2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Lawsuit has been filed!!
Lawsuit has been filed!!
Here's the text :
http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001
mmonk
(52,589 posts)not celebrating. I'm just sad.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)mmonk
(52,589 posts)Everything has not been revealed. Our opposition party is batshit crazy.
MADem
(135,425 posts)25 specific searches on voter turnout and other keywords and THEN some. Material DOWNLOADED.
It is looking bad for the Sanders campaign. I don't blame Sanders, himself, but he has some skeevy people on his staff.
Who are the other three? I would like to know.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)If you were trying to steal information, why would you report your own hack?
However, if you were trying to document the breach, you would do just what the data security analysts at the company I work for do - you get the goods and report it to the proper authorities.
This happened in 40s minutes. Most breaches go on for months before they're discovered.
However, I am happy to see that Clinton fans are now interested in data security. Can you tell me how secure Clinton's private server was?
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)The DNC is full of crap on this one...showing some true colors I'm afraid.
MADem
(135,425 posts)And wouldn't you 'report' if you realized your footprints were all over the crime scene?
This did not happen in a half hour, or your forty minutes, apparently--it happened over four hours and there were four people in there, keyword searching and downloading.
This is sounding worse for the Sanders campaign--not better.
But time will tell.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)and to document proof of damages in order to file the lawsuit.
By the way, the DNC itself said Sanders' campaign had reported.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The Sanders campaign certainly did report...but did they mention they had four people in there for four hours and did dozens of keyword searches as well as downloaded material?
The concern, too, is that the database was altered, as well. This is just not a small thing. It's a problem.
George II
(67,782 posts)....of being exposed anyway?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Um, George, anyone with actual knowledge of how breaches work knows that there are forensic footprints and you don't need a timing lookout. It's either there or it's not.
The fired data director said - much earlier today - that he knew the vendor would know they were there. Hell, anyone studying for their CISSP exam could determine that.
"...on the verge..."
Dude, it really isn't like, "Lookout, guys! The DNC is coming! Get out of there."
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'll bet there was even a digital readout playing over the staffer's face as dramatic music played!
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Summaries of data logs provided to the AP show the Sanders team spent nearly an hour in the database reviewing information on Clinton's high-priority voters and other data from nearly a dozen states, including first-to-vote Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina.
Some of these voter lists were saved into a folder named "Targets," according to the logs. Uretsky's deputy appeared to focus on pulling data on South Carolina and Iowa voters based on turnout and support or lack of support for Clinton.
http://news.yahoo.com/dnc-barring-sanders-team-accessing-data-breach-143911771.html#
After one Sanders account gained access to the Clinton data, the audits show, that user began sharing permissions with other Sanders users. The staffers who secured access to the Clinton data included Uretsky and his deputy, Russell Drapkin. The two other usernames that viewed Clinton information were talani" and "csmith_bernie," created by Uretsky's account after the breach began.
The logs show that the Vermont senators team created at least 24 lists during the 40-minute breach, which started at 10:40 a.m., and saved those lists to their personal folders. The Sanders searches included New Hampshire lists related to likely voters, "HFA Turnout 60-100" and "HFA Support 50-100," that were conducted and saved by Uretsky. Drapkin's account searched for and saved lists including less likely Clinton voters, "HFA Support <30" in Iowa, and "HFA Turnout 30-70"' in New Hampshire.
Despite audit logs, Weaver said at the news conference that NGP VAN has told the campaign that no Clinton data was printed or downloaded.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-12-18/sanders-campaign-fires-data-director-after-breach-of-clinton-files
First, while NGP VAN and, by extension, the DNC, are ultimately responsible for the fact that the firewall was dropped for a brief window between 30 and 40 minutes attempts to shift blame on these organizations, as the Sanders campaign and his supporters have done, is misdirection. NGP VAN is the DNCs vendor for data management, which means that practically every Democratic campaign in the country uses it. The DNC isnt about to fire NGP VAN, nor could they. Theyre basically the only game in town. That aside, the Clinton and OMalley campaigns also had the opportunity to access each others data during the breach, and the audit has not suggested that either of them did. It seems clear now that Sanderss data team really did do wrong here, violating a critical campaign norm (to say nothing of NGP VANs terms of use) by downloading data they knew they shouldnt have access to.....
