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ProudToBeLiberal

(3,964 posts)
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:18 AM Dec 2015

Bernie Sanders: All the shouting in the world is not going to...keep guns out of the wrong hands

Senator Sanders, we have a gun epidemic in America. Innocent people are dying everyday to gun violence. We need to shout, yell and scream until we can get common sense gun control legislation passed in Congress.

Talking meekly and quietly will not save thousands of American lives from this horrible epidemic. For the first time since 1920, the New York Times has published a first page editorial on the gun epidemic. We must take action. We cannot let mass shootings become the normal.

Senator Sanders, we need to shout until we cannot shout no more. We need to raise our voices and demand action. Shouting is what we need and you will not silence my voice.

77 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie Sanders: All the shouting in the world is not going to...keep guns out of the wrong hands (Original Post) ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 OP
I AGREE. Shouting is what we need trueblue2007 Dec 2015 #1
Might I suggest having a look at the policy positions put forth by Sanders on the issue? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #2
i don't appreciate Senator Sander's triangulation on the issue of gun control and safety ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #5
He is pointing out that you can't simply insult people and attempt to change their minds. Maedhros Dec 2015 #8
That's not a tiangulation, it's a plain fact Scootaloo Dec 2015 #13
This is not triangulation. TM99 Dec 2015 #66
Until you understand that shouting "blood on our hands" aikoaiko Dec 2015 #69
That's the what, 3rd op today about guns? beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #12
They'll take every serious issue, mass killings, racism, etc... and exploit it for political points. cui bono Dec 2015 #28
Of course they do, it's so transparent. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #30
There should be a daily poll in the Bernie group about which meme will be the meme o' the day. cui bono Dec 2015 #35
True, true. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #40
I gotta tell you, after the fourth and the fifth recycled memes ESKD Dec 2015 #75
It's OK for Bernie to shout about income inequality... Cali_Democrat Dec 2015 #3
OMG... where did he say that? Direct quote please. cui bono Dec 2015 #25
Are you serious Politicalboi Dec 2015 #4
Hillary Clinton on Gun Control maybe this will refresh you memory... Historic NY Dec 2015 #10
The woman Obama called Annie Oakley in 2008? beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #11
Excellent rebuttal. tecelote Dec 2015 #14
If she gets the nomination she'll swing back to the right. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #16
Absolutely. tecelote Dec 2015 #18
Is this the first time mass murder was used to boost a political campaign? CoffeeCat Dec 2015 #19
I don't want your thoughts and prayers ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #20
Pffft. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #21
Grab some wood... CoffeeCat Dec 2015 #22
Why do you not want people to think and pray? cui bono Dec 2015 #26
p.s. YOU SHOULD POST LIKE THIS IS IF YOU WANT TO SHOUT. cui bono Dec 2015 #41
No, sadly it isn't. cui bono Dec 2015 #38
It's very sad... CoffeeCat Dec 2015 #71
So what your actually saying is Bernie Sanders is weak on gun control... Historic NY Dec 2015 #54
No, I'm saying Camp Weathervane is twisting in the wind again. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #56
Thank you for that! Cha Dec 2015 #37
Guns are not the problem zalinda Dec 2015 #6
Guns are a symptom of the problem. Maedhros Dec 2015 #9
Australia did it after a massacre of 35 people in 1996. tecelote Dec 2015 #15
US murder rates with guns also dropped in the same time period. aikoaiko Dec 2015 #70
Yes, guns are the problem. shenmue Dec 2015 #17
Well said, spot on. Nt. Juicy_Bellows Dec 2015 #46
Yes, guns are the problem! leftofcool Dec 2015 #65
He's part of the problem MaggieD Dec 2015 #7
"you will not silence my voice" Oh please. No one is trying to "silence" you. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #23
lmao!!! Do you know who Bernie Sanders is? cui bono Dec 2015 #24
I won't be silenced by your intimidation tactics. ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #27
Hahahahahahaha.......... cui bono Dec 2015 #29
Thank you for your compliment nt ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #31
You forgot to quote me saying you should be silent. Couldn't find that part? cui bono Dec 2015 #33
I will not fall into your trap. You just want me to say something particular, so you can alert me. ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #36
Good call. I know exactly what you're talking about. Cha Dec 2015 #39
zidzi!!! Hi! Thankfully you understand, can you please explain it to me? cui bono Dec 2015 #44
Asking you to back up your claim is a trap? No, not at all. cui bono Dec 2015 #43
LOL Smart guy! Cha Dec 2015 #49
LMAO! Now another poster is trying to silence you? beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #34
Still trying to get this lie to stick huh? Fearless Dec 2015 #32
Yeah, BS can shout all the ******* he wants but don't let the Sensible Gun Law Activists "Shout". Cha Dec 2015 #42
Where is the quote where he says people should not shout and where he is trying to silence them? cui bono Dec 2015 #45
Wow, you can't be more obvious. Stop trying to get our post alerted upon. ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #52
What are you talking about? I'm simply asking you to back up your accusation. You can't do it. cui bono Dec 2015 #53
If you want to win the argument so badly, I will concede defeat and let you win. ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #55
What a strange response. You need not "give" me anything. I'm not trying to win. cui bono Dec 2015 #57
I said you won. How come you are trying to kick me when I am down? ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #58
Stop what? Why are you telling other posters what to do? beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #62
That's your game, and you can knock it off now. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #59
Can you stop trying to silence me? ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #60
LOL! Stop playing the victim, responding to you is not "trying to silence" you. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #61
Beam me up scottie nt ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #63
Now you're getting the hang of it! beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #64
Np, we can't let Bernie Sanders and his supporters silence us. Nt ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #47
NO we can't.. I don't respond or engage to their nonsense. Cha Dec 2015 #51
Do not let Bernie backers silence your voice workinclasszero Dec 2015 #67
I never knew we were so big and bad Armstead Dec 2015 #73
You can't pass tap water off as Sriracha. Juicy_Bellows Dec 2015 #48
Noone will silence you quakerboy Dec 2015 #50
How's that working for you? aikoaiko Dec 2015 #68
I wish you felt that way about other issues. Armstead Dec 2015 #72
Grandstanding has yet to do a fucking thing about gun culture. 99Forever Dec 2015 #74
unregulated corrupt capitalism kills more people annually than guns zazen Dec 2015 #76
EXACTLY ! TIME TO PANIC Dec 2015 #77
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
2. Might I suggest having a look at the policy positions put forth by Sanders on the issue?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:28 AM
Dec 2015

