It won't hurt you to read it:

https://berniesanders.com/press-release/paris-climate-accord-goes-nowhere-near-far-enough-sanders-says/

He said it's a good start but we need to do better. If you care about the world your kids and grandkids will be living in, you should care.

And he didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama.

THANK YOU, President Obama for working so hard, for so many years, to finally get 200 countries to sign onto an agreement.

As flawed as it is, it's a start.

If you don't think so, please tell me when in history almost 200 diverse countries have signed an agreement that would require real SACRIFICES for future good?

Maybe Bernie doesn't do enough for show, right? Perhaps he's too much cake and too little frosting, but it shouldn't be too hard for his advisers to show him how to be more flowery and less blunt. Should be easy enough to put a little more frosting on all that goodness.

I personally am very happy about the agreement. I know it doesn't go far enough, but it is wonderful to have most of the nations on earth getting together to begin to try to save this planet. I'm rather thrilled at the togetherness of the whole thing.

And I'm also kinda delighted that it's a bit of a thorn in the climate deniers' sides.

Obama and Kerry managed to pull it off.

It's up to everyone to put great pressure on Congress to move things along. BUT having 200 countries agree that climate change is REAL and demands sacrifice will undermine everything the Rethugs have been saying.

And that changes everything -- I hope.

God knows, we needed one.

And I am very happy with the combination of Obama and Kerry. They seem to work well together, and I am glad that Kerry has found a position as engrossing and demanding of his strengths as this. I've always felt bad about the swiftboating he took from the creepos and have a sense that this job is restoring something for him.

Read it right here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027446295

Last edited Tue Dec 15, 2015, 01:15 PM - Edit history (1)

I guess. [font color = red]ON EDIT: corrected the below link[/font]

http://news.yahoo.com/india-china-saudi-arabia-happy-climate-pact-153738758.html

I wonder why?

If Bernie was President, he would be making the case to go further than what it is now agreed upon. Probably a 3% REDUCTION by 2020.

Apparently his supporters know as little about the history of climate change negotiations and international diplomacy as he does.

cooperate with Bernie, because, ya know, Bernie...not.

John Kerry said as much--he knew that was about as far as we could go in this round.

Funny, the wingnuts are saying everything from "We'll sacrifice our sovereignty" to "It isn't anywhere near enough to be effective so why bother" -- anything to distract and diminish this remarkable Obama administration achievement.

This is a first step of many more to follow.

It is something...better than nothing.

But there is nothing that Bernie said that isn't true. It doesn't go far enough. Other climate scientists and activists said the same thing. If there was ever a critical issue facing everyone, this is it and what we do in the next few years could mean the difference in going off the edge or just skirting it.

And if you read into Kerry's comments, I think he feels the same way.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/79daf872-8894-11e5-90de-f44762bf9896.html#axzz3uMtlNtzh

for future gain?

I can't remember that ever happening, can you?

Actually doing it is the sacrifice.

Congress to do our part.

But it's a tottler step rather than the leap that is needed. There are certainly positive aspects of the Paris Accord, but there is no legally binding enforcement to put real teeth in the deal, no carbon tax.

Bernie, James Hansen and other climate scientists and activists who know how desperate the situation is, how close to catastrophe we really are, are criticizing for good reason.

Instead of making moderate consistent changes over the last three to four decades that climate change has been known about, we did nothing and went the opposite direction allowing Laissez-faire capitalism to run roughshod. Now we need to bite the bullet or risk paying a much much higher price.

The low expectations brigade rides again..

There's a difference between making statements and getting people to sign agreements.

Bernie is good at putting the challenges out there - we need to do much more against climate change, we need a higher minimum wage, we need free college tuition, we need single payer health insurance.

It's good to put challenges out there. Raises the bar and gets people thinking. But being an effective president requires compromise and diplomacy to get anything done.

Obama is getting things done.

Of course she is, she helped sell fracking to the world:

How Hillary Clinton's State Department Sold Fracking to the World

Is Bernie supposed to rubber stamp everything the president does? Because Hillary sure doesn't, look at how she criticized his foreign policy in Syria.

