You're putting the cart before the horse.

Whole lot of meta going on

Americans will not elect a Socialist. Won't happen

And yes, I believe he has a much better shot in the GE than Hillary

America was disappointed to find out it wasn't true.

People of all pedigrees say silly things. Let them pontificate all they want. It's up to us to prove them wrong at the ballots.

He would make us all bow down to the Pope. Nothing new under the sun.

They said they would never elect a catholic,funny how that goes huh?

This now, is an original post. Lighten up.

Give it a look.

We can tell who the Republicans want to run against based on their relentless attacks on one of the Democratic candidates.

They have been wanting to run against her since 2006 at least. There were even books written by Republicans talking about the upcoming race against Hillary. The best thing we could do is to surprise them with a candidate they haven't spent decades preparing to race against.

One of the many reasons you see so damned many republicans running right now and staying in the race well after their expiration dates have lapsed is that all of them think they have a really good shot if they can get nominated. They are absolutely desperate, which is why they are running so wildly to the right in order to secure the crazy republican vote that shows up for primaries.

Bernie Sanders talks in a way that they do not have an answer for. He speaks like a real progressive with absolute specifics and simple, to the point answers. He doesn't apologize for his political views and doesn't hedge, use weasel language, or the standard sound of political nonsense.

He has the potential to be a transitional political figure that moves the population and the mindset of the electorate and the country at large. Hillary, at best will maintain the status quo in almost every respect both in terms of actual policy and in terms of the mindstate and spirit of the times.

I am a Bernie supporter, but Americans do need to be blitzed with good info about democratic socialism to counter the caca spewed from the right.

Really scary people. Beware. lol. Or really scary like a senator who voted for the Iraq Liberation Act. Has repeatedly voted to arm foreign armies. The list goes on. We simply don't have a dove running on our side. You will have to vote for a different party if a dove is what you are looking for.

And I will take Bernie any day over a corporate wallstreet loving warhawk like Hillary.

True that.

who are already fighting in a war derp de derp de dooooooo...

XD

Because Bernie was against the war does not mean that he thinks we should abandon the troops that have to fight it.


Dear gods, do you people ever get tired of trying to contort and twist yourselves into pretzels to try to go after the anti-war crowd?

Are you going to mock us all for "wanting ponies" next?

Which means even IF some how she pulls off the GE she'll be a "Lame Duck" President sitting in a quagmire of TEAFARTY controlled House and Senate

That is of course unless her self defined position of a "Progressive that likes to get things done" doesn't cause her to lean so far to the RIGHT she becomes unrecognizable as a Dem

And is not leaving out future generations and is not going to tax in large percentages.

Bernie wants to raise the cap on Social Security and the Hillary campaign called it "raising taxes on the middle class" claiming over $100k a year is "middle class". They tried to include cops and firefighters in their figures but their salaries aren't that high.

In fact it is raising FICA taxes on those who earns $250,000 just like Hillary said from the start. She did not want those from the max cap to $250,000 having their taxes raised. Bernie thinks the same now. What do you think about this proposal now that Sanders is saying the same?

Hillary Clinton Hesitates On Expanding Social Security

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-balks-social-security_561dc504e4b050c6c4a35fbe

Those earning over $250,000.

They were originally calling it the largest tax hike on the middle class in history at one point.

BTW: That figure of a quarter million bucks a year has been floated for a LONG time. Hillary isn't the originator. She is stealing ideas from the Sanders platform, NOT the other way around. I normally wouldn't have a problem with stealing ideas but these are things she was against which makes it look like she is pandering but once in power she has ZERO intention of enacting any of these proposals.

Is for raising FICA on the over $250,000 like Hillary, so Sanders talking point is wrong also. Actually Sanders has joined Hillary on her proposal, this is a good thing, glad to see he is agreeing with Hillary.

No she did not want to do away with the max cap, she proposed to raise the FICA on those earning $250,000 and above. Sanders is one who wanted to drop the max cap, now he has changed.

You know that Bernie has an "F" rating from the NRA.

Right?

Right?

about gun issues after Hillary and MOM was talking about gun issues. There are other times he has voted with the republicans also. Do a search on the Brady Bill votes and liability immunity to gun manufactures.

I suppose next you will claim he's in the pocket of Wall Street.

which played into the financial crisis of 2008. Another vote with the republicans.

So it's okay to take their money as a big fat thanx for the help after 9/11.

Sanders has been talking for literally years about removing the caps on that tax so that millionaires pay the same into social security that people making 113K a year. Seriously, are you really a democrat or not?

Are you a walking avatar for the Third Way or something?

Revenue needs to be raised and I trust the candidate that stands up to the 1% and Wallstreet a hell of a lot more than I do the candidate that has cashed their checks for the last decade or so.

This anti-tax nonsense is the same kind of Reganesque nonsense that got us into a lot of our problems in the first place. Are you sure you are posting on the right website?

Pretty hard for me to put the Dem label on her

it's a point worth considering.