'Cause.. .that was kinda his whole damn point. Positions, legislation, action are going to be the best way to deal with the problem.Not yelling on the internet. congratulations, you've convinced all the other people on DU that you're very pious on this issue, your version of "thoughts and prayers." Now what?

Support Sanders' gun plan. or support Clinton's. Support O'Malley's, all three are good. 'Cause these are hte methods by which change is achieved.

ProudToBeLiberal

(3,964 posts)
5. i don't appreciate Senator Sander's triangulation on the issue of gun control and safety
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:42 AM
Dec 2015

He also said, "we can raise our voices, but I come from a rural state, and the views on gun control in rural states are different than in urban states, whether we like it or not."

We have a gun epidemic. Senator Sanders needs to stop triangulating on the issue. He is telling us to stop shouuting because this is supposedly a losing issue in rural areas. Thousands of people die from guns each year. We have blood on our hands. We need to shout. We need to pass legislation to stop the gun epidemic. We need to raise our voices. Senator Sander needs to stop trying to silence my voice.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
8. He is pointing out that you can't simply insult people and attempt to change their minds.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:50 AM
Dec 2015

I agree with Bernie. I also have no confidence that your argument is being presented in good faith.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
13. That's not a tiangulation, it's a plain fact
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 03:21 AM
Dec 2015

North Dakota and Alaska have a very different outlook on guns than New Jersey or California. That's just an undeniable reality. You also leave out what he said next:

"Our job is to bring people together around strong, common-sense gun legislation."

Let's compare to clinton on the same issue:

"I favor what we have in New York. We have a set of rules in New York city, and we have a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in New York City is certainly not going to work in Montana. So for the federal government to be having any kind of, you know, blanket rules that they're going to try to impose, I think doesn't make sense."

Sanders is saying that shouting at each other isn't productive. That's why he's proposing policy instead of you know... shouting. But you keep screaming. See if your voice gives out before you get results. I'll wait.

