you will think you misjudged her.

Her record is pretty damn clear. She will do or say anything if it advances her interests.

I mean no matter how low I set my expectations, somehow mainstream politicians manage to limbo under them.

Bryant

I never bought Limbaugh's argument that Obama was "the most liberal Senator" but I thought he'd be somewhat more liberal than he has been.

My current opinion of Clinton is considerably lower than was my opinion of Obama in 2008, so I'm guessing that, if elected, she will NOT prove to be worse than I expect. She'd have to be quite the limbo artist to get under the low bar of my prediction for her.

I would prefer him to Clinton a million times over.

He seems to have learned, from experience, that he was overly optimistic in his initial efforts to deal with the Republicans as if they were rational people.

My guess is that, if he had his first term to do over again, one change he'd make would be a move toward the left, being less accommodating to the GOP.

I though he was going to be a liberal President, but he turned out to be a disaster. He lost the House for us big time and had no coattails in presidential elections where the winner usually does have some coattails. He helped to end some significant New Deal/Great Society legislation, and the tech crash that started in his last year probably had a negative effect on Al Gore's campaign. He's also best buds now with the family that stole the 2000 election from his vice president.

Bleah!

will it be befuddled grandma Hillary who says she doesn't understand the peculiarities of deleting computer files, or tech expert Hillary who is set to re-educate silicon valley on the mathematical underpinnings of encryption technology?

Will it be "marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman" Hillary or "everyone should have the right to marry" Hillary?

will it be the Hillary Clinton who wanted to outlaw Flag Burning, or her more recent iteration, the Hillary Clinton who thinks the threat of ISIS is best dealt with by wholesale government censorship of the internet?

will it be the Hillary Clinton who has acknowledged that some states are legalizing marijuana, or the Hillary Clinton who wanted to ramp up the drug war and throw billions more at the DEA?

will it be the Hillary Clinton who voted for the Iraq War, or the Hillary Clinton who thinks that vote was a mistake?


......I hope you're right.

including American soldiers -- 2,000!. Misjudged her, she is still a fucking war mongerer and does not give a shit about brown people. You really want her to be your President?

The shit she said about President Obama was tiresome, yet he gave her some credibility by selecting her as Secretary of State, she could not wait to dump her portfolio to concentrate to run for the Presidency. Anyone on here who supports her for President of the US is out of your mind.

I kinda wonder if her stoogies are back on here rooting for her. Which reminds me, and am asking this again -- Anyone who ran for the presidency a second time and lost the first time is still electable.

Mrs. Clinton needs to go away!

She is a horrible woman, only cares for her own ilk and does not give a rat's ass about working class people. She is for Wall Street and you folks encourage her rather than oppose her! If that is the kind of President you want, well go root for her and get all your friends to vote for her.

The Clintons never gave a shit about working class people, all she pipes about is about the middle class. Same shit like President Obama. If your President does not care about the working class, then who the fuck cares about them. By the way, the working class is the biggest voting majority. Perhaps they should stay home and allow a fucktard like trump to win. The working class in America is fucked, no matter who they vote for! Just my opinion!

Clinton if she is the Democratic nominee.

I would NEVER tell a Canadian or citizen from another country that they should NOT vote in their own elections.

This is a disciple post

Not a single vote has been cast, polls look good for Bernie, and his campaign is spot on track with his stated strategy.

What broke ?

fool like Trump is on 24/7 and Hillary is polling as a "champion of the people and labor" when she won't even support a $15 minimum wage, when her plan to reign in the greed of big banks and Wall Street is "cut it out guys", when the head of the democratic party is all in the tank for her and will not allow more debates than 6 on nights when no one pays attention to inform the American people of the issues and solutions put out by Democratic candidates it's easy to see what is broken. Yeah the people back Bernie because he's the one we need but I'm not sure with all the manipulation that will be enough.

Last edited Wed Dec 16, 2015, 08:38 AM - Edit history (1)

Bernie won't pull it off without us, and democracy desperately needs this win against the oligarchs.

We've got a candidate with courage, a goal, and a plan to get there. He's asking for our help. What else do we need?

Maybe that's because I'm one of the people on the ground and in the streets grass rooting it.

When they finally see someone who connects them to his message, they are ready to hear more.

to "not sure if he WILL pull it off"

I know he can, but I know it's a long shot. Bernie has said so as well...

He's currently ahead in two - his native Vermont and neighboring New Hampshire, where the lead has been flipping back and forth the for the last month or so. He's down anywhere from 14 to 20+ percent in Iowa, and not competitive in just about every other state that has had significant polls.

Quite honestly, the polls look bad for Sanders.

That's my prediction.

That's for sure.

for her because of that.

For most of the rest of us...sadly that won't be the case.



But hey...IT'S HER TURN...AGAIN!

Not really the best way to go into the general.

toast. I pray I am wrong but that's how I see it. Terra Terra.

stand a shot at the white House with one of the others. I agree, if it's Rubio she's toast.

