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riversedge

(70,242 posts)
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 03:51 PM Nov 2015

But it’s hard to attract huge crowds by calling for reasonableness.

TWEET:

Leslie Lindholm and 31 others follow
Women G 4 Hillary ?@WomenG4Hillary 2h2 hours ago Gainesville, FL

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/29/politics/hillary-clinton-infrastructure-spending/index.html

Does anyone else seem to be rolling out detailed policy plans? C'mon boys...

#HardHatsForHillary #Hillary2016






Why Hillary Clinton is more progressive than Bernie Sanders, in one sentence

By Stephen Stromberg



Bernie Sanders attracted a 20,000-person crowd in Boston over the weekend with his uncreative wish list of a platform, in which college would be free for all, Social Security would be expanded for all and medical coverage would be highly subsidized for all — regardless of whether you actually need the help. Hillary Clinton finally pushed back Monday against “progressives” who propose shoveling public benefits at rich and poor alike. One sentence in particular drew a clear distinction between her campaign and Sanders’s:

“I am not in favor of making college free for Donald Trump’s kids,” she said, after explaining that “I’m a little different from those who say free college for everybody.”

She then pitched her college affordability proposal, which would allow students to graduate debt free but wouldn’t end tuition or work requirements. Clinton’s system would be means-tested: Those who can afford to invest in their educations would have to. Sanders’s wouldn’t be.

Sanders’s platform isn’t visionary, it’s dull...........................

Real progressives seek to show that government can operate smartly, not haphazardly. Real progressives spend money on urgent needs, not on the rich.

But it’s hard to attract huge crowds by calling for reasonableness.

....................................

BIG DAY FOR HILLARY IN BOSTON




Impact Democracy and 23 others follow
Tim Chaisson ?@UAOrganizer550 1h1 hour ago

@MetroBTC members out in force for @HillaryClinton in #Boston @UAPipeTrades @BK537 @busagent12 #HardHatsForHillary