Or you could sign on and promote some candidate's gun plans. I don't fucking care whose you go for, just go out and do it.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
66. This is not triangulation.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 07:12 AM
Dec 2015

Really y'all need to look up the definition of this term. It has a real meaning beyond what people so desperately want to attribute to it.

Sanders views on gun control are the same as Obama's and the Democratic Party platform.

The official position is as follows --

We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans' Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but we know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together to enact and enforce commonsense laws and improvements - like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background check system, and reinstating the assault weapons ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals. Acting responsibly and with respect for differing views on this issue, we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.


The Democratic Party platform 2010

Sure, get emotional, express the hurt and rage via shouting. But he and others are right. All the shouting in the world will get us no where. We must deal with the realities at hand and come up with legislative solutions that will pass in both rural AND urban environments.

No one is silencing you.

aikoaiko

(34,170 posts)
69. Until you understand that shouting "blood on our hands"
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 11:14 AM
Dec 2015


Is not a winning strategy you will continue to be ineffective.

Please continue

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
12. That's the what, 3rd op today about guns?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 03:12 AM
Dec 2015

Looks like the memo went out, time to recycle the "gun nut" meme again.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
28. They'll take every serious issue, mass killings, racism, etc... and exploit it for political points.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:48 AM
Dec 2015

No shame. Just full fledged opportunists. Makes it clear how they can support someone like Hillary though, doesn't it?

.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
30. Of course they do, it's so transparent.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:52 AM
Dec 2015

Whenever they don't want to discuss the real differences between the candidates (every day) they recycle an old meme.

Today it's gunz!

Yesterday it was Bernie is a pro gunner that thinks women enjoy being raped.

Tomorrow - who knows?

Maybe they'll go after him over Israel again.


cui bono

(19,926 posts)
35. There should be a daily poll in the Bernie group about which meme will be the meme o' the day.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:58 AM
Dec 2015

But there's probably too many choices to be able to list them all.

.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
40. True, true.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:01 AM
Dec 2015

Maybe we can intercept the memo before they get it.

That way we could pre-empt the daily meme dump.

 

ESKD

(57 posts)
75. I gotta tell you, after the fourth and the fifth recycled memes
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 01:32 PM
Dec 2015

it's going to get stale very fast, and Clinton and the Republicans will need to dig for fresh materials.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
3. It's OK for Bernie to shout about income inequality...
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:30 AM
Dec 2015

but apparently he thinks we shouldn't shout about guns.

Bernie's shouting talking point is perhaps the dumbest talking point of the primaries.

He looks so foolish when he says it.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
4. Are you serious
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:31 AM
Dec 2015


When Bernie said that about a month ago, Hillary's people thought it was an insult because he used her name which you left out. I don't recall Hillary saying too much from 1993-2001 about gun control. Good try though.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
10. Hillary Clinton on Gun Control maybe this will refresh you memory...
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:53 AM
Dec 2015

Here try this since she wasn't elected official until 2001...and there is much more.

Get weapons off the streets; zero tolerance for weapons
The first step is to take weapons off the streets and to put more police on them. The Brady Bill, which my husband signed into law in 1995, imposes a 5-day waiting period for gun purchases, time enough for authorities to check out a buyer’s record and for the buyer to cool down about any conflict he might have intended the gun to resolve. Since it was enacted, more than 40,000 people with criminal records have been prevented from buying guns. The 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act banned 19 types of military-style assault weapons whose only purpose is to kill people.

As part of a “zero tolerance” policy for weapons, drugs, and other threats to the safety of teachers and students, the President signed an executive order decreeing that any student who comes to school with a gun will be expelled and punished as a condition of federal aid.

http://www.issues2000.org/Takes_A_Village.htm Sep 25, 1996

Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation
We have to do everything possible to keep guns out of the hands of children, and we need to stand firm on behalf of the sensible gun control legislation that passed the Senate and then was watered down in the House. It does not make sense for us at this point in our history to turn our backs on the reality that there are too many guns and too many children have access to those guns-and we have to act to prevent that.
Source: Remarks to NEA in Orlando, Florida Jul 5, 1999

Tough gun control keeps guns out of wrong hands
I think it does once again urge us to think hard about what we can do to make sure that we keep guns out of the hands of children and criminals and mentally unbalanced people. I hope we will come together as a nation and do whatever it takes to keep guns away from people who have no business with them.
Source: Press Release Jul 31, 1999