What a bizarre op.

eom

No wonder we've swung so far to the right, we want someone who will nod and smile and never fight for anything.

eom

When I read that, I knew Hillary does not give a damn what happens to the world we live in.

... and they wonder why we don't like her.

Utterly bizarre.

eom

at the same time. We're still just on the first page, but at least we're reading from the same book now.

eom

The environmental organization, like Hillary, praises it for what it accomplished while pointing out what still needs to happen.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/press/releases/kumi-naidoo-cop21-final-text-paris-climate/

He's negative about everything....even a global climate agreement with 200 countries.

This is why he's no Obama.

Obama was a positive person and an uplifting candidate.

Bernie just comes across as an asshole.

Please check this out, Cali..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110231992

Thank you!

Mahalo~

He is a doomsdayer with a sky is always falling attitude. Never happy about anything, never smiles. I would hate to have him as a President.

Sanders' unofficial slogan "Let's blame someone"

He makes speeches about his ideal world and expects to somehow end up there by…. I don't know, magic?

He has never really had to hammer out compromises himself. So much easier to sit in his Vermont Tower and point his finger at all the sell-out pragmatists dealing with Republicans and Big Business.

He is competent to be POTUS but he would be a disaster.

I started out respecting his votes. But the longer this primary campaign goes on, the less I can stand him.

His obnoxious, fellow ideologue supporters probably feed into that.

And when his supporters hit the early primary/caucus states right before they happen, I think his support will plummet.

Or not good enough. All free college all the time or not good enough. Single payer or not good enough. There is a theme.

But then, social issues, wedge issues, we can just set them aside and deal with the important stuff.

Bowing to the Republicans when we should be fighting for liberal causes isn't.

What has Bernie said we need to "set aside and deal with the important stuff"?

Hillary set aside abortion rights more than once, Bernie never did because he's always trusted women to make their own decisions.

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...Huh, wonder why you forgot to point this out - That both candidates agree with this legislation - rather then going off and trying to paint the person saying "...But lets try to do better" as a opponent of the agreement.

Seriously - Why are we decrying a person who says we should do more to combat climate change?

Even more hilariously, both candidates said the same fucking things - This is a good bill, but lets not stop here. The diffrence is that Bernie used more simple terms and was more outright about it.

through Obama's efforts was much more positive than Bernie's.

But you are right. Both candidates say that this is just the beginning.

P.S. There is a post on this topic in the Bernie group right now, with the headline of how Bernie isn't impressed. It's also on the home page. Maybe you should make this point to them, since their post prompted me to write this one.

That topic isn't - Yours, however, is.

That said, the topic isn't showing on the homepage for me - This one is however.

In any event, you're the one trying to paint the candidates differently even though they both in agreement that this is a good first step, and that we should work to make further steps in the future.

as if he doesn't understand the huge obstacles Obama surmounted in getting this agreement passed.

That means we shouldn't try to do better?

Huh. Ok. That's... sound advice, I guess. Bettering ourselves is to hard, so lets not even try.

The hardest things are worth fighting for. Women fighting for the right to vote knew it. AA's during the Civil Rights era knew it. The LGBT community during the DOMA era knew it. They knew that what they sought would require surpassing large obstacles, and they were willing to fight for what they saw as right. Workers fighting for safe workplace conditions knew it - And they knew the risks for if they failed. Workers knew the risks for trying to Unionize back in the past, but that didn't stop them from forming Unions to better the lives of themselves, and other workers.

History is full of hard battles, it is full of huge obstacles. And we've only come this far because people were willing to take on these obstacles, rather then settling for or accepting their lot in life.

I am saying that just because there is a great deal still to be accomplished doesn't mean anyone should minimize what Obama helped bring about.

It would have been gracious of Bernie to acknowledge that, as Hillary did. But Senator Grumpy can rarely bring himself to say anything positive about the President these days.

in the Bernie group on this topic? They are impressed with the fact that Bernie's not impressed.