64 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
But it’s hard to attract huge crowds by calling for reasonableness. (Original Post) riversedge Nov 2015 OP
You mean Status Quo!! nt Live and Learn Nov 2015 #1
That is the political science definition of a conservative. AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #2
By her own admission she isn't progressive (liberal) AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #3
It means she's smart and knows how NurseJackie Nov 2015 #5
It means 'all things to all people' AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #7
There are no silver medals in politics. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #11
If there were, she would have won it in 2008. bvf Nov 2015 #18
You guess incorrectly. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #19
happens a lot. te he. riversedge Nov 2015 #35
Well, she obviously hasn't gotten bvf Nov 2015 #37
All evidence suggests otherwise. NurseJackie Nov 2015 #46
By all means, bvf Nov 2015 #47
LOL NurseJackie Nov 2015 #48
Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #51
Well, where is your evidence, we're still waiting for it. marble falls Nov 2015 #63
"without being divisive"? Surely you jest Armstead Nov 2015 #23
Without being divisive..... artislife Nov 2015 #43
You get my meaning. You are, of course, free to interpret ... NurseJackie Nov 2015 #45
Mr. Stromberg has got it all wrong about higher education proposals. Juicy_Bellows Nov 2015 #4
Bingo. Bernie Sanders' plan for free college would be a bold change. Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #30
Why should parents pay for their adult children's college tuition? Bread and Circus Nov 2015 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Armstead Nov 2015 #24
Those wishing for "Pie in the sky" follow the PIEd Piper. oasis Nov 2015 #8
Let's get rid of Social Security and Medicare and all social safety net programs Armstead Nov 2015 #25
Chill. You know what "pie" I'm referring to, and oasis Nov 2015 #28
No you are making a dismissive assertionm that is similar Armstead Nov 2015 #38
Congress would have to approve that "small tax" you speak of. oasis Nov 2015 #41
Will Clinton or any democratic president be able to sweet talk them into anything? Armstead Nov 2015 #49
Hillary proposes attainable goals. The Clinton's have oasis Nov 2015 #53
I've paid into Social Security and Medicare redstateblues Nov 2015 #31
"Free" college would also be paid for with a tax Armstead Nov 2015 #36
Same for Idaho. The Blue Traveller Nov 2015 #44
Are there people out there dumb enough to buy this crap? Broward Nov 2015 #9
I strongly object to any plan that ties student plans to their parents in any way. For many students Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #10
+1000 nt Live and Learn Nov 2015 #12
Means testing is the establishments way of keeping people in their place and Live and Learn Nov 2015 #13
and a way to insure it will forever be unpopular. Social Security and Medicare are not means tested Douglas Carpenter Nov 2015 #20
Of course she knows it. She doesn't seem to care. nt Live and Learn Nov 2015 #21
excellent points Vattel Nov 2015 #32
Repairing, replacing and improving our infrastructure is getting jobs Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #14
And Bernie is opposed to it Armstead Nov 2015 #26
I have no idea, perhaps you could check with his campaign. Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #27
That Stromberg opinion piece is two months old. Fawke Em Nov 2015 #15
HELL YES! elleng Nov 2015 #16
High is low. Black is White. Caterpillars are Frogs. Hillary is a Progressive. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #17
Kick for Hillary.. thank you, rivers! Cha Nov 2015 #22
Yeah we can't offer public education can we? That would be unfair to all those poor children.... Armstead Nov 2015 #39
So if we eliminated free high school, that would be more progressive Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #29
Hillary's plan is dumb. Vattel Nov 2015 #33
Ugh, is she still pushing that free college for Trump's kids BS? bobbobbins01 Nov 2015 #34
THIS Stephen Stromberg ??? WillyT Nov 2015 #40
KICK for Hillary!.. don't care what BS's fans have to say. Cha Nov 2015 #42
k&r rbrnmw Nov 2015 #50
Hard to believe the "WE CAN'T" campaign has trouble attracting crowds. Live and Learn Nov 2015 #52
That could be used in an ad. Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #54
I've already started using it. And to think it was all Hillary and supporters idea. Live and Learn Nov 2015 #55
wow that's pretty bad ibegurpard Nov 2015 #59
Hillary is more progressive than Bernie? BWahahaha! I just spit my Coke out! pinebox Nov 2015 #56
"Real progressives" don't deny education to the poor becuase a rich person might benefit, too Scootaloo Nov 2015 #57
What a silly comment. NO where in her proposal is she denying the poor an education!!! riversedge Nov 2015 #60
She's using shitty demagoguery to defend a shitty position. Scootaloo Nov 2015 #61
This must be terrible news.. Kentonio Nov 2015 #58
Not really. Scuba Nov 2015 #62
I got hit hard by reasonableness in mmonk Nov 2015 #64

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
5. It means she's smart and knows how
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 04:10 PM
Nov 2015

... expand her appeal without being divisive. I'm guessing that she may believe that labels and absolutes can be limiting and crippling, or even liabilities. (See: socialist.)

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
11. There are no silver medals in politics.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 04:59 PM
Nov 2015

She's smart. She's playing to win. Not to just "shape the discussion" and come in 2nd.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
18. If there were, she would have won it in 2008.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 06:12 PM
Nov 2015

I guess you think she wasn't "playing to win" at the time, eh?

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
37. Well, she obviously hasn't gotten
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 10:31 PM
Nov 2015

a hell of a lot smarter since the last time she lost.

You can make of that what you will.

Response to NurseJackie (Reply #48)

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
23. "without being divisive"? Surely you jest
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 07:55 PM
Nov 2015

She is one of the most polarizing figures in politics. .Her policies may be plain vanilla, but she sometimes manages to make them polarizing.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
45. You get my meaning. You are, of course, free to interpret ...
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:57 AM
Nov 2015

... or misinterpret in whatever way best suits your prejudices or motives.