License and register all handgun sales
Hillary Rodham Clinton offered her support for a legislative proposal to license hand guns. The legislation, sponsored by Sen. Charles Schumer, would require anyone who wants to purchase a gun to obtain a state-issued photo gun license. “I stand in support of this common sense legislation to license everyone who wishes to purchase a gun,” Clinton said. “I also believe that every new handgun sale or transfer should be registered in a national registry, such as Chuck is proposing.”
Source: CNN.com Jun 2, 2000

Keep guns away from people who shouldn’t have them
We need to stand firm on behalf of sensible gun control legislation. We have to enact laws that will keep guns out of the hand of children and criminals and mentally unbalanced persons. Congress should have acted before our children started going back to school. I realize the NRA is a formidable political group; but I believe the American people are ready to come together as a nation and do whatever it takes to keep guns away from people who shouldn’t have them.
Source: www.hillary2000.org, “Gun Safety” Sep 9, 2000



http://www.issues2000.org/Domestic/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
11. The woman Obama called Annie Oakley in 2008?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 03:10 AM
Dec 2015

Who sent these mailers out about Obama?:



Hillary hits Obama on faith, guns

Yesterday, Clinton hit Obama for calling Pennsylvanians "bitter," ground on which he fairly ably engaged.
Today, she's onto the other half of his San Francisco remarks, in which he linked economic frustration to clinging to religion and guns (the part he sought to walk back this morning in Muncie, Ind.).

"Sen. Obama's remarks are elitist, and they are out of touch," Clinton said. "The people of faith I know don't 'cling to' religion because they're bitter. ... I also disagree with Sen. Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration. People of all walks of life hunt — and they enjoy doing so because it's an important part of their life, not because they are bitter."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/hillary-hits-obama-on-faith-guns-007747


Hillary Clinton goes bold on gun safety — but she sounded a different note in 2008


But Clinton hasn’t always been so forceful in her fight for gun control. As the Post highlights, Clinton has dramatically shifted her tone on gun control since the 2008 campaign. While Clinton touted her husband’s record record on gun control (former President Bill Clinton signed into the law an assault weapons ban that has since lapsed) she also heralded personal memories of learning to shoot with her father and defend gun ownership, saying, “there is not a contradiction between protecting Second Amendment rights” and the effort to reduce crime.

You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl,” Clinton said while campaigning ahead of the Indiana primary, where white working class Democrats propelled her to a narrow victory over then-Sen. Barack Obama. “You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. It’s part of culture. It’s part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because it’s an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter,” she continued, in a dig at Obama’s remark at a fundraiser that disenfranchised Americans often “cling” to cultural symbols like guns and religion.

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/10/hillary_clinton_goes_bold_on_gun_safety_but_she_sounded_a_different_note_in_2008/


CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
19. Is this the first time mass murder was used to boost a political campaign?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:02 AM
Dec 2015

Instead of trying to bring people together--Hillary's minions decide to parlay a national tragedy into political gold.

What a sick attempt to capitalize on the hurt and outrage that America is feeling because of the San Bernardino attacks. It's also a tacky attempt--cherry picking one sentence that Bernie said and building up a straw man argument with it.

How shameful and sick.

When a political candidate, or supporters of that candidate, use fourteen dead people to bolster a political message and to position your opponent in a negative light--you've pretty much lost your soul.

ProudToBeLiberal

(3,964 posts)
20. I don't want your thoughts and prayers
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:13 AM
Dec 2015

Thoughts and prayers isn't going to fix the gun epidemic in America. We need real solutions. We need to take action. We need to shout and demand that Congress pass common sense gun control legislation. Senator Sanders isn't going to silence me. I am going to shout until I cannot shout no more.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
21. Pffft.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:21 AM
Dec 2015
Senator Sanders isn't going to silence me


Oh the drama.

Bernie is pro-gun control and has been for decades.

Maybe you should shout at the pro-NRA Republicans instead of pro-gun control Democrats.


CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
22. Grab some wood...
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:28 AM
Dec 2015

...it appears that you've got the vapors.

You might want to steady yourself next to something heavy.

The faux outrage about Bernie attempting to silence you is a nice touch.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
26. Why do you not want people to think and pray?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:45 AM
Dec 2015

Why are you trying to silence my mind?????

