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brooklynite

(94,598 posts)
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:24 PM Nov 2015

Which States won by Clinton in 2008 will Sanders win in 2016?

...because that's the only way he can win the nomination. It's not enough to say that Sanders will win all the Obama States, because that includes all the southern States he won on the strength of support for the first serious Black candidate, and which now seem to be clearly in Clinton's camp.

nb - I'll concur that Sanders is competitive in NH, but that'll get him a marginal number of delegates. What else can he pick up? NY? PA? OH? CA? TX? What other opportunities does he have?

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Which States won by Clinton in 2008 will Sanders win in 2016? (Original Post) brooklynite Nov 2015 OP
I can say with confidence that Clinton will win Tennessee resoundingly. cheapdate Nov 2015 #1
How the heck would I know? lovemydog Nov 2015 #2
Speculation: Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition brooklynite Nov 2015 #3
No prediction is 100% accurate. lovemydog Nov 2015 #5
Let's wait and see, sadoldgirl Nov 2015 #4
That's actually a much better lovemydog Nov 2015 #6
None Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #7
Vote for my candidate because they are inevitable Cheese Sandwich Nov 2015 #8
I could see Bernie stealing New York away from Hillary. That would be a big one. reformist2 Nov 2015 #9
I cannot predict any for him. bravenak Nov 2015 #10
All of 'em. eom NorthCarolina Nov 2015 #11
If the election were tomorrow, and national, you'd be asking a reasonable question. jeff47 Nov 2015 #12
You're right - but I think that's a big problem for Bernie... Drunken Irishman Nov 2015 #13
24 point edge that specifically exclude his "base". jeff47 Nov 2015 #14
Don't be fooled into creating your own poll math. Drunken Irishman Nov 2015 #16
I'm not. I'm expressing doubts that the methodology has "kept up with the times" jeff47 Nov 2015 #18
Just don't build your expectations around doubts... Drunken Irishman Nov 2015 #19
People don't say "we'll see what happens" when they are building massive expectations. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #20
Why do you keep posting polls Doctor_J Nov 2015 #15
No, neither do I think I'll convince anyone here... brooklynite Nov 2015 #17
Not a single one MaggieD Nov 2015 #21

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
2. How the heck would I know?
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:28 PM
Nov 2015

My guess is that he won't win many or any of the States won by Clinton in 2008. But we're all just speculating until people vote.

brooklynite

(94,598 posts)
3. Speculation: Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:33 PM
Nov 2015

I'm not engaging in speculation; I'm making predictions based on historical facts (the 2008 campaign) and data (the 2016 polls, contact with professionals in the field, etc)

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
5. No prediction is 100% accurate.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:40 PM
Nov 2015

That's why it's a prediction. Crazy stuff can happen. People can die or drop out of races. My prediction as of today is that Sanders will win maybe one or two States. But who the heck knows. He could win all of them. That's what makes it kind of fun. We get to vote. I will probably vote for Sanders if he's still in the race by the time the primaries roll around to my State. That's about all I can say with even the slightest degree of accuracy right now. That could change by the time the primary reaches my State. I know you enjoy predictions. I do too. But I think we've seen so many predictions here that are over the top insane. 'Bernie will win all 50 States!' 'Bernie has no chance of winning any States!' I think you're smart enough and read enough to know which predictions are more accurate than others. I think Nate Silver and some other places are giving some pretty good predictions. But even they concede that primary predictions based on historical facts aren't so perfect. Results of primary votes are shall we say a much better indicator.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
4. Let's wait and see,
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:33 PM
Nov 2015

but it seems that VT will give him its blessing.
there are good possibilities for WA, CA, OR, as
well as CO.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
8. Vote for my candidate because they are inevitable
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:46 PM
Nov 2015

My candidate is winning everywhere and every single one of your base are belong to us.

Meanwhile your candidate is weak and puny and can not win anywhere.

QED

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
10. I cannot predict any for him.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:50 PM
Nov 2015

With the high number of black voters in the party in those states I absolutely see no wins for him in those states. Relationships would have had to have been built with the black demographic in all areas for that to be a possibility.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
12. If the election were tomorrow, and national, you'd be asking a reasonable question.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:12 PM
Nov 2015

Since neither is true, that makes any response pretty meaningless.

If Obama had lost IA and thus only had SC going into Super Tuesday, he likely would have lost the nomination. That IA victory caused a significant number of voters to stop and take a closer look at Obama.

As a result, you can't use national polling today to predict the flow of the primary. Winning in early states creates far more change than any amount of campaigning. And polls in IA this far out are notoriously bad. Remember, Clinton was doing quite well in 2008...right until she came in third.

Also, constantly throwing up current poll numbers in the hopes that all of Sanders supporters will give up is very tiresome. By now, it should be utterly obvious to you that this approach does not work at all on Sanders supporters. All it does is let you feel smug. Though given the number of times you post essentially the same thing, smug is apparently your primary goal.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
13. You're right - but I think that's a big problem for Bernie...
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:43 PM
Nov 2015

Iowa is a must-win because it's the only way he could ever hope to steal momentum from Hillary. Obama did it. But Obama also was going to win a few states regardless of Iowa. But you're right, he wasn't going to win the nomination if he lost Iowa.

Bernie isn't doing nearly as well in state polling as Obama and that means he's likely a Howard Dean-like candidate - momentum is there but it will peter out quickly with a loss.

Clinton has a 24 point edge on Bernie in Iowa right now in the average of polls. That's quite the gap to close. It can be done, certainly, but to compare, in 2008, Obama trailed Clinton by just three-points in Iowa at this point in 2007.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
14. 24 point edge that specifically exclude his "base".
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:53 PM
Nov 2015

A whole lot of those polls use "likely voter" screens that exclude anyone who didn't vote in 2008. Which means they throw out anyone under 26.

Also, an enormous number of those polls are 80-100% landline...and most of those that are 80% use online polling to fill the remaining 20%.

Lastly, caucuses are primarily won via enthusiasm - that's how Dean lost. Big numbers, but few who'd bother with going to the caucus. Clinton's not doing very well in enthusiasm in those same polls that give her such a lead. Meanwhile, Sanders supporters are quite enthusiastic.

IOW, I'm not so sure we can trust polling like we used to. We'll see if I'm wrong in a few months.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
16. Don't be fooled into creating your own poll math.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:59 PM
Nov 2015

Dick Morris did the exact same thing in 2012 to prop up the idea that Obama couldn't be winning in the polls because they were all basing it on 2008 and the election was going to be like 2010.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
18. I'm not. I'm expressing doubts that the methodology has "kept up with the times"
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:07 PM
Nov 2015

And I'm not insisting I'm right. Instead, I specifically say we'll find out if those doubts are justified in a few months.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
19. Just don't build your expectations around doubts...
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:17 PM
Nov 2015

Have doubts, but also realize that when polls converge on a consensus they're going to be way more right than wrong.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
15. Why do you keep posting polls
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:54 PM
Nov 2015

when Sanders supporters keep posting issues? Do you think we're going to suddenly stop caring about healthcare and TPP and social security and living wage because you post another poll?

brooklynite

(94,598 posts)
17. No, neither do I think I'll convince anyone here...
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:02 PM
Nov 2015

This is a discussion Board. People here like to discuss politics. That includes news relating to politics, such as polls. If that bothers you, you might want to express your concerns to the Sanders people currently trumpeting the ABC poll.

Add to which, I refer to no polls at all in the OP; I ask the Sanders people to tell me how he's going to win a national election. Still waiting.

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