The GOP knows HRC puts the youth vote up for grabs

That statistic alone, should disqualify her from running.

You can't win an election when the Republicans hate every fiber of your being; only 6 percent of Independents would vote for you; and half of the Democratic party thinks that you're a neocon-warmongering corporate shill who has been purchased by the defense industry, Wall Street and any powerful interest that writes you a check.

With regards to the primaries, she is most likely to win.

With regards to the general, she is still most likely to win. Yes, the rabid Republicans hate her passionately. So do some on the left. But many people respect her abilities and competence, even if they don't get the warm fuzzies when they see her. Given her demographic edge (the demographic edge that favors any Democratic candidate in the presidential race), her competence which has already won over many people that did not use to like her, and the nut jobs on the GOP side, and I would say her chances are pretty good.

But that does not mean that she cannot win. Or that we have to "beware" of those who believe in her and her ability to win.

And there's also the tiny issue that Bernie has not yet faced ANY attacks by them. If he's the nominee, they WILL pull out the big guns against him. The term "socialist" will be twisted and turned in ways that will make him seem like Stalin, and by the end of it all, he will probably poll at about the same rate as Hillary against the GOP candidates.

with Hillary we get corporate wallstreet loving warhawk with a few little social policy treats tossed out to appease the Dems.

I would rather we had the real deal.

Bernie is a fine man with wonderful qualities. If he becomes the Democratic nominee, I will support him with my whole heart.

But basing one's vote on the idea that one or another of the Dem candidates "can't win" makes no sense. All three of them can win, but none of them would be a shoe-in. It will take hard work and commitment. For now, our task is to identify a candidate to nominate, based on who we believe would make the best president. Once that is done our job is to fight tooth and nail for the Democratic nominee, because ANY of them would make a better president than ANY of the GOP candidates.

It's as simple as that.

Remember the Slick Willy moniker? Slick Hilly may well be apropos here. After all, how DO you chastise Wall St. with a hardy "Cut it out." and then get them to write you generous checks??? If she can mesmerize that bunch of bandits, imagine the wool-pulling prospects she wields against simple citizens!

Of course.... it could be that she's holding those checks until she's in the White House. Then she'll cash 'em and spread the booty amongst those she wants to keep under twelve bucks an hour. Who could not find favor with that?

has nothing to do with the issue of whether she can win or not.

" After all, how DO you chastise Wall St. with a hardy "Cut it out." and then get them to write you generous checks???" See, my point was that America can do better than a inept sleight-of-hand artist. She'll work for all of us - provided we can write big enough checks.

how your expressions of your personal dislike of Hillary has anything to do with this topic, or how it is a response to my point about her electability.

The 'demographic edge that favors any Democratic candidate' means we might as well do something unimaginable like give the Liberal Base what it wants for a change.

Then again, I guess we could lock out all of the Liberals and turn the militarized police loose on them like in 68:

http://www.history.com/topics/1960s/videos/violence-batters-1968-democratic-convention#

That was sure a winning strategy.

People will vote for whom they like. Why should some Democrats vote to give other Dems (the "Liberal base," whoever that is) what they want? Vote for whom you prefer. Let others do the same. Let the chips fall where they may. End of story.

If the liberal base is the majority, then I see no problem. Vote for whom you prefer, and being the majority, you will win.

Your argument seems to be that the Liberal Majority is unable/unwilling to vote in the person they would prefer, so other more moderate Dems should vote in their place instead, and vote for the candidate that the "Liberal Majority" would prefer and not the one they themselves prefer.

That is a very, very strange argument.

I'm a liberal-progressive too, by the way.

From the DNC's part, Hillary is the clear favorite. Given Bernie's history of NOT being a Democrat, that's just to be expected. That does not mean that Bernie's supporters are being treated like the enemy. If anything, the Bernie supporters here on DU, where they are the majority, often treat Hillary supporters as if they are not real Dems, and attack Hillary relentlessly with Republican-style smears. I say this as someone who does NOT have a horse in the primary race, since my state's primary is late April, when it will no longer make a difference.

In any case, if the Bernie supporters are the majority, as you claim, then I don't see the problem. Then he will win. End of story.

For some "Democrat" = The Clintons.

Period.

Although most if not all of us that actually detest her will still hold our noses and vote for the lesser of the two evils, and I do mean evils, I seriously doubt she can win the general.... She has way way too much baggage that will be shouted from the rooftops ad nauseam for the entire season next year which will do exactly as they rethugs want and draw all of the attention away from any reasonable dialogue about what really needs to be addressed.Rather she and all the rest of the dems will spend the entire time and a lot of the available advertising budget trying to debunk the lies and half truths that will be out there. then add in the down ballot losses that are going to occur and it will be a total rout...