OMG.... you're trying to silence my thoughts!!! The horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See how stupid that is?

.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
38. No, sadly it isn't.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:00 AM
Dec 2015

Hillary supporters exploited that church shooting when it happened by trying to paint Bernie as a gun nut then as well.

It's really sad what a pathetic joke DU has become. I really don't know why I still come here. It's a bad habit at this point.

.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
71. It's very sad...
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:07 PM
Dec 2015

...but they are a vocal minority. Look at DU. Pro-Hillary posts are rarely, if ever, on the Greatest page. DU is 90 percent in the tank for Bernie.

Please remember that some of her support most likely isn't real. Hillary purchased Twitter followers, and a paid operative has come forward to reveal that he was employed by the Hillary campaign to troll Internet sites for Hillary.

http://reverbpress.com/politics/battlegrounds/confessions-hillary-shill-people-getting-paid-bash-bernie-sanders/

I'm not calling out any individual person. Some of the Hillary supporter are wonderful. However, I worked in PR for many years and it's entirely possible that some of her support is not authentic--throughout the Internet. Many companies hire people to post on their behalf. BP did this after the Gulf War disaster. Their FB page was a disgrace and you could watch as these paid operatives attempted to overpower and drive out anyone who dared to criticize BP after the spill.

One of their tactics is to mock and laugh at posters who speak truth. BP's page had a cadre of posters who did this.

They worked as a team to attack anyone who dared to suggest that BP was at fault. If someone posted about the wildlife being covered in oil and how sad it was, within seconds (they're fast!) one would post about BP's new wildlife protection fund. Another would chime in and attack the poster for criticizing the Gulf, insisting that that the poster was damaging Gulf tourism as BP worked hard to clean up the Gulf. Then the "sorority girls" would show up. They'd post lots of LOLs and they'd mock and make people feel outnumbered and intimidated. It was very well orchestrated. It was obvious kabuki theater. Who actually liked BP a month after the oil spill?

So...this kind of nonsense does happen and apparently there are unethical PR people who consider this a fantastic way to spend their time. It's actually a form of lying. The Public Relations Society of America considers this highly unethical behavior and other companies have been called out for this practice. I guess there's a dark side to every profession.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
56. No, I'm saying Camp Weathervane is twisting in the wind again.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:31 AM
Dec 2015

Bernie's pro-gun control positions are just fine.

zalinda

(5,621 posts)
6. Guns are not the problem
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:45 AM
Dec 2015

The real problem is much, much more complicated. For how many guns that are out there, we should be drowning in gun violence, but that is not the case. Just like Prohibition did not stop drinking, taking away the guns will not stop the killing.

First, we have to recognize that 60% of the gun deaths are suicide. Does police shooting also get added into this 33,000 number? I don't know. This is what I do know. People who kill are unbalanced. Whatever their reason is to take out a gun and kill, is not normal. There is not adequate health care, whether mental or physical. Physical pain can take as much a toll on people's lives as mental pain. When people have had enough pain in their lives, they fight back, they could hurt themselves or others.

People have been treated cruelly by corporations, lives ruined, houses taken away, job taken away, children taken away, spouse leaving or a huge combination of all of it. The anger is there. Why do you think that Trump and even Bernie is doing well. It's because the people are suffering, and they know that the establishment politicians are not listening to them, or are in fact even aware of them. The politicians only think about their friends and making money. They do not care about the people they are sending into war, or taking away their pension or taking away their house or just making it difficult to live.

What I have seen in the last 50 years is astounding. It used to be that employees were valued. That you local bank knew you and actually wanted your business. That children could play outside safely. You only needed one paycheck in the family to live a descent life. You could trust your local news show and news paper. Now people have been reduced to no more than a number on a chart.

We have had a number of revolutions in this world when the elites would shout "let them eat cake". We are seeing the signs of that revolution coming again. Guns are not the problem, the inequality is the problem. Put enough stress on people, they will break and we are seeing the cracks opening up. Getting rid of guns is a feel good band-aid, but it doesn't solve the problem.