Second, its worth noting here just how sensitive the DNC is when it comes to data, and how seriously it takes potential security breaches. Access to VAN accounts with more than bare minimum levels of access is closely guarded, and every user action is tracked. Field organizers are told to be wary of creating volunteer VAN access for people they dont know very well, as one spy from another campaign with too many permissions could wreak all kinds of havoc on a campaigns field operation. In other words, the reason the DNC was able to search for and identify the users who had improperly accessed data, and what data they had improperly accessed, in a matter of hours is because the DNC doesnt mess around when it comes to managing its data.
Third, its also worth noting just how big of an offense it is to use another campaigns modeling data for your own benefit. As Jeremy Bird, President Obamas 2012 Field Director, pointed out today, millions of dollars worth of research goes into the turnout and support models that the Sanders campaign appears to have used to build lists of Clinton voters in early primary states. Just because your neighbor leaves their door open doesnt mean its okay for you to walk in their house and take their TV. Thats basically what happened here.
Fourth, while I was initially skeptical that the DNCs punishment fit the Sanders campaigns crime (and I wasnt the only one) Im fine with it now. Given the fact that the Sanders campaigns story hasnt held up one low-level staffer running an issue up the flagpole quickly became one high-level staffer downloading things he definitely shouldnt have downloaded and granting others access to do the same its perfectly reasonable for the DNC to shut off access to the database until they have assurances that the issue has been completely resolved.
At a press conference just now, the Sanders campaign unloaded on the DNC, threatening to sue them in federal court if their VAN access isnt restored. Based on what we know so far, they dont have a leg to stand on. If they want their access restored in order for them to have a functional operation any time in the near future, they need to take their lumps and cooperate on this one.
According to a blog post written by Trevelyan, shortly after the breach was fixed, the company audited its system and determined that only the Sanders campaign, and no other outside parties, could have possibly retained any of the exposed data. On Thursday, the DNC requested that NGP VAN suspend the Sanders campaigns access to its records. We will continue to work with and report to the DNC regarding this issue to ensure that this isolated incident does not recur, Trevelyan wrote. We have and will do better.http://www.wired.com/2015/12/sanders-clinton-data/
They searched for voter lists, they ran keyword searches, they SAVED them in their PERSONAL folders. They cheated.
They're going to see the inside of a courtroom for this, those four hackers, and the higher ups had better hope they were acting on their own and that those two mystery user names weren't very senior people. The Sanders campaign has committed a serious ethical breach. No wonder Sanders looks like hell lately. I don't think any of this "Anything to Win" shit is his idea.
This is NOT a happy man:
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)And we just won.
So... bye!
MADem
(135,425 posts)thinks. The company is fine--the people who will wind up charged with crimes are four people who were employed by the Sanders campaign, three of whom will probably be fired in short order (if they can figure out who those two are with the "screen name" identifiers).
I imagine if the fired National Data Director doesn't cough up those names, it will be difficult for him in court.
I'm going to lean towards the computer crimes guy's assessment, rather than yours. I think most people reading the material I offered you would come to the very same conclusion.
Not surprised you suddenly feel like you have to run off so soon though--this is rather damning, isn't it?
silenttigersong
(957 posts)Now take your logic and apply that to Sec.Clintons FBI server _issue
angrychair
(8,733 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 18, 2015, 08:28 PM - Edit history (1)
As an IT professional with 20 years of experience I do not see anything dubious or wrong here. Could it have been handled differently? Yes.
This guy Uretsky was an IT professional who knew a lot about this database. He created the accounts for the database as himself. He was not trying to hide his fingerprints or avoid detection. Uretsky was a SME on this database and he knew he was creating an electronic trail and was not trying to hide what he was doing.
This is not some nefarious black hat trying to steal data. Sometimes it really is no more complicated than what the people involved say it is.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Why would they download ANYTHING?
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)The founder of vendor NGP VAN is Nathaniel Pearlman, who was chief technology officer for Hillary Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign. Pearlman supervised Bryan Pagliano as the 2008 Clinton campaign IT director
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/clinton/clintonorg.html
Pagliano went on to set up and manage Clintons private email server.
Pagliano pleaded the 5th when Hillary's emails and his role came under scrutiny.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Bernie Sanders knew Hugo Chavez and did business with him. Does that mean he approved of everything he did, or more to the point, he's somewhat responsible for Venezuela's economic collapse? I don't think that for a minute.