Strawmen are the op's specialty.

Expecting the world to change overnight is unrealistic and will just encourage doing nothing. Breaking things down into smaller easier to enact chunks is the far better path. Yes, ideally we'd have a much stronger agreement, but given how much work it is to get 200 governments to agree on what day it is, much less something like this, it's silly to think that Sanders would have gotten a better agreement.

Like Hillary and Martin, they at least recognized how much Obama accomplished, while acknowledging how much still needs to be done.

But what would they know?

all two hundred countries who worked on the Paris Climate Change Agreement for so long!

Thank you, Hillary, for appreciating what has been accomplished and knowing it is something to build on..


"The Paris agreement is testament to America's ability to lead the world in building a clean energy future where no one is left out or left behind," she said in a statement. "And it was made possible in part by every person, business owner and community in the United States and around the world that stepped up to prove we don't have to choose between growing our economy and protecting our kids' health and future - we can do both."

Mahalo pnwmom

But Greenpeace gave him credit for turning the page. They realized how difficult it was to get 200 countries to even read from the same book.

Come on pnwmom, you're cooing over how impressive this agreement is. Show me. Impress me.

Or did you just not understand what you were reading in that one? Greenpeace gives even fainter praise than Sanders did, and their criticism is much sharper.

But he couldn't ram faster and more all-encompassing change down the throats of 200 leaders of other countries. Only a complete neophyte -- or a smart political person who knows what his supporters want him to say -- would have implied that he could have done significantly better than Obama at this point in time.

And again, do you have any genuine interest in this subject?

I know why the Rethugs are silent on this, but why Bernie?

And was far less critical than the greenpeace article you've been citing.

third time, do you actually have a genuine interest in this subject, pnwmom?

praise for Obama and his HUGE effort to make it this far. And the MAJOR accomplishment it was to get 200 countries to agree on anything significant.

What significant items were agreed to at Paris?

Your entire OP hinges on that slightly sarcastic-sounding word. But he didn't say it.

He said it's a good start but we need to do more.

Which is absolutely TRUE, pnwmom.

And don't go pitting him against Obama, either.

Unlike Martin and Hillary, who gave Obama credit for all his work in bringing this about.

moved an inch forward without years of Obama's efforts.

And now your goal is "Insufficiently fawning over the president?"

It's not about Obama's "accomplishments"...it's about saving ourselves from environmental destruction .

Just dumping on it links Bernie up with the Rethug detractors.

Please, young people all over the world will suffer greatly if we don't get down to it here.

public pressure on legislators to move this forward.

We need the public to put pressure on Congress -- or dump the Rethugs.

We need a response to climate change now. Time's up.

Or rather maybe... how many more decades do you confidently estimate you have left?

I ask because quite honestly, that's likely a major source of disconnecr between you and me, and other posters on this particular subject.

You're in no rush. you'll be dead before the shit really hits the fan, most likely. Others of us aren't so fortunate.

We are leaving them a Hell on Earth. Half measures and compromises will not do.

Something you need to know, pnwmom: this is not a petty little competitive game between Bernie and Obama. I KNOW Bernie likes and supports Obama and I am sure he appreciates what it took for the world to finally get America to the table and for Obama to throw himself into it. But Bernie is not into the ego/flattery stuff. He has his eyes on reality and his heart with the people (and, in this case, all creatures who live on this earth). He knows we're in trouble and cannot afford to mess around much longer.

I really do not like it when y'all try to play Bernie against Obama. They like and appreciate one another and I'm sure neither would want you to do that.

She's faulting him for being honest, and it's clear she has no idea that's why so many people respect Bernie.

He puts issues before politics.

they put politics before issues.

I visited DI and then "conservative cave" this weekend and am at my wit's end trying to figure out how I could reach those people. Sadly, I feel the same way about reaching some right here.

But it's always nice to see you.

Ya give me hope, kid.

She really tied herself into a knot trying to spin this into a bad thing.