Z




















 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
9. Guns are a symptom of the problem.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:51 AM
Dec 2015

The problem is a culture of fear, violence and exploitation.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
15. Australia did it after a massacre of 35 people in 1996.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 03:23 AM
Dec 2015

"There are many American traits which we Australians could well emulate to our great benefit," he concluded. "But when it comes to guns, we have been right to take a radically different path." - John Howard

"...the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the law's effectiveness."

That 59% decrease in the US would have saved about 160,000 lives in one decade.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
23. "you will not silence my voice" Oh please. No one is trying to "silence" you.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:31 AM
Dec 2015

Enough with the drama, no one here is going to be swayed by recycled memes.

Bernie has always been pro-gun control and has already explained his vote against the Brady Bill:

Sanders voted against the pro-gun-control Brady Bill, writing that he believes states, not the federal government, can handle waiting periods for handguns. In 1994, he voted yes on an assault weapons ban. He has voted to ban some lawsuits against gun manufacturers and for the Manchin-Toomey legislation expanding federal background checks.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm



Bernie Sanders’ critics misfire: The Vermont senator’s gun record is better than it looks

....However, the Nation and the other reports like it don’t shed real light on where Sanders is coming from. They don’t explain why he supports some gun controls but not others. Nor do they ask if there’s a consistency to Sanders’ positions and votes over the years? They simply suggest that Bernie’s position is muddled and makes a good target for Hillary.

Yet there is an explanation. It’s consistent and simpler than many pundits think. And it’s in Bernie’s own words dating back to the campaign where he was first elected to the U.S. House—in 1990—where he was endorsed by the NRA, even after Sanders told them that he would ban assault rifles. That year, Bernie faced Republican incumbent Peter Smith, who beat him by less than 4 percentage points in a three-way race two years before.

In that 1988 race, Bernie told Vermont sportsmen that he backed an assault weapons ban. Smith told the same sportsmen’s groups that he opposed it, but midway through his first term he changed his mind and co-sponsored an assault rifle ban—even bringing an AK-47 to his press conference. That about-face was seen as a betrayal and is the background to a June 1990 debate sponsored by the Vermont Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs.

I was at that debate with Smith and three other candidates—as the Sanders’ campaign press secretary—and recorded it. Bernie spoke at length three times and much of what he said is relevant today, and anticipates his congressional record on gun control ever since. Look at how Bernie describes what being a sportsperson is in a rural state, where he is quick to draw the line with weapons that threaten police and have no legitimate use in hunting—he previously was mayor of Vermont’s biggest city, and his record of being very clear with the gun lobby and rural people about where he stands. His approach, despite the Nation’s characterization, isn’t “open-minded.”

As you can see, Bernie—who moved to rural northeastern Vermont in the late 1960s—has an appreciation and feeling for where hunting and fishing fit into the lives of lower income rural people. He’s not a hunter or a fisherman. When he grew up in Brooklyn, he was a nerdy jock—being captivated by ideas and a high school miler who hoped for a track scholarship for college. But like many people who settled in Vermont for generations, he was drawn to its freer and greener pastures and respected its local culture.

“I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.”

That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. It’s also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980s—before he was in Congress—which he reiterated to the moderator.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/10/what_bernies_gun_control_critics_get_wrong_partner/


Alternet: Bernie's Gun Control Critics Are Wrong—His Stance Has Been Consistent for Decades

Next, the 1990 debate turned to gun control. The moderator, who clearly was a Second Amendment absolutist, went after Bernie—to test his mettle after Smith’s about-face.

“Do you support additional restrictions on firearms? Do you support additional restrictive firearms legislation?” he asked. “Bernie Sanders, explain yourself, yes or no?”

“Yes,” he replied. “Two years ago, I went before the Vermont Sportsman’s Federation and was asked exactly the same question. It was a controversial question. I know how they felt on the issue. And that was before the DiConcini Bill. That was before a lot of discussion about the Brady Bill. That was before New Jersey and California passed bills limiting assault weapons.

“I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.”

That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. It’s also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980s—before he was in Congress—which he reiterated to the moderator.

“I said that before the election,” he continued. “The Vermont sportspeople, as is their right, made their endorsement. The endorsed Peter Smith. They endorsed Paul Poirier. I lost that election by about three-and-one-half percentage points, a very close election. Was my failure to get that endorsement pivotal? It might have been. We don’t know. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. All I can say is I told the sportspeople of Vermont what I believe before the election and I am going to say it again.