I'll bet the universe of people who are known to politicians and staff, and supply these particular services on a regular basis, is not infinite. I also would not be surprised if this firm was hired before Clinton was harassed by the GOP Congress about her email.
But that's not the topic of the day, is it? The topic is this Campaign(s)-Vendors-DNC issue.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)They came forward and told the DNC of the problem.
That is the action of an honest person.
Nothing nefarious here.
Calling the media.
That's calculating.
MADem
(135,425 posts)apparently.
They told the DNC because they knew that their footprints were all over the data.
If nothing was nefarious, why the uproar?
Turn on ABC, they are covering it now. This isn't going the way you may have hoped.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)D E F G, H I J K elloomennoopp!!
Wait,, where's my remote.. Oh shit, I can;t find it.. What the hell will I do without.. fucking A B C ??? I needs to know sumthin''''
Ah fuck it,, back to my jambolaya.. which I can not spell..
gotta go ask ABC how to spell it...
MADem
(135,425 posts)66. Turn on ABEC!! WOW !! YIKERS>>> A B C !!!
View profile
D E F G, H I J K elloomennoopp!!
Wait,, where's my remote.. Oh shit, I can;t find it.. What the hell will I do without.. fucking A B C ??? I needs to know sumthin''''
Ah fuck it,, back to my jambolaya.. which I can not spell..
gotta go ask ABC how to spell it...
Thanks for making your level of discourse on this issue so very plain at the outset, it saves me from wasting much time. ABC led with the story--you can probably find it online later this evening.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Samantha
(9,314 posts)Most of these networks do not want to see Sanders' elected because he is against the TPP and they are for it. Naturally, they support, as far as the Dems go, Clinton. O'Malley also is against the TPP so he gets snubbed for coverage, along with Bernie.
The legal document alleges that "The Campaign" has information and belief that its data was also compromised. I am reporting this so that DU'ers can let us know if any network reports that!
Significantly, the Agreement is attached to the original legal document as an Exhibit. If the DNC wanted to deny access to the database, it was required to give the campaign to be denied access TEN DAYS NOTICE. Obviously, that did not happen.
"The Campaign" asked for $70,000 in damages now but a larger amount to be determined at trial to compensate for the losses it will endure.
However, as I have been saying on many threads here tonight, the damage to Bernie Sanders' campaign by this action may cause irreparable harm. How will his staff continue to contact voters and solicit donors to finance the campaign?
This is devastating to Bernie's chances in Iowa and New Hampshire. I do not believe that the DNC or the Clinton campaign will consider any sum too much to pay if it means Sanders experiences a loss in Iowa and New Hampshire. As previously discussed here at DU in many threads, that would probably mean the end of Sanders' campaign.
And that is why this situation must be remedied immediately.
Sam
MADem
(135,425 posts)Information and belief is a fancy legal term for "I think." I can have "information and belief" that someone sneered at me rudely--it doesn't mean it actually happened. Further, the best defense when you're caught red handed is 'attack.' That's pretty basic.
They haven't "denied" him access--they've suspended him. That is a very clear distinction, and a difference. There has been wrongdoing and it needs to be clarified, addressed, and corrected. It wouldn't surprise me if the other candidates remove their shit from that database 'toute suite' and operate outside the DNC bubble, only inputting after the primaries are done. I wouldn't want my stuff in that pile.
In future, that might be the way to go. Give everyone a standard format to use (and they could probably modify some decent existing software, not re-invent the wheel) and have them toss it in the pot AFTERWARDS.
I will say, were the shoe on the other foot, and Clinton's National Data Director and three others were caught rummaging around in their database, running keyword searches, copying material, and downloading information, this board would be On Fi-yah. I don't think there'd be any reasonable tones at all.
FWIW, Clinton is opposed to the TPP as well, so that dog ain't hunting.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)Upon information means I have information -- and that is usually attached or there is some other type of evidence. If its information someone has confided, for instance, there is usually a sworn affidavit attached.
He cannot access the database; therefore, the database is not available. He needed 10 days' notice. Pure and simple. She did not give him 10 days notice she would deny him access.
He asserts in his pleading his data has been compromised as well.