The first caucus hasn't even happened yet.

Don't base anything you know about what is going on with the campaign with either the mainstream media or this website.

The media has all but ignored Sanders so obviously people are link-starved for things to post here. This cuts back a lot on material we can put up.

Instead get your butt out there and do some real-life door knocking for the campaign.

do some work for them. I suggested several ways I could and they are going to get back to me. I already have a Bernie sign up.

I live in NE Minneapolis and volunteered at the State Fair once.

calls into areas so that local people can make the calls to their own area some of us who do not have transportation can make those calls from home. That would work for people who cannot afford to poll long distance.

Geez, not a single vote has been cast yet!

I know only ONE person who is for Hillary. She calls herself a Democrat, but she says things like, "I like a balance of conservatives & liberals," and "No one complains when Blacks kill each other -- why do they complain when a cop kills one?" We no longer speak.

Everyone else I know is for Bernie -- male, female, young, middle-aged, senior. Hillary owns the media, and they are lying to us.

Think about that before you asquiesce her nomination.

....is no different than the Rethugs you fear. Distrust...is nothing to be ignored!

Looks that way. She has been running an amazing campaign and really talking about the issues we care about so much.

And I think she's a piss poor ge candidate and a lousy campaigner, but the deck in the nomination fight is about as heavily stacked in her favor as could possibly be.

Really says a lot about how you view the rest of the field. lol. Sanders couldn't have more going for him. He has the media going after Clinton every day. Right wingers attacking her non-stop. Paul supporters acting as if they are attacking her from the left. Bullshit committees set up to derail her campaign. She just keeps becoming more popular. I love that it can even be insinuated that it's stacked in her favor. She is running one of the most thoughtful and well planned campaigns we have ever seen. She clearly learned a lot from her friend Obama.

When has she ran a GE campaign as you suggest? Where in the world are you getting your info?

And it's laughable to claim the MSM has gone after Clinton egregiously. That is one of the silliest myths i've seen

NYT didn't fabricate a story or anything. They didn't then continue the story after they actually admitted it was wrong. I won't even entertain the concept the right pushes of the left wing media. The media has tried everything possible to make it a race on our side by attacking Clinton. I'm not going to whitewash the right wing media. Not going to happen.

Sanders, the only career politician on the dem side. Sanders has lost more elections than Clinton has been in.

I agree, Clinton is an insider.

When has Clinton ran in the GE as you suggested?

I bout busted a gut when I read that post. The media will only go after her if she wins the nomination, then they will take her down in a heartbeat. Scandals 24/7, until then she's safe as a newborn babe.

Up is down-left is right-black is white etc. Very Orwellian. Like Bush's Clear Skies Initiative

Clinton or Sanders?

Oh please.

for the primary. Since 2008, she's talked a whole lot to Wall St. oligarchs at $200,000 a pop, but she hasn't said zip about OUR issues. Now why would that be?

Suddenly, suddenly, she has a slew of new ideas on how to make life better for the little people. My goodness, did she think these up herself? Or does she pay for policy positions out of her multi-million dollar campaign fund?

What do you think? Do you think she's been dormant all these years and suddenly woke up? Do you think her Wall St. obeisance indicates concern for YOU, NCTraveler, or for ME? Or, closer to my genuinely liberal heart, for those who are struggling every day to hold on to a viable, just viable, life for themselves and their children?

Are you really that gullible? Don't give me the old self-satisfied smirk, because then I'll know you're a Republican at heart.

"Now why would that be?" SOS is one of the most powerful positions in the world and you simply gloss over it. That is telling.

We're talking about making life better for the struggling poor and lower middle class in this country. Seems you can't address that, so you bring up Hillary's stint as SOS ("I visited xx number of countries!&quot as some sort of refutation to my comment about domestic programs. That's illogical. You just want to tout what you think are this person's "great" achievements, but holding a position is different from performing it well. Her performance as SOS was undistinguished with a shocking substratum of quid pro quo weapons sales to questionable countries that gave huge donations to the "Clinton Foundation." Kerry's stint has shown us what a good (and honorable) SOS can do. She did not excel at her sole carpet-bagged elected office nor at her appointment (by Obama, for political reasons) to SOS.

And you won't even touch her attitude toward the neediest Americans. You're coming in loud and clear, NCTraveler. BTW, I don't like the sarcastic use of the "hug" smilie, so please refrain.

Shall I add a smirky little "lol" now? Don't think so.

an uphill fight.

I try to keep this in mind: if we fight for Sanders and the third-way centrists nevertheless win, Sanders has definitely pushed the party back toward its historic roots in progressivism and liberalism. If Sanders does not win, the high-water mark he sets will be a baseline for Warren 2020.