“I do believe we need to ban certain types of assault weapons. I have taked to police chiefs. I have talked to the police officers out on the street. I have read some of the literature all over this country. Police chiefs, police officers are concerned about the types of weapons which are ending up in the hands of drug dealers and other criminals and our police oficers are getting outgunned.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernies-gun-control-critics-are-wrong-his-stance-has-been-consistent-decades


Sanders Votes for Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban

WASHINGTON, April 17 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.

“Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities,” Sanders said. “There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others,” Sanders added.

The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. “To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories,” Sanders said.

Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales – up to 40 percent of all gun transfers – at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between “family, friends, and neighbors.”

In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban


He even voted for the 1994 crime bill because it included the Violence against Women Act and assault weapons ban:

In 1994, however, Sanders voted in favor of the final version of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, a bill that expanded the federal death penalty. Sanders had voted for an amendment to the bill that would have replaced all federal death sentences with life in prison. Even though the amendment failed, Sanders still voted for the larger crime bill.

A spokesman for Sanders said he voted for the bill "because it included the Violence Against Women Act and the ban on certain assault weapons."

Sanders reiterated his opposition to capital punishment in 2015. "I just don’t think the state itself, whether it’s the state government or federal government, should be in the business of killing people," he said on a radio show.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/02/viral-image/where-do-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-stand-/


cui bono

(19,926 posts)
24. lmao!!! Do you know who Bernie Sanders is?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:41 AM
Dec 2015

omg.... the desperation in these attempts to twist Bernie's words into something he never said is astounding!

You think Bernie's is "talking meekly"?. You've clearly never heard him speak then. Fail.

You think Bernie is trying to silence you? You clearly do not know of his appeals to bring the people into a movement. Fail.

I would explain to you that he meant that only shouting doesn't do anything, but you knew that, you can't be that stupid to think he doesn't want anyone to say anything and doesn't want any action taken. You should be embarrassed to have written this disingenuous, transparent and slanderous OP.

.

ProudToBeLiberal

(3,964 posts)
27. I won't be silenced by your intimidation tactics.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:46 AM
Dec 2015

Your aggressive and in your face attitude will not stop me from shouting. I will raise my voice until I cannot shout no more. You won't scare me into silence.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
29. Hahahahahahaha..........
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:50 AM
Dec 2015

omg you're killing me!!!

That post deserves the trademarked

Such drama! Did you study theater or does it come naturally?

Oh, so where did I say you should be silent? Exact quote please. Thanks!

.

ProudToBeLiberal

(3,964 posts)
36. I will not fall into your trap. You just want me to say something particular, so you can alert me.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:58 AM
Dec 2015

A lot of Hillary Clinton supporters like Maggie are aggressively being followed and alerted upon. I will not fall for your trap. Nice try.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
43. Asking you to back up your claim is a trap? No, not at all.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:04 AM
Dec 2015

You claimed I said something so back it up. Of course I never did what you accused me of, so now you deflect and make a different false accusation.

So explain that one then. I mean really, if you are going to make claims you are supposed to be able to back them up. Never mind that you can't even back up your OP.

What a joke.

.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
34. LMAO! Now another poster is trying to silence you?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:56 AM
Dec 2015

Oh my god, you are hilarious.

MAYBE YOU SHOULD TYPE IN ALL CAPS, THAT WAY PEOPLE KNOW YOU'RE SHOUTING.

Everyone gets a voice here, trying to get cui bono's post hidden isn't going to work.

If you feel intimidated by that post then this forum probably isn't for you.

Go shout somewhere else if you don't want to be challenged.

Maybe an echo chamber, that way you can enjoy the sound of your own voice more than once.

Cha

(297,275 posts)
42. Yeah, BS can shout all the ******* he wants but don't let the Sensible Gun Law Activists "Shout".
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:02 AM
Dec 2015

Thank you, PTBL!

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
45. Where is the quote where he says people should not shout and where he is trying to silence them?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:07 AM
Dec 2015

Thanks!

.

ProudToBeLiberal

(3,964 posts)
52. Wow, you can't be more obvious. Stop trying to get our post alerted upon.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:13 AM
Dec 2015

You are doing your candidate a disservice. Getting our post deleted is a cheap way to silence us. Can you at least try to be more reasonable?

