2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSo the defense of Bernie Sanders' lack of a foreign policy is to make up shit about Hillary
Bernie gives the same speech he's given for 40 years at every venue he goes to.
I don't even need to go to one of his functions to know what he has to say. I've heard it on "brunch with Bernie" for years on Thom Hartman's radio show. I heard it in two debates so far. Probably if we had 100 more debates we would hear it 100 more times.
Free tuition
$15 per hour
Family leave
Job creation
single payer
break up big banks
the top 1% have most of the wealth
Take the country back form the oligarchs
These are all good things
What is lacking is the "how do we get there" and a foreign policy
Now in defense of the above we hear this:
Hillary is a war monger
Hillary is in bed with Wall Street
Hillary is a republican
Hillary is not progressive
Hillary is not a Democrat
Hillary is Bill Clinton II
For six months now I have been waiting for Bernie to tell me how we get there.
Maybe Bernie will get the message like he did with BLM (when he added social justice) and add to his stump speech some "how" instead of just "what."
My dread is that Bernie is like Bill McKay in the movie "The Candidate"
Bill McKay, a novice who has just won an improbable victory, turns dazedly to his campaign manager and asks, "What do we do now?"
Bernie is really no leader. He is mostly a rehearsed set of talking points.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)...call the Whambulence.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)monger. Problem is Sanders is not efficient on foreign affairs but yet he has voted for more military actions than Hillary has. Saying Hillary is a war monger has not helped Sanders in the area of foreign affairs, he is still deficient.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)or to do Stupid Shit.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)They are totally invested in this fake construct they have built up.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)he did NOT vote for military action in iraq
that was someone else
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Granted, she supported the IRW and invading Iraq to force regime change there, she argued forcefully for regime change in Libya, she wanted an even bigger increase in troops in Afghanistan, she now wants no fly zones and American soldiers on the ground in Syria and Iraq, and she refused to admit that the bombing of Gaza was disproportionate. But those actions are just flukes. I mean, everyone has a bad day once in awhile, right?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)experienced in foreign affairs and the only other presidential candidate in which she can compare is Lindsey Graham and the GOP is looking past Graham as their nominee. We need a strong foreign affairs to be president, that person who is able is Hillary Clinton.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Foreign experience.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I know where HIllary stands on killing innocent people and it disgusts me.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Understand what he votes for or against.
RichVRichV
(885 posts)why is it he could see through Bush's lies on the AUMF when Hillary couldn't?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)RichVRichV
(885 posts)Didn't take you long to realize you were going to lose that debate and fall back to guns. I expected you to at least put up a little bit of a fight on the topic at hand.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)supposed to be talking about foreign policy, was told the first question was going to be about foreign affairs and he danced to finance. Exactly what I thought why is he talking about financial when he is supposed to be on foreign affairs.
I was pointing out Sanders lies when he is giving excuses, why does he think we don't see through his lies?
RichVRichV
(885 posts)Just like the first debate had opening remarks. There was no question asked there. And opening remarks are open to all subjects.
Go rewatch it. You obviously didn't catch that the first time around.
riversedge
(70,310 posts)kills innocent people in wars when he votes to fund these wars.
Crystalite
(164 posts)This fact seems to escape Hillary's fan base.
Having served in a cabinet post does not a good president make.
And Bernie's experience as an elected official eclipses hers.
This is all so silly.
Go Bernie!
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)before he started his first term, was George H. W. Bush.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Understanding foreign policy, I would have thought twenty five years of being in congress would have helped him, it hasn't.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Contractors, guess he had a grasp on taking care of the contractors.
eridani
(51,907 posts)If they are in harm's way, they need to be supplied. Sanders did not vote to put them in harm's way--it was Clinton who did that.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Sanders continues to vote for the F-35 program and the experts say it will lose in a dog fight, ergo putting our military in harms way.
eridani
(51,907 posts)--who all knew that. Not only did she vote for it, she led cheerleading for it. You can't really vote against the F-35, as there is no such thing as a bill that is solely about funding it. Funding for it is attached to other funding bills that are necessary for funding general operations.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)The F-35 program is a Lockheed Martin project, over budget and overdue.
