2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat polls tell about the progress of the Sanders campaign and the current state of the primary race
Last edited Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:42 PM - Edit history (1)
This forum is chockablock with discussions of polls (mostly from Clinton supporters saying "the primary is over" and Sanders supporters saying "it's not over and polling shows Clinton is vulnerable int he general election" , but much of the discussion misses the point.
Nate Silver knows as much about polling as anyone, and this past week, his 538 blog had lots of excellent discussion of how to read and use polls, and here are some take away points:
* there is a wide and consistent divergence from the live phone-based polling to the automated-phone- and internet-based polling (Trump's polling best illustrates this phenomenon but it is true for Clinton, too);
* this wide divergence in the two schools of polling has not been fully explained yet, but pollsters with the most accurate records think the live phone-based polling is the more-likely-accurate model;
* in addition to focusing on the polls that use traditional sampling methods, the polls which focus on likely voters are probably the more reliable indiactors;
* the election process is fascinating to a self-selected group of people who choose to discuss the election on an internet website (i.e., you), but most voters in Iowa and New Hampshire and elsewhere are only starting to pay attention;
* the overwhelming majority of voters are still undecided (even in Iowa where 65% of the voters decide in the last month before the caucus and New Hampshire where 71% of voters decide in the last month before the primary and especially in the 48 other states where the voters decide even later than in Iowa or New Hampshire) so you should read polls with the understanding that "undecided" is currently the prohibitive and overwhelming leader in all of these polls;
* polling is an important tool for campaigns but even in Iowa and New Hampshire (and even more so for national polling), predicting results based only on polling (especially early polling) is not very accurate.
With all of that said, the polling trends for Sanders look good.
In New Hampshire (where the primary is still more than two months away), the live polls of likely voters are very good for Sanders:
If you increase the smooting (i.e., you draw the graph line so it captures the overall trend line more than the rises and falls based on each individual poll result), the trend is even more encouraging for Sanders:
In Iowa (where the caucus is still more than 8 weeks away), the live phone polls of likely voters are very close and a graph of the trend lines presents more encouraging news for Sanders:
If you decrease the smoothing (to focus on the rise and fall of individual poll results rather than the overall trend lines), the graph shows an extremely tight race:
While the national polls are useless as a prognostication tool, they do provide useful data about whether the candidate's message is getting across and whether the national trend is moving in the right direction. The national live polling of likely voters confirms that Sanders is getting his message across and the campaign is heading in the right direction:
Neither side should make more of this polling than it is, but for those of us supporting Sanders, this is nice confirmation that the campaign is on the right track and progressing as we would hope.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Hillary gained back most of what she lost over the summer, thanks in part to Sanders taking her off the hook on the emails, and also gained from Biden's declaration.
On her side, she has the DNC, the Clinton machine, msm, big donors, etc., none of which can be discounted.
The work of those who support Sanders and/or O'Malley is clear and is cut out for us. Do not give up and do not become complacent.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)He is close to retirement age and he is loving Bernie. He caught part of an interview or a speech on TV and he said he is the most honest politician he has ever seen. I am shocked still in shock. I was so shocked I quit making my dinner for a good 15 minutes to talk to him about it.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)most of the wingnuts but I think Sanders gets a good share of those who are sick of establishment politics-as-usual candidates.
merrily
(45,251 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)talking about votes in the first two battleground states. I'm sure Clinton's polling advantage in states where Sanders hasn't campaigned yet is important for your mental well being, but it is not really relevant to the discussion we're having.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)election.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)zalinda
(5,621 posts)If it hadn't been for her husband, she wouldn't be known. Bill has been front and center for almost all of her political life. If it wasn't for the fact that she was First Lady, she wouldn't even be considered to be President. She has walked into every political position on the coattails of some one else. FWI, Moynihan set her up in New York to be Senator and Obama gave her the Secretary of State job.
If she didn't have the name recognition or the backing of the Democratic Party machine, she'd be left in the dust.
Z
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)I am certainly not gonna waste time on a conversation.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)she has people for that and unpaid interns as well.
Z
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)Yes, it really is all about the coattails with her.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)as shown by your hugely flawed interpretation, posted in your Iowa averages thread last week.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251848660
Frankly, you don't understand polling or trend analysis.
Sid
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)was simply a discussion of the fact that poll a Clinton supporter was touting was actually a pretty good poll for Sanders.
I have run several local and regional Democratic campaigns and I have worked a Democratic New Hampshire primary so, while it is possible I am misinterpreting the data, I think it is more likely that you might be mistaken. In either case, you are not obliged to read my polling analysis if it does not fit well with your view of the race.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I think that's germane in threads where you interpret current polling.
Sid
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Old habits die hard, eh?
Sid
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)You seem to be arguing against something with nothing.