And I thought a site with Democratic in the damn name would be good place for me.

I've received 2 hides here, both for defending Hillary too enegetically.

So maybe not.

Last edited Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Stick around until after the primaries and everyone here will be defending Hillary.

Dem nominee. If it is Hillary and that looks likely then you support her or you won't be here.

we just can't come on to du and actively campaign or advocate for her opponents. we are still free to discuss her as a candidate or not to say anything at all about her.

important difference to those who are not big fans of hillary

instead of interpreting it for the newbies?

In fact, I don't think it would hurt if you were to take a refresher course in TOS yourself.

DU doesn't go for calling names...I'd delete if I were you.

I haven't been here for a while, but was a huge fan of DU during our Time in the Wilderness (Bush administration). Maybe because I've been very, very happy with our President and really, really sick of the haters from the right, I haven't spent a lot of time here because of all the carping I've seen the few times I've peeped outside the Lounge since Mr Obama's election. I get enough carping and negativity about the President from rightwing idiots.

Now I peak into the Lounge and see that if I'm not "feeling the Bern" I'm not really welcome here.

I was an Obama supporter (and worker) in 2007 and 2011 even though I liked Hillary. My SO was and remains and huge Hillary fan. Now, I'm sort of agnostic, but leaning Hillary because I trust her so much on international issues. I'm a huge Thom Hartmann fan, and he has sold me on Bernie, but I'm afraid that the majority of (dopey) Americans just aren't sophisticated to get past the "socialist" label.

But reading through the "Greatest" posts, it would seem that anyone who is Team Hillary is clearly not to be trusted, and up to all sorts of diabolical plots to subvert Honest and True Bernie supporters.

I'll be back after the primaries to post, and out in the real world to work my ass off for whoever wins. The future of this country depends on it. The very, very, very best Republican (none come to mind) would be a total disaster, so whoever the Dems put up, I'm there. Bernie or Hillary.

It's also ok not to like her. Not liking her doesn't make someone a hillary hater of a mysoginist. Calling people hillary-haters is the easy, low-calorie way to dismiss the things that some people don't want in a president.

The OP is an excercise in rectal extraction.

Some like the author of article are more valid.

Hell, back in the 1970s she worked for a law firm that specialized in defending corporate clients against the "little people". For example, she helped to make sure that residential utility rate payers in Little Rock couldn't get a break on their rates. She also cozied up to Walmart and has received million$$$$$ from other corporations.

voters.

I like Clinton, but she's a weak general election candidate because she is mistrusted by pretty much every demographic other than middle age and older Democrats.

tells us anything but what is going on now not then.

feels about the candidates.

This is how we know that Trump probably cannot win a general election even if he squeaks by and wins the primary. The opinions that Democrats and independents have formed about Trump are troublingly similar to the opinions that Republicans and independents have about Clinton.

Independents are not a homogeneous group.

My wife is an independent because she doesn't want to declare a party preference.

If Hillary is in the general my wife will vote for her. She doesn't hate Hillary and I think there are a lot like her.

widely (that's what the polling indicates) and independents feel about H. Clinton more-or-less how Republicans feel about B. Clinton and Obama (which is not good).

What you post will not stop Hillary becoming President.

people who are seriously opposed to racism, people who are seriously in favor of economic justice, etc. Feminists who are sick of hearing "legal safe, and rare," and fully comprehend what welfare reform meant for women.

I'll vote for her if she is the nominee, and I hope most other people will, too. But I don't trust her.

I will vote for Hillary in the NY Democratic primary. Hillary is a Democrat and represents the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

Hillary has hegemony over all people without Y-chromosomes.

Why isn't there a smilie for rolling eyes?!

Nonetheless, I'm rolling my eyes at your ignorance.

make a statement.

But by the reaction of people I think the article if read would touch nerves.

The author sure as hell describes a lot of what goes on here.

We've had it for eons--it came with us in the last upgrade.



You didn't post much, did you, until recently--about a fourth of your posts have happened in the last three months. More time on your hands now?

Maybe you should take a look at the TOS, too, since you seem to have a bit more time to spare. You'll find that calling your fellow DUers "ignorant" is frowned upon.

Here--helpful link, just for you:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

I have talked with trailblazer feminists, including an astonishing number of LWV who do not support her in the primary. Welfare reform, being weakly supportive of abortion rights and selling out the sisterhood in the 90s are reasons I have heard. As one said "even my grandmother had the good sense to set and example for my mom and divorce her philandering husband." Several are also not comfortable with her hawkishness.

The myth that women and even feminists are a monolithic group when it comes to supporting Hillary is condescending. But, by all means let them continue to overestimate and feel excessively confident.

Her ethics and mine are different in places and I have a different view than hers on many political questions, but I like her and admire her.

like they aren't the morally unhinged and intellectually suspect one for making such a claim with the generalizing broad brush they attempt to condemn others over the use of...

