2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary's presidentialness
Hillary comes out ahead again and again in the answer to "who among the Democratic candidates is the most presidential?" Where does this perception among the voters come from? It is from Hillary's bearing and language. She stands, speaks and moves in the manner of persons whose confident presence is based on power derived from wealth. Much of the public sees this power as a qualification to rule because in today's social, economic and political reality it is money that decides who is in charge. The more money you have of your own or your sponsors provide the more qualified you have become to be chosen as a CEO or a president. The moneyed class, by giving Hillary hundreds of thousands of dollars to make single speeches, have integrated Hillary into their class, and she in turn thinks, speaks and acts in the manner of the comfortably wealthy.
Is this okay? Yes, if you are for the status quo where the one percent are becoming more and more powerful in deciding what is in their personal interest. No, if you believe the country will be better off if the middle and working class get back the money that has been taken in myriads of ways from making higher education no longer affordable to making it nearly impossible to raise a family on a modest income. That is why a candidate like Hillary whose first sympathies lie with her wealthy peers is the wrong candidate: Bernie is simply the best!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Bernie is himself, not bought by anyone but us, his donors.
Feel the Bern!
Persondem
(1,936 posts)Or is that "corporate, 1% money" ok when it goes to your guy?
Or are Bernie's convictions kinda squishy?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Was she trying to buy Bernie?????
Let's get all the big money out of politics.
Bernie is the only one who will do that.
Hillary would not be able to run a campaign without all that backing from the 1%.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Probably not. Here's what would probably happen: Bernie spooks the markets, causing another financial collapse, leading to further stagnation and layoffs, then spends the remainder of his term pointing fingers and getting nothing done, which in turn bleeds more middle class jobs and wealth, in particular communities of color will get the worst end of it.
It's fun to rail against all the "evil" people but nobody wins with a failed economy.
Of course this is all just my opinion, just like yours was.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)in 2016.
Hillary supporters should watch what is going on in the financial sector before posting about it.
riversedge
(70,311 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Hillary: You can count on me Robert. After all, you're the godfather of the neocon, warmongering movement and I'm happy that you were one of my closest advisors when I was Secretary of State.
Robert Kagan: Do you think the American public will have a problem with that?
Hillary: Are you kidding? My supporters are able to rationalize anything.
Robert Kagan: Good enough! You still coming over tonight to play Cards Against Humanity? Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bolton will be there.
Hillary: I'll bring the onion dip.
It's worse than we all thought!!!!
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Bernie is the real deal; Hillary is whatever is required at the moment to curry favor.
JMHO
longship
(40,416 posts)That's what I want to know about in this primary. Curry flavor!
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Bernie lacks experience and looks like a grumpy old man.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)for years, re-elected every two years, and then in Congress for about 24-25 years. And Bernie has been re-elected by large margins to his seat in Congress, first the House and then the Senate.
In contrast, Hillary was always the politician's wife until she ran for Congress in New York State. She ran twice and served around 7-8 years. Then she was picked as Sec. of State and served for 3-4 years. She has very little experience compared to Bernie. And she has far less experience with winning elections. Far less.
Bernie is the candidate if you want experience.
riversedge
(70,311 posts)have a great day.
NobodyInParticular
(102 posts)Read Zerohedge: The market under the oligarch's leadership the market is about to crumble: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-14/its-not-just-etfs-anymore-cash-bond-markets-are-plunging In his long career from a local politician to his years in the Senate his impact has been consistently positive. As a candidate for the presidency he is endorsed by top economists--http://www.budget.senate.gov/democratic/public/index.cfm/2015/7/top-economists-are-backing-sen-bernie-sanders-on-establishing-a-15-an-hour-minimum-wage.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)People don't like her. It's as simple as that.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)Do I count?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Hillary is viewed as the candidate who wins polls of Democrats, but her negatives are high.
Bernie has low negatives, high positive on things like honest and trustworthy and overall likable.
Most Democrats have been conned into thinking that Hillary is the inevitable candidate who will win the primary. If true, that will be very sad because I for one do not think she can win the general election. Her negatives are too high. Fair or not, that's the way it is.
I think the Republican candidate will be Ted Cruz. That's just my guess.
treestar
(82,383 posts)that to have these qualities you have to have money.
It can't be true though. Many people have led and come right out of the lower classes.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Bernie is the one who is from a working class family. Not Hillary.
treestar
(82,383 posts)The Kennedys (upper); Hillary, Obama (middle) or Bernie, Joe Biden (working). A Democrat is a Democrat and being from the working class is not a requirement.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Bluest blood there ever was. But I guess he is off the island now.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The Roosevelts were a special case all their own. Not many like them among the blue bloods of today. But there are some good people.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Great Democrats come from all classes.
Teddy was completely off the hook..... People only think about his macho pursuits, but he also spoke 4 or 5 languages and read a book a day.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)You did, of course (stating it as an incontrovertible fact), but there is no proof to this assertion. Perhaps her confidence stems from her intelligence, already on display when she was chosen to give the commencement address at her graduation from Wellesley:
Republican Sen. Edward Brooke, the first black senator to ever be popularly elected and whose campaign Clinton once volunteered for, was the main speaker at the graduation. Brooke spoke first and suggested the anti-war protests sweeping across college campuses were a poor way of exercising students' constitutional right to assemble, saying "coercive protests" would discourage support from people empathetic to their cause. Clinton, who had led demonstrations against the Vietnam War on campus, wasn't afraid to take a moment to go off script and respond to Brooke's speech.
We're not in the positions yet of leadership and power, but we do have that indispensable task of criticizing and constructive protest and I find myself reacting just briefly to some of the things that Senator Brooke said. ... Part of the problem with empathy with professed goals is that empathy doesn't do us anything. We've had lots of empathy; we've had lots of sympathy, but we feel that for too long our leaders have used politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible.
http://www.bustle.com/articles/76154-hillary-clintons-graduation-speech-at-wellesley-college-was-inspiring-in-1969-her-words-still-hold
Perhaps her confident demeanor comes from her years working for the Children's Defense Fund, or on the Watergate Committee, or from the time Jimmy Carter appointed her to the board of the Legal Services Corp. (legal aid). Or from her long law career. Or her eight years as senator of the State of New York, or her long-fought primary of 2008 (I didn't vote for her), or from her tenure as Secretary of State, where she met with leaders from hundreds of countries.
Or maybe she's just a confident person, and always was. Your presupposition that her confidence comes from wealth is very weak sauceas if any socialite debutante could do what she has and is doing. It's, frankly, offensive to women and their accomplishments.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)She stands, speaks and moves in the manner of persons whose confident presence is based on intelligence, drive and experience.
My dad saw her speak at an education policy convention before Bill was elected president. Bill was supposed to speak, but couldn't so Hillary took over at the last minute. My mom asked how he liked Bill Clinton. He said he didn't know, but his wife was WONDERFUL. Long before there was any wealth, fame or particular power.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)So much for intelligence, drive and experience.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Hillary is STILL the Best....because more of US think so!