With Clinton's huge net unfavorability and untrustworthiness ratings among independents, split-ticket voters in both parties, and younger Democrats, I am pessimistic about our chances in the general election if we nominate Clinton and the Republicans nominate anyone but Trump. I think Sanders has a path forward to the nomination, but it's a narrow path. If we don't win this time, I'll work for Clinton, but when she loses the general election (as seems likely if Sanders cannot pull of an upset in the primary), I'll be looking for Warren 2020 to take back the White House.

She's just daring me not to vote for her. The prospect becomes easier to imagine every time she opens her mouth.

Way to keep up the morals for Bernie campaign

I think you meant "morale."

How are you?

Morals are one thing. Morale is a completely different thing. You didn't make a spelling error. You chose the wrong word to express what you meant to say.

How am I? Tired, old, and frustrated. Thanks for asking.

Have they changed the door mat?

Most people here have removed their door mats for the winter. Door mats are a PITA when snow and ice arrives.

Whatever you are asking is beyond my ability to answer.

I was wondering if the neighbours did something about it. A lot of tension in condos.

I live in a 1950s rambler in a neighborhood of others very much like it. No condos nearby. Your post is meaningless to me.

Why are you so upset? Calm down! Lol

If you're wrong, you're wrong.

Why would I self delete? It was a different poster I was thinking about. Geez!

[IMG][/IMG]

Cheer up!

Good on you for not letting yourself be pushed around.

Context.

Try to resist the joy of the put-down, MineralMan.

Don't let them discourage you.

If he were to win NH and at least come close to a draw in Iowa... the dynamic may change. There are several LARGE super Tuesday states in which Sanders has a LOT of support.

Even if he doesn't get the nomination .... the Sanders phenomenon is a movement, not a "campaign." He'll push on thru the convention, even if it's a foregone conclusion. And most of his supporters will be with him all the way..... with time, energy and money.

He doesn't have one problem that all of the rest, DEM and GOP, have ( except Trump): corporate money's not going to pull out after a lopsided defeat or two.

He doesn't HAVE any to begin with. And we.... his his actual financial backers.... are not looking for jobs, or favors.

We're just looking for more representative government.

We can't be bought off; and neither... it now seems obvious..... can HE.

I don't get that many compliments these days.

and I'm sorry to hear about the dearth of compliments. Hope that changes soon.

ever since 2000 the party's sent out bouncers to push us in the face, Big Nurses to tell us everything's the voters' fault and that they're calling our mother, footmen and hall monitors and blue-linkers

Clinton treats us like a kid who has to be kept away from the stove; she hires DWS to entertain us and wipe our noses until 9 o'clock when it's time for a bath and footie pajamas, so she can have some peace and quiet and get some work done, for once; Sanders treats us like our age

and you know what? we're getting an against-the-grain old guy that people are starting to LISTEN to, someone not from the establishment, not from Politics As Usual, someone who's anticipated all our questions (even on what it takes to change Congress and the statehouses), someone whose C-SPAN vidous you can send to your Fox-addict Asshole Uncle



see that? his trendline doesn't go down for more than a few days, because when someone hears him they stay with him; he doesn't have the usual sort of charisma, but nobody's "going back": Clinton can't win Sanders supporters because she'd relied on being the only candidate running; even her lead is from Biden supporters who bounced back to her

...see, that goes back three years. if you focus on May 1-present (when Sanders announced) or Sept 1-present (after Hillary stopped her summer decline), you see that Clinton has maintained her gap with Sanders, and has largely increased her share.

at my state caucus.

But it will require both New Hampshire and Iowa. Get out to vote people!

Yes, unfortunately it is true - she is the frontrunner. But it will take the actual primary caucus and primary season to really kick in and get moving to determine where things really are at. But there is no denying Hillary's strong frontrunner status.

But, there can be nothing better than pushing the one truly progressive candidate, Bernie Sanders. This campaign - win or lose - can fundamentally alter the paradigm of mainstream political discussion. By creating a real pushback against the right-wing forces within the Democratic Party - we may or may not mainstream Democratic Socialism - but we have a good shot at least of mainstreaming the New Deal.

The Clinton/Obama wing will kill it dead if they manage to consolidate their power further with a win this election.

did with Rahm. never said shit about all the atrocities that Rahm is doing in Chicago. Fucking birds of a feather stick to each other!

Mr. Sanders does not have a chance, he is not making young votes come out and support him. Meanwhile, Mrs. Clinton has the Black and Hispanic vote on her side.

Whoever said that politics is fair? I really wish Mr. Sanders will be the nominee, wishful thinking is all it is. Can you imagine that a walk the talk person will lose to a wall street supporter?

She will be surrounded and pushed and prodded by hundreds of personnel. I think we focus far too much on the individual and not the team he/she will bring with her.

It will be a Democratic team. Granted, you may not like all those team members but if a small fraction of the energy expended here on DU was used to try and get her to where we want her, who knows, we might make progress after all.

Anything is better than giving up.
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And I do think that past is prologue.

I think she's a danger, albeit less of one than any republican.