It's always all the more amusing when they are trying to scratch their way up to the intellectual or moral highground in the process.

thanks for the fine example of this

Much of what she talks about happens here everyday

whose hate more than likely originated and resides in her rather obvious inability to defend against the specific charges posed against her heroine, and likelu in hate and frustration for herself for being so impotent in the face of so many legitimate criticsims her heroine can't satisfactorily rebut.

See, playing her game is easy -- all you have to do is allege a bunch and defend nothing.

Was Hillary wrong, or was it just a "mistake" to turn her back on the Democratic Majority and help Bush, Cheney, and Rummy kill a Million Iraqis, displace 5 MILLION more, and destroy one of the most stable and advanced countries in the Middle East?

Hillary claims to be for the advancement of Women's Rights,
In Iraq (before Bush and the warmongers) women used to own property, drive cars, wear Blue Jeans, and attend school in a secular Iraq under Saddam. Sunni, Shiite, and CHristian used to live peacefully next door to each other.

Now, unfortunately, due to OUR "invasion" and "bringing democracy" Sharia Law has been re- instituted, and this beautiful country, the cradle of civilization, has been destroyed, and a great deal of its History stolen.

Hillary certainly didn't help THOSE women...
AND doesn't seem at all concerned about THOSE women being set back 300 years, along with the death and pain she helped cause in Iraq.


You said in the OP that everyone makes "mistakes".
So...was that just a "mistake",
or was it a shocking lack of judgement, and a callous decision that sacrificing all those brown people and women's rights was good for HER political convenience and advancement.

Which one do you believe it was?
You don't really believe that the Village Idiot from Crawford fooled her...do you?

as I do now that the IWR was immoral.
We invaded a country for oil.

Having said that, if I ever find a perfect person to vote for I will shout it from the mountain tops.

Hillary has much more good in her past than bad. She is the most qualified person running to be president.

Your side is trying to paint a picture of a perfect candidate running a moral campaign and is supported by the better part of our party.

You and Bernie are not on some moral high ground and you should climb down from your ivory towers.

I believe her shameful behavior, shocking lack of judgement, and turning her back on the Democratic Majority for the most important vote she would ever cast disqualifies her to hold ANY elected office.

...but those are MY values.
I will forgive her for her self-absorption/self-promotion that helped kill so many in Iraq,
but NEVER support someone with that unbelievable level of callousness for Public Office.

and platitudes.

Your much like the right wing with it's ideology. You have an ideology and no matter the outcome it's all my values.

Well hang on to your values but the rest of us have reality to deal with.

I was drafted and sent to fight in Vietnam. I had to come to terms with the idea that what I did there was against my values after years of drinking and drugs and destroying myself.

The world and life is full of nasty smelly stuff and also good and noble stuff.

We have to live with both.

I too think Senator Clinton is unfit for office. Not just the wrong choice, not just some minor policy disagreements, and not just the democratic party's plan B to be voted on with my nose pinched shut.

She is unfit for office. Just like Donald Trump and Ben Carson are unfit for office. Her IWR vote is a scarlet letter proclaiming her enthusiastic willingness to support crimes against humanity. I won't ever forget that.

worth talking to.

I doubt you have values if you so easily dismiss someone who has given her whole adult life to serving people.

To make basic decisions of right and wrong. She takes multiple sides of the same issues depending which way the wind I blowing. Her 'values' are hard to pin down.

What part of "crimes against humanity" are you fine with?

She's not a Republican. That's the best I can say about her.

Insinuating Sanders supporters 'hate' her because she is female is reprehensible.

I got called a BernieBro today. I had to remind the asshole in question that I am:

a.) Polysexual (Attracted to people of more than one gender identity, but not all gender identities. Not to be confused by polyamorous...people who have more than one concurrent sexual or romantic relationship openly; though, I am also polyamorous.)

b.) Genderqueer

...and that imposing their identity of my gender upon me knowing that my gender does not align with my biological sex is cissexist and queerphobic.

I don't trust to her to do anything for anyone not of the 1%

Hating her is my right; I am entitled to that opinion. I'm also entitled to cast my vote for whoever I want and it will never be Hillary.

Your thread has about 1000 "hits", and that includes everyone who posted to your thread multiple times like myself and several others, and those who came back to answer questions, or just reread their own posts.
That means, at MOST maybe 800 separate people clicked on you thread, and, my guess is that less than 1/2 read it all the way through.... so that leaves between 300 and 400 people in the entire WORLD that may have read you post.

We had more than 5 times that many attend my high school.
DU doesn't reach that many people anymore,
and certainly lacks the ability to change the outcome of the election.

Back in the day, it wasn't uncommon for a Top of the Greatest to receive over 100,000 hits.
and 1000 recs.
Reaching over 100,000 people a day might have some power to change something,
especially when they are 100,000 choosing to politically active...even if it is just self education.

Think more people than DUers have read it.