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/24583-bernie-sanders-doubles-down-on-f-35-support-days-after-runway-explosion
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6458446
eridani
(51,907 posts)Probably the best thing to do would be to start over, but then all the sunk costs become worthless.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)silenttigersong
(957 posts)were there any candidates for Sec of State more qualified and overlooked ,so Hillary could pad her resume for the 2016 Prez run?Sure she has exp ,sure is well known to foreign dignitaries.It obviously was a Power deal with Obama .I think this is what upsets people with her.Just like Crony Capitalists.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Actually she could have remained as Senator from NY, she was doing quiet well in that position. Perhaps if Sanders would have been qualified to be SOS maybe President Obama would have ask him but he chose Hillary instead. Sanders has his cronies, like Lockheed Martin and the NRA.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)"The lack of foreign affairs ability was very oblivious" - sometimes the typos reveal the truth.
aikoaiko
(34,184 posts)He hadn't adopted the language of BLM yet but if you watch this short video the night before Netroots Nation 2015 and the BLMs first disruption of a Bernie Sanders presentation.
https://m.
But to the point of your OP. Bernie is successfully leading 30% of the Democratic Party to date.
Crystalite
(164 posts)One doesn't come across that often.
And it's clear that supporters of the status quo are VERY threatened by him.
This entire OP is evidence of that.
A post titled "made up shit" which is, itself, made up shit.
Right?
Lans
(66 posts)Is the only sensible one, if you think that the US needs to act as the World Police and choose which brutal dictator should be in power than obviously you have the wrong priorities.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)By someone without knowledge of foreign knowledge, thanks for providing his statement.
Lans
(66 posts)I'm telling you the reality of the situation, tell me out of tens of regime changes the US has tried to implement in the last 65 years which have been a resounding success. Starting in Syria in 1949 the overthrowing of dictators or regimes inconvenient to USA regional interests have proved to only breed more chaos and devastation:
Syria
Iran
Guatemala
Iraq
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Vietnam
Chile
Afghanistan
You can look into all the success with regime changes. All these countries which we propped up different factions sometimes at different times are pretty much standard bearers of democracy.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)The title was Bernie's foreign policy, thought you had his statement.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Now she's Margaret Thatcher.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I kinda figured it would be a 24-hour fad. Maybe it will replace the "it's-2008-all-over-again" meme. (That one continues to amuse me.)
4139
(1,893 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Got it.
Oh, but you may want to shore up the OP a little, since you made a claim you're unable to support, namely that people here are making things up about Hillary Clinton in order to defend Sanders. Just saying shit and pretending it's true is the domain of the George W Bush administration. On our side of the fence, we require an actual rationale. You're missing that piece.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)So sorry her own record just doesn't fit with the narrative you're trying to push for her. Although if you just wait a bit she'll probably adopt rhetoric that fits her actual past a bit better. Assuming you actually SUPPORT that record.
Broward
(1,976 posts)Why support someone in bed with Wall Street?
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)As for me, I think Sanders would have a good foreign policy. Vis a vis his appointments. But I think his chances of winning the nomination are very slim. I do hope that if Hillary wins the nomination and presidency, she would make good appointments too. Frankly I don't think there would be much difference in their foreign policy because most of that seems run by most of the same people. Joint Chiefs of Staff. What I'm hoping is that we avoid is another W. Administration of chickenhawks who start wars against the wrong countries. I think President Obama avoided that. I think Hillary or Bernie would avoid that too.
Response to upaloopa (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Hillary is a war monger
Hillary is in bed with Wall Street
Hillary is a republican
Hillary is not progressive
Hillary is not a Democrat
Hillary is Bill Clinton II
bernie himself did not say the above. he has called out clinton on her ties to wall street and her support of military action, but he certainly did not use the above terminology.