(Jury Note: The word "prejudices" is used correctly and does not suggest bigotry, sexism or racism.)

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
4. Mr. Stromberg has got it all wrong about higher education proposals.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 04:07 PM
Nov 2015

"“I am not in favor of making college free for Donald Trump’s kids,” she said, after explaining that “I’m a little different from those who say free college for everybody.”

She then pitched her college afford ability proposal, which would allow students to graduate debt free but wouldn’t end tuition or work requirements. Clinton’s system would be means-tested: Those who can afford to invest in their educations would have to. Sanders’s wouldn’t be.

Sanders’s platform isn’t visionary, it’s dull........................... "

Super wealthy kids like Donald Trump's kids would likely go to private colleges. Bernie's plan has no means testing so that no lame ass loopholes are created. Simple, free public university.

dull my ass - Sanders proposal is BOLD - this guy is in the can for horseshit.

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
30. Bingo. Bernie Sanders' plan for free college would be a bold change.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 08:36 PM
Nov 2015

Hillary Clinton's plan of college-is-debt-free-if-your-parents-pay-enough is what we have already.

Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #6)

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
25. Let's get rid of Social Security and Medicare and all social safety net programs
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 07:59 PM
Nov 2015

They're all fucking pie in the sky, if you choose to look at it that way.

While we're at let's stop building highways with federal funds. I'm never going to be in Kansas and I'll be damned if I want to pay for their damn roads.

oasis

(49,389 posts)
28. Chill. You know what "pie" I'm referring to, and
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 08:05 PM
Nov 2015

it doesn't involve getting rid of social security or Medicare.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
38. No you are making a dismissive assertionm that is similar
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 10:32 PM
Nov 2015

"Free" college is not free. It would be paid for by a small tax on certain investment/financial transactions.

Perhaps you don't think that is a good idea. Fine. But it's no more "pie in the sky" than many other public services that are paid for somehow through taxes or indirect payments.

oasis

(49,389 posts)
41. Congress would have to approve that "small tax" you speak of.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 11:03 PM
Nov 2015

If it is attainable, I'm for it.

But, does Bernie figure he can sweet talk a Republican teabag congress into more spending?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
49. Will Clinton or any democratic president be able to sweet talk them into anything?
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:11 AM
Nov 2015

If your defeatist attitude is that nothing can be done because of Congress, that's a much bigger issue than Sanders.

Or if you think the GOP is gonna show Clinton any more love on any initiative she might propose, you're deluded.

oasis

(49,389 posts)
53. Hillary proposes attainable goals. The Clinton's have
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:38 AM
Nov 2015

a record of getting stuff done on a national scale.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
31. I've paid into Social Security and Medicare
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 08:50 PM
Nov 2015

It's not "pie in the sky" like Bernie wants to make college. Free college would qualify as "pie in the sky". Building highways is not pie in the sky-it's paid for with gasoline tax.

 
44. Same for Idaho.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:34 AM
Nov 2015

Fuggem. Same for Alabama and Mississippi. I'll probably never visit these two states in my lifetime.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
10. I strongly object to any plan that ties student plans to their parents in any way. For many students
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 04:36 PM
Nov 2015

that will mean they will not pursue higher education as their parents are controlling, judgmental bigots. This 'Trump's children' routine is cute, but it's cheap rhetoric that steamrolls over the reality.
Clinton has religious, straight and financial privilege just dripping off this rhetoric. Thoughtless about the least among us, always. She's just eager to jab at Bernie's plan so he jumps in and says Rev Bigot has the right to tell his gay kid where and how to study. It's not well thought out policy at all.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
13. Means testing is the establishments way of keeping people in their place and
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 05:04 PM
Nov 2015

attempting to placate them by throwing crumbs their way.