Clinton gave numerous speeches supporting the TPP until she started her campaign. Now she says when asked if she supports it, she needs to read the final version before she decides. She knows many Dems are against it so she opts to equivocate.
Sam
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's a fancy way of saying "I think...."
I provided you a link re: Clinton and the TPP. She opposes it. She held her fire while she was employed by the Executive Branch, and she did her boss's bidding--as she should have. I'm sure she called him and let him know she was going to break with him on that issue before she went public, too. It's the polite thing to do.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)Bernie was being a good player. The actions of an honest person.
This will turn around and bite the DNC in the ass.
ABC? I trust them as much as I trust the DNC with my personal information on their server.
Incompetence will be the focus very soon.
MADem
(135,425 posts)We'll know soon enough what they actually reported and what they didn't.
They didn't mention that they did dozens of keyword searches and downloaded Clinton data, did they?
This will do some biting, but i don't think that it will bite the DNC.
ABC was simply reporting on what all parties had to say (vendor, campaigns, DNC) about this matter--no need to denigrate them on this score. Save that for when they deserve it.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)211,000 + have signed Move On's petition to give Sanders his info back.
DFA has one up, too, but I can't tell the sig count on it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I don't think he'll get his info back until everyone takes theirs out of that database. His staff is untrustworthy.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...to which I reply, you might want to rethink that question.
One could ask the same question about Benghazi. Or about Hillary's private email server. Or...
Just pointing out, that is not a strong argument by you.
MADem
(135,425 posts)the present one is fraught with difficulty.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...merely provided two examples showing the weakness of your argument. If the question "Why the uproar, then, if nothing nefarious is going on?" applies to Sanders in this case, then it would apply equally well to Clinton in the cases I cited. I doubt you think it applies there, though. I don't either. Nor do I think it applies to this case.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Clinton--as failed attempts to pull her down. The SECDEF has just admitted to doing the same thing she did with emails, and no one is frog-marching him--and he did it AFTER the executive branch rules (which did NOT apply to Clinton) were changed.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...that saying, essentially, "where there's smoke, there's fire" is often not borne out by the facts of the case.
You attempted to make that argument in today's case, by asking: If there is nothing nefarious, then why the uproar? -- I showed why that is not a good argument, by citing two examples that apply to Clinton. Your argument here reinforces mine. QED
TTFN
MADem
(135,425 posts)tell him to take it to a state court. Or that he doesn't have a gripe, given that his people are seen to have committed theft, in essence, and now they're looking for more access to the home they previously burgled.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)wheeeeeee!
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)or the Democrats.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)does. they don't sit on their asses and moan. they take it to the bastards. Watch this closely as it goes. This is what real dems do.
Response to roguevalley (Reply #24)
Mika This message was self-deleted by its author.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Anybody looking at this and thinking it makes Sanders look good is in a level of denial so deep they'd need an army of pick axess to find you.
We'll all be watching. You can bet on that, honey.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)honey...
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)The more shaking you do (and I have a feeling it's going to be ALOT of shaking) the better!
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)DWS and company violated the contract they signed with the Sanders campaign.
You just keep watching. Thus far, the only ones who look bad in this are DWS, NGP VAN, and the lone staffer who apparently accessed the opposition's data multiple times. And, of those, DWS is the most nefarious.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)The fall guy is Debbie, as it should be.
MADem
(135,425 posts)One is a temporary condition owing to breaches by his staff, the other is a permanent situation.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)because Bernie told them. This is not going to be the way you think. but enjoy your own denial. And for your information, I am old, old enough to see bullshit when I see it. Have a nice day.
it's amazing how the bullshit detector gets refined through time, especially when the same ol' bullshit keeps coming 'round again and again.
Number23
(24,544 posts)First you "self describe" as an old lady and now you're self describing as a "Hillarian?" Has the controversy over all of this got you a bit confused??
Don't worry. I think it will all be over soon.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's blowing up in their faces all right--but the faces of the four hackers--who could be exposed to legal jeopardy.
http://news.yahoo.com/dnc-barring-sanders-team-accessing-data-breach-143911771.html#
The Sanders campaign employees who accessed the Clinton voter information without authorization appear to have run afoul of the federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, said Jason Weinstein, a former supervisor of the Justice Department's computer crimes section.