I hear you, I stay away from sites like DI, I have enough rightwingers to deal with in real life.

I come here because I crave the company of liberals.

Although to hear how some DUers slam Bernie for being too far to the left I have to wonder if some of them wouldn't be happier at DI.

There are almost 200 countries involved. They barely agreed to sign this treaty. That's the problem with purists, it's either all or nothing for them. The reality is that they got the best deal that they could get under the circumstances.

Basically 200 nations got together and said "Yup, if we don't meet these goals, we're kinda fucked." And then after agreeing to that, they all went home to keep on fracking and coal mining like nothing else, 'cause at the end of the way, it's their energy corporations and hteir investors that have the balls of the law in their hand, firmly-squeezed.

about to give up.

We need to bring the fossil fuel companies, and all giant corporations, to heel. This is a democracy, not a corporatocracy. And this is life on earth, not life in the penthouse.

Bernie is the only candidate who will admit to seeing how topsy-turvy it has become.

This does not help us.

Nobody is really talking about that much. We're discussing if we can limit this to a 2c experiment or if we are going to run a subsequent 4c experiment.

As it stands this agreement is toothless, primarily because the US will not accept an enforceable treaty, and that is because our federal legislature is dominated by a party that has sworn allegiance to the proposition that catastrophic climate change is a commie conspiracy. That ain't Obama's fault, but it is our collective fault and our collective shame.

Why don't you chill...this kind of agreements are good but oftentimes not good enough -good in that many countries came together and agreed on some things, but not good enough because common ground tends to be narrow and enforcement mechanisms are not forceful enough.

These agreements are important, but we should go much further and not be complacent.
This issue itself is important. Not everything has to be about competition between our candidates...

where people were positively impressed with Bernie's not being impressed.

I'm not. I think the Dems should have presented a solid front in strongly supporting this.

with the planet than the Democratic Party.

(I don't mean to shock you.)

is a simple matter of just being determined enough.

Obama is clearly determined. I'm convinced he accomplished as much as was possible at this point in time.

But as Bernie says, we must keep pushing forward on it. We're not there yet.

Trying to push the envelope as far as one can - can't compare to the wisdom of beginning negotiations at the lowest common denominator of 200 nation-states.

President. This is not North Korea, you know. Sen. Sanders and the vast majority of just of us progressives understand very well that the Republicans are far worse. EVERYONE gets that, I hope. But if the popular meme is that the Clinton's, President Obama and the mainstream centrist leadership are as far left and radical as one can possibly go - anything that goes farther is just too crazy to even take seriously. If that is the common wisdom of the nation and no one even tries to push the envelope any farther - by default we will simply become watered down version of the old style moderate Republicans.

One can make a choice to support policy makers because they are a lot better than the only nationally viable alternative party without making themselves a parody. One can always push the envelope farther when it has not been pushed far enough. One can do that without making themselves look ridiculous with fawning praise of our leaders. One can try to push their favored candidate - even point out faults in their opponent without going to such extremes. One is not going to win over Bernie's supporters with constant browbeating.

... so I guess that makes us even.

People taking Bernie to task for TELLING THE TRUTH about a weak and toothless accord that's more than 40 years overdue, and pretending that he didn't acknowledge the little bit of progress and window dressing that was made.

AND, as others have pointed out, making it some kind of sour-grapes thing among the candidates.

Some of this shit is getting tiring.

that Bernie wasn't impressed with the agreement, and all of his supporters were fine with that.

They just don't like it to be brought up here, and compared with Hillary's and Martin's more positive responses.

it's about perceived sensibilities of the candidates and how supportive they are of the bought process.

what music to play at the funeral for the planet, I guess.

The pledges in that deal get us to 3C not 1.5C like they're touting in the press releases.

At 3C we are pretty much done. Rainforests burned away, scarcity of fresh-water, etc etc.

him, Kerry and other negotiators. I think so many across America recognize the hard work Pres Obama and his team put into getting an agreement from 200 nations and to be grouchy and immediately pounce on the deal is petty.