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
20. and a way to insure it will forever be unpopular. Social Security and Medicare are not means tested
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 07:35 PM
Nov 2015

and are overwhelmingly popular - attempts to abolish them or privatize them or make major cutbacks on them are almost always universally opposed by the American people. Other "help the unfortunate" programs that are means tested are always politically open to cutbacks and are in general unpopular - because people frequently have trouble imagining themselves in such unfortunate circumstances. Means tested programs insure that the very poor will be often resented by the middle class and the working poor who make just enough to put them above the limits to qualify.

Doesn't Hillary know that? Surely she must?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
14. Repairing, replacing and improving our infrastructure is getting jobs
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 05:09 PM
Nov 2015

For Americans. We need work on the infrastructure and good paying jobs, this is a win win policy.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
15. That Stromberg opinion piece is two months old.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 05:14 PM
Nov 2015

And he was proven wrong.

Trump's kids don't go to public colleges. Neither did the Clintons' daughter. Very few kids of 1 percenters go to public colleges.

But, at least at Faneuil Hall, she'll have her grasshopper weathervane - suits her.

elleng

(130,974 posts)
16. HELL YES!
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 05:26 PM
Nov 2015
 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
39. Yeah we can't offer public education can we? That would be unfair to all those poor children....
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 10:34 PM
Nov 2015

or something like that.

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
29. So if we eliminated free high school, that would be more progressive
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 08:29 PM
Nov 2015

...since Donald Trump's kids couldn't have free high school?

Should we eliminate free roads so that Donald Trump's kids have to pay tolls?

No. It's progressive to believe in The Commons, and to make the rich pay for The Commons by having a progressive tax system.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
33. Hillary's plan is dumb.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 09:07 PM
Nov 2015

It rewards mediocrity by making two years of community college free without making the first two years of a four year college free.

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
34. Ugh, is she still pushing that free college for Trump's kids BS?
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 09:16 PM
Nov 2015

I'm insulted that she thinks anyone falls for that kind of crap. I like candidates that don't treat me like I'm a complete idiot. Class warfare to get people to vote against their best interests. Fuck that.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
52. Hard to believe the "WE CAN'T" campaign has trouble attracting crowds.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:38 AM
Nov 2015

Why wouldn't everyone support that message?

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
54. That could be used in an ad.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:01 AM
Nov 2015

Last edited Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:42 AM - Edit history (1)

Can America have free public colleges? Hillary Clinton says, "No we can't."

Can America leave marijuana regulation to the states? Hillary Clinton says, "No we can't."

Can America have universal healthcare? Hillary Clinton says, "No we can't."

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
56. Hillary is more progressive than Bernie? BWahahaha! I just spit my Coke out!
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:19 AM
Nov 2015

If there ever was bullshit, an article titled "Why Hillary Clinton is more progressive than Bernie Sanders, in one sentence" is it.

Progressive, eh?

Progressives don't do this;

Fight for a NON living minimum wage
Fight for the ACA which would still leave close to 30 million uninsured
Our social security on the table
College EDU that still makes people pay.
Call the TPP the "Gold Stand" over 40 times in their own biography.
Defend sending back migrant children.
Have a hissy fit about changing names when they were SOS because of name changes of gay couples
Run racist ads at 3am against Obama.
Vote for stupid wars that were NEVER related to 9/11 because an idiot has a beef his dad couldn't finish.
Suddenly declare they were ducking sniper fire.
Voting FOR the 2001 bankruptcy bill.

On and on it goes. Sorry. It is what it is.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
61. She's using shitty demagoguery to defend a shitty position.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:22 AM
Nov 2015

"I oppose free public education because a rich person's kid might benefit too!"

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
58. This must be terrible news..
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:48 AM
Nov 2015

For all those poor billionaires who are desperate for their kids to get a free education at public college..

No sorry, I can't keep a straight face anymore.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
62. Not really.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:07 AM
Nov 2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_to_Restore_Sanity_and/or_Fear

About 215,000 people attended the rally, according to aerial photography analysis by AirPhotosLive.com for CBS News



In fact, reasonableness seems to be the big reason Bernie is drawing such huge crowds.



Source
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