you did not accuse him of doing it, but just wanted to remind everyone
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Sanders is a war monger
Sanders is saying in bed with Lockheed Martin
Sanders is a independent, using the DNC
Sanders is a socialist
Hillary has been a Democrat, not just in the last few months
Sanders is June Sanders II
I am calling Sanders out for being war monger, voted for military action more times than Hillary has
He hasn't met a defense contract he would not vote and is able to keep the F-35 program going though the experts says it would lose in a dog fight. A war monger who wants to keep wars going in order to fund defense contractors.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)war monger...did not vote for iwr and does not like NF zone over syria and has called out many including hillary for too much military intervention
lockheed martin...need to research his ties (being honest here)
yes has been indy now dem...caucused with dems for bazillion yrs and is more progressive than some dems
socialist....yeah, good its what we need
dem/indy addressed above
i don't know who june sanders is
f35.... dont like it but not gonna withdraw my support for him based on that alone
TM99
(8,352 posts)His experience, his stance, and some of his quotes.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Foreign_Policy.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/International/Bernie_Sanders_Foreign_Policy.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-determined-heard-foreign-policy/story?id=35295352
The only reason why you see Clinton as being attacked is because she has one stance - neocon military intervention. Her record is replete with examples. Sanders argues quite effectively that had we not gone to war in Iraq, the current crisis would not exist. So his goals will be to avoid such future mistakes - such as Clinton's support for troops on the ground and an expanded war effort in Syria.
Alfresco
(1,698 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)NOT presidential material.
RichVRichV
(885 posts)What does that say about Hillary who fell for it?
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Hillaryspeak is spinning out of control
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)He has only gone so far and stalled. It is over except for the votes. It is not even a debate anymore. More moving on to the general.
Being the pragmatic gal I am.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)To no longer hearing from you?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)It really isn't all that difficult to discuss things here without being rude.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Seriously?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)"Nope. You will have to get me five hides, again. Sigh..... ah well, that damn freedom of speech."
I responded to your bringing this subject up right here in this thread.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Shit about Sanders supporters, so why not?
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)something about sauces and geese goes here, I think.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)He died, and what was left behind can only be classified as a failed state.
Assad kicked sand all over the red line the President and his Secretary of State drew in the sand. He gassed his own people, and laughed at The President and his Secretary of State.
You can't make shit like that up either. Hollywood would have a hard time writing material that reaches that level of ineptitude.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)How much is necessary? Sanders has common sense, he doesn't have to hire focus groups and do polling to tell him right from wrong.
You are obsessed with his stump speech? Why can't you list the main policy goals of Hillary? Seems you can spit out Sanders from the top of your head, but never hers if she even has any.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)he held a conference on the failure of Greece ?? What foreign policy hasn't he covered ?
peacebird
(14,195 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)The part about not doing it alone is critical. To begin with, unlike most candidates, Sanders concedes that weve being going it alone for decades now, with disastrous results.
Our response must begin with an understanding of past mistakes and missteps in our previous approaches to foreign policy. It begins with the acknowledgement that unilateral military action should be a last resort and that ill-conceived military decisions, such as the invasion of Iraq, can wreak far-reaching devastation and destabilize entire regions for decades. It begins with the reflection that the failed policy decisions of the past rushing to war, regime change in Iraq, or toppling Mossadegh in Iran in 1953, or Guatemalan President Arbenz in 1954, Brazilian President Goulart in 1964, Chilean President Allende in 1973. These are the sort of policies that do not work, do not make us safer, and must not be repeated.
Its astonishing how many candidates on the Right in particular simply refuse to acknowledge that our previous encroachments around the world have done more harm than good (For example, our invasion of Iraq created the vacuum into which ISIS inserted itself).
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)Now that she thinks she has won the nom.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Finger in the button and all that. He'll never get my vote. I don't want a nuclear war.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Very unfair of him to neglect to mention that they were black sanitation workers trying to get the same pay and treatment as white sanitation workers. Many felt erased from history. That is just one example. The rural/urban/gang talk also.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Hillary is not a leader. She is mostly a rehearsed set of talking points.
There.
Thought you should look in the mirror for a minute.
jfern
(5,204 posts)No one made her say that. That was a terrible comment.
As for foreign policy, you are confusing most experienced with any good on the issues. Dick Cheney has more foreign policy experience than Hillary. But Bernie is a lot better on the issues.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)But I note you cannot list Clintons. Is this because you DON'T know where she stands on any given day?