The article is very truthful I think. Most who agree with it did not need to read it to know the things it talks about.
I posted it because it describes much of what goes on here daily.
Not everyone is a Hillary hater on Bernie's side but many posters on this board are. I think I am correct to say everyone on Free Republic is a Hillary hater. I think that because I read their shit at times. Much of what is said by freepers is also said here.

Someone told me that he thinks some anti Hillary posts here are done by freepers.

They would not be Bernie supporters either.

But freepers could post anti Hillary shit here because it is primary season. If there are freepers posting anti Hillary shit here you can damn well be sure it gets rec'ed by Bernie supporters.

In a few months we will know who the nominee is.

At that point the TOS say you must support the nominee or not post here.

I think at nominee will be Hillary so soon this discussion will be moot on DU.

And you got banned from the Bernie Group? Can't imagine why. If I were you, with a 3 digit post count, I'd tone it down a bit.

And of course the point is illustrated by comments here. My favorites are the Hillary Iz Murdering Everybody ones.

I've never been intimidated by powerful women.

but, I will vote for Hillary if she wins because the alternative is NOT acceptable.

Most Bernie supporters would be supporting Warren over Biden.

If electing women was so important, why did Hillary support the corrupt 3rd way Coumo over having the first female governor of NY?

conference with Hillary tomorrow but I am not going to ask her that.

and wants to know if a person who is running twice for the Presidency of the US, has a chance of winning. Mrs. Clinton lies and does not come across as a viable candidate. May I remind you about the shit she said about President Obama when she so desperately wanted to be the President?

Good for her if she wins, she will kowtow to the corporate masters who are funding her campaign. The only person who cares about working class people in the US is Mr. Sanders.

who cared about working class folks was Mr Sanders.

Very craftfully pachaged this time. The suggestion that the comparison with Thatcher is purely based on genitals! Nothing to do with war-eagerness, corporate ties, carefully studied ways of talking and gesturing, personal financial suecurity...

Now that CBS is purposefully reversing numbers in order to maintain the fiction that Clinton is still ahead, maybe some voters need to be shamed into voting for Clinton again by playing the gender card.

She's a corporatist third way Democrat like the many others over the last few decades. She's done some good things, and at the same time gone along with things I find unacceptable. She's better than many or her peers and worse than a couple. Certainly nothing that makes me hate her.

What I really DO hate however and which fills me with rage is the undemocratic attempt at guilt-blackmail exhibited in opinion pieces like this one. Claiming if you don't support Hillary and you're a man that you must be sexist is absolutely diabolical, and exactly the kind of crap that makes people dislike Hillary's campaign tactics in the first place.

and I'm not a Bernie supporter, mostly because I'm not convinced he can win.

I just don't feel excited by Hillary.

give me Barbara Boxer or Elizabeth Warren or Russ Feingold any day.

Or even another 8 years of Obama.

just another post attempting to paint her detractors as motivated by irrational emotions rather than the factual analysis of her policies and record

Your statements the idea of "reaction formation" give you away

We don't try to influence each other's vote

disingenuous, it's inflammatory. I know, this is my first Primary season of posting much at DU, but it's just not right...for either candidate. This is just my opinion and wish it would stop.

Or how does one Hate the Republicans? We don't 99.99% of them, if at all. I have friends and family who are Republicans...Democrats as well. Gay, Latino, mixed race, elderly, disabled, men and women. But I don't hate Trump. I can hate what he says, though. There is a Yuuuuuge difference.

1. Post something idiotic.
2. People point out that it's idiotic.
3. Respond that "by the reaction of people I think the article if read would touch nerves," i.e., argue that the refutations of the original post prove that it's true.
4. An ally jumps in to agree that the post is true.

In a nation of more than 300 million, I'm sure there are some people who oppose Hillary Clinton solely because she's a woman, just as there are some who oppose Bernie Sanders solely because he's a Jew. So what? Selecting a few fringe commentators and trying to tar a whole group (in this case, Sanders supporters) is totally dishonest.

If you don't care about intellectual integrity, then consider this: Hillary is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY CERTAIN to be the Democratic nominee, right? Her supporters her delight in posting every poll that shows her ahead. Therefore, the smart thing for them to do is to stop maligning the supporters of those no-hoper candidates, but instead to begin laying the groundwork for recruiting them in the general election.

In that vein, here's the question: How do posts like yours and the OP affect the likelihood that Hillary will become the next President? My answer is that they have very little effect but to the extent they have any effect, it's to reduce her chances.

Never their politics. That would be demeaning!

So the Thatcher comparison falls a little flat.

I mean Iraq makes Dunkirk look like a success.

England to a United States Senator and a declaration of war to a vote on a war resolution.

Then a WWII battle to a recent U.S. instigated war.


You sure must know your history

Y'all pivot like ice skaters.

Support Hillary because she's electable!!!
She's not? Bernie beats the Republicans worse?
Okay then, support Hillary because purity! Men hate her! That's how awesome she is!!!