Bye bye sanity,hello dark ages

Republicans hate Democrats.....so your point about republicans voting against Hillary can also swing in the Bernie camp too. Bernie is really going to have republicans hate him.... his agenda is very anti-republican...free education, single payer, tax increases for wealthy...I am not saying Hillary will win the nomination, but my point is don't think if she doesn't, suddenly there is going to be all these repubs jumping across party lines to vote in Sanders

Each and everyone of them agrees with Bernie and hates Hillary. These are all Seniors with whom I am speaking -- Republican Seniors and most of them worshiped Ronnie Raygun. They hate Hillary and love Bernie. They love the education stance because many of them are helping their grandchildren with college expenses, they love Medicare that think everyone should have it, they are not wealthy and hope the 1% are taxed and taxed and taxed. It's not that in the future they will jump party lines -- they already have done this for Bernie. Of all of the Bernie bumper stickers I have seen in my area, only one was on the car of a young man. All other Bernie bumper stickers, including mine, are one the back end of a small SUV or wagon driven by someone clearly in his/her 60s or older.

I don't believe that you should count on ANY Republicans voting for Bernie in the GE, whatever they may say to you now. It won't only be 24/7/365 "Socialist" slur and scare tactics that Bernie will face, they'll also start picking on his wife and family in ways they have on Hillary, Bill, and Chelsea at least since 1992. Are Bernie and his family really ready for that?

I don't think they are. Bernie and his family have never experienced the full-on Lee-Atwater-mentored-Karl-Rove-continued smear tactics and outright lies that any Democratic candidate in the general election will have to face.

Most GOPers HATE Hillary with a passion - and always have. That is principally because she is an intelligent, talented, accomplished "uppity" woman with more practical experience in what it takes to govern than any one of their candidates (or all collectively) could EVER hope to have in a million years.

And that's the truth.

She may be intelligent and talented, but she is also a proven liar. Hint: Under fire. That cannot be said of Bernie. And, we have discussed the socialist issue and most say, "So was FDR." Not one problem with that label, however a lot of issues with Hillary and the fact that to many she and the truth parted ways long ago.

I am an uppity female Hillary's age and I would have to hold my nose to vote for her. She is corporation owned, cannot be trusted and in it only for herself.

JMHO

GOPer memes here.

Are you a lifelong Democrat as I am? You may want to take a good look at yourself before you carry any more GOPer water for them against any Dem candidate.

sorry but I don't know how many you know, but the repubs I know, working and a mostly conservative large east coast hospital...hate his high spending (sic) rhetoric.....so we agree to disagree

not one bit of support for HRC!

I rather like the idea of taxing the 1% and freeing up the middle class.

It does not matter the vigor with which votes are cast as long as they are cast.

I know you understand this: Sanders must win the nomination to run against the GOP candidate.

The down ticket races will be devastating in the GE if HRC is the nominee.

HRC is not a risk we can afford.

whoever it is, is no progressive or Democratic against THIS list of republican candidates

The problem with an HRC nomination, IMO, is that the Repubbies hate her and she has little Independent cross-over pull. A lot of us will go to the polls and hold our noses and fight the nausea and vote for Hillary if she is unfortunately nominated. Repubbies and independents will not do that. HRC cannot win with only Dem support.

part in the OP that included Democrats and progressives in that list that wouldn't vote

If anyone really believes that Clinton can not win, then open an Irish brokerage account and put your money where your mouth is. You will get great odds http://predictwise.com/politics/2016-president-winner/

There are legitimate reasons to make Clinton something other than 1st choice. This isn't one of them.

I will vote for her, but as others have said she is so intensely despised by so many who will turn out to vote simply to stop her from becoming President. Many of their reasons for despising her are based on falsehoods and lies, but she is also- for lack of a better phrase- not a likable person. It's just so obvious that Hillary is in it for Hillary.

Told to me by a progressive Democrat everyone here respects.

come November 2016. But I fear it will be.

But the lack of enthusiasm for her candidacy means that the republicans will hold both houses throughout her presidency.

She hopes that issue is in itself, big enough and important enough to get many voters to turn out. It has merit and she benefits from being the first to utilize it.

Ridiculousness. Pure ridiculousness, and playing right into "conservative" propaganda. feh.

They are a lost cause. Get it? There is no working with them unless and until they moderate, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

And no, it isn't our fault. It's their fault 100%. They are fascists in every conceivable way, except they haven't gotten around to burning the Reichstag yet.

The only path is straight over them.

telling you that King Bernie can win more than VT and NH - if that.

Despite his being older than Hillary older voters have already surged to Hillary! Middle aged voters are smart and do not trust him as commander in chief. He’s only winning younger online cell phone-toting voters because he promises everything to them and holds none accountable.

Bottom line – a resounding Hillary victory!!!

to condition society into accepting the intolerable. It is coming from every angle including the republicans and corporate media.

If Sanders is such a guarantee to win the general election, why is he not doing higher in the polls? Democrats will decide their nominee, and so far, they seem to prefer Hillary.

Good luck with that, bro.

I beware of any poster who trumpets any prophecy as an absolute, regardless of whether that absolute is she will win, or that she won't.