad.....Hillary Supporters pure as the driven snow OP redux.

#4596.

Seriously get some new material.

and now you have more?

Bernie Sanders supporters do not need your permission to do what they want. Are some good and some bad? Sure, but you are lecturing to grownups who do not need to be told how this works 5 times a week like this.

Really, do you think we are all 12 years old and have never had a civics lesson?

I can take the anger around here, I can take defending against lies. I cannot and will not take being condescended to by someone who obviously has not the ability to think that they don't know everything. Perhaps you should clean your own room so that there is room for thoughts about how this really works instead of thinking you have all the answers. "Here, let ME tell the whole lot of you how you are wrong and you need to do it my way."

Honestly. Keep your "important" PSA's in your own head.

But you would have a hard time arguing the logic of not ticking off possible future allies

You display you indignation to your hear's content, but if we're as smart as they pretend to be remind of things that just common sense.

vicious and in league with RW memes and links and opinions....big, big, difference of many.

superstar Donnie McClurkin to preach for him at events in which LGBT were openly denigrated as part of the pander for delegates thing Obama and Clinton were doing. Obama also traveled more than once to Rick Warren's mega white mega church to rant against LGBT live in person. When he won, Obama invited Warren to officiate the Inaugural, days after Warren publicly equated all same sex couples to pedophiles. In league with the right and extremely vicious about it.

I hate dragging this shit up again, but you Straight Centrists want to revise history and that is not acceptable.

Voters to never, ever vote for h, even in a magazine poll.


Doing a bang up job!

If you thought that the Sanders supporters would respond in any other fashion than by proclaiming their victimhood and denouncing the moral degeneracy of anyone who does not support their candidate, you were fooling yourself.