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
53. What are you talking about? I'm simply asking you to back up your accusation. You can't do it.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:24 AM
Dec 2015

So stop trying to deflect by making yet another false accusation.

I'm not trying to silence you, I'm trying to get you to explain something that I'm too thick to get. So, where did I say that you should be silent? Is that what the accusation was? We've gone back and forth a few times now, it's hard to remember. If you don't mind, could you trouble yourself to read upthread and see what it was you said I said and then quote me saying it?

Thanks!

.

ProudToBeLiberal

(3,964 posts)
55. If you want to win the argument so badly, I will concede defeat and let you win.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:30 AM
Dec 2015

Are you happy now? Like I said, I won't fall for your trap. I refuse to be silenced whether it's through intimidation or having my posts deleted.

You can visit the Hillary group and see many stories of Hillary Clinton's supporters having their post maliciously alerted upon.

I know what you are trying to do. I would rather lose the argument than have my post be silenced through deletion. So you win the argument. Congratulations.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
57. What a strange response. You need not "give" me anything. I'm not trying to win.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:36 AM
Dec 2015

I am merely standing up for my words and not allowing you to make a false accusation towards me without backing it up.

You've shown you can't back it up, even if you tried to do it in a way that you think allows you to save face. That's fine. We all see that you couldn't provide the quote.

As to visiting the Hillary group, no thanks!

And no, you don't know what I'm trying to do. That's just another false accusation. Care to show proof of it? Oh, never mind, you can't because it never happened.

.

ProudToBeLiberal

(3,964 posts)
58. I said you won. How come you are trying to kick me when I am down?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:44 AM
Dec 2015

Please stop bragging about your victory. It's unbecoming and unseemly. Be humble in victory be gracious in defeat. Like I said, congratulations. Enjoy your victory.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
59. That's your game, and you can knock it off now.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:55 AM
Dec 2015

If you don't want people to respond to you don't post in an open forum.

If you don't want to read someone's posts, put them on ignore.

But quit playing the victim because people are challenging you.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
61. LOL! Stop playing the victim, responding to you is not "trying to silence" you.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 06:02 AM
Dec 2015

Your manipulation won't work.

Try another tactic.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
67. Do not let Bernie backers silence your voice
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 10:37 AM
Dec 2015

Americans are being slaughtered by unrestricted deadly weapons and Bernie Sanders is a part of this horrible problem.

He is defiant in the face of these terrible events and still stands in front of the big gun lobby to protect them.

Has Bernie admitted his terrible lack of judgment in voting against the Brady Bill yet? Of course not!

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
50. Noone will silence you
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:12 AM
Dec 2015

at least, not technically. The media will ignore you, though. And all your shouting will be completely ineffective.

When it comes to shouting or action.. I will take action any day. When it comes to hashtags vs action.. again action. When it comes to bluster VS action.. again I chose action.

But Im not the boss of you, so you are free to keep on ineffectively shouting your self in the foot as long as you like, and the country will continue to suffer for it, with shooting after shooting and no hope or change.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
74. Grandstanding has yet to do a fucking thing about gun culture.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:31 PM
Dec 2015

Sorry that inconvenient little fact slipped right by you pal.

So scream away, for all of the fucking good it does.

zazen

(2,978 posts)
76. unregulated corrupt capitalism kills more people annually than guns
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 01:54 PM
Dec 2015

While I want all sorts of serious gun regulation too, the reality is that

1) lack of access to decent, affordable (free) health care (physical and mental)
2) lack of decent, guaranteed paying jobs, including ones that allow parents to spend more time with their kids
3) a for-profit criminal justice system that preys on minority communities
4) grossly unaffordable higher education that disproportionate and further excludes minorities from decent paying jobs
5) lack of affordable child care and paid parental leave
6) little to no safety net for older and partially disabled persons who aren't on Medicare and SS but don't qualify for benefits

lead to many more deaths per year. Sanders is the only politician who is addressing these issues at the root--not putting a bandaid on them.

Would Bernie's policies if enacted stop serial killers, politically motivated fundamentalist extremist killers, and half of the domestic gun-related violence? No. But it'd remove a lot of the deeper motivations/exigencies that lead to the rest of the gun violence.

We need movements on both fronts.

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