Those employees "have reason to be concerned about legal exposure," he said, for what appears to fit the definition of illegal hacking.
don't you go calling us ol' ladies "honey." It's "ma'am" to you.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)I've been waiting too many years to count to see an educated representative stand up and speak the truth. I'm totally excited about what's unfolding.
Bernie gave notice of a problem, and it appears the DNC is the one who breached, but we'll see. It saddens me too, but we can be smart, and grow.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)The high road is for suckers.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)I was playing monopoly with a white haired man in my grandma's house when I was about ... older than I thought I was thinking back ... I can't remember his name ... I think it was White. I remember him getting a call to leave and he did. It was the White House asking him to return, him, the greatest expert on the USSR to advise Kennedy on the Cuban Missile Crisis. We were always dems going back to forever but we have a few stories. You live long enough, you see a lot. Take care, my dear Hepburn. Merry Christmas.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)I remember HH well. My husband's family -- friends of Adlai Stevenson and Eleanor R.
I have frankly have seen much to much of the Third Way Dems...miss the real ones!
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)my mom and I worshiped Eleanor. So did my dad and the fam. I agree with you. I wonder how many remember what a good man Adlai was and all of the rest? I would be sick if my first presidential memory was Ronald Reagan.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)I was in grade school and I walked my fist Scottie dog to Dem headquarters -- I had to have a dog like Fala.
redwitch
(14,946 posts)I wish Al Gore had been as determined in 2000 when the RNC and then Supremes gave Florida to Bush.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)haikugal
(6,476 posts)Nothing new here except we're (liberals) saying ENOUGH!
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)go, truer words were never spoken
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)I am tired of the establishment in the Dem party. I am a liberal, a way left liberal...and have always been one. I am sick and tired of the corporate, MIC, hawk, Bullcrap.
JMHO
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)And, how many of those third wayers are in an income bracket that enables them to self-identify as members of the "top tier"? I have news for them. There are less than four hundred people world-wide who qualify for the top 1% of the top 1%--and they view EVERYONE beneath them with a heavy dose of disdain.
I hope everyone reads this lawsuit, and understands that DWS and the DNC are in breach of contract. They should immediately release the Sanders campaign's data, and resolve this issue within the legal constraints of the contract.
DWS strikes me as rather dense, since she took this action in violation of her own contract. Sad, really, the lengths to which she will apparently go to get HRC the nomination.
OLDMADAM
(82 posts)Imagine, Clinton complaining about someone hacking into her fundraising site.. I wish she was as outraged over her placing our Country in harms way with her secret email server, passing State Secrets over the airwaves.. Oh my, has she no shame?
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Wild.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)In the 2004 election........ this is what kerry should have done
immediately. ....... on so many issues.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)pocoloco
(3,180 posts)Left so fast the door didn't have a chance
to hit him in the ass.
MADem
(135,425 posts)"That is the only way that we can make sure that we can protect our significant asset that is the voter file and its integrity," Wasserman Schultz said on CNN.
She said "multiple staffers" from the Sanders campaign downloaded information that they did not have the right to collect.
"They not only viewed it, but they exported it and they downloaded it," Wasserman Schultz told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "We don't know the depth of what they actually viewed and downloaded. We have to make sure that they did not manipulate the information."
She added, "That is just like if you walked into someone's home when the door was unlocked and took things that don't belong to you in order to use them for your own benefit. That's inappropriate. Unacceptable."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/
IF (and I am using the conditional, here) it is determined that they did violate an agreement as to the use of the data that they, themselves, agreed to abide by, then they're the ones who have placed themselves in jeopardy.
I don't understand why they aren't releasing the names of the others who were in the system. It makes me believe that they are more important to the campaign, not low level staffers.
Time will tell, I suppose.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)is not my time..............
MADem
(135,425 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)On Wednesday morning, there was a release of VAN code. Unfortunately, it contained a bug. For a brief window, the voter data that is always searchable across campaigns in VoteBuilder included client scores it should not have, on a specific part of the VAN system. So for voters that a user already had access to, that user was able to search by and view (but not export or save or act on) some attributes that came from another campaign.
MADem
(135,425 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)Guess he needed some of Hillarys wipes...
MADem
(135,425 posts)camp--four somones, in fact--downloaded material and ran keyword searches on Clinton data over a four hour period.
It's not really a question of KNOWING data could be exported or saved--it's that if you come across something that isn't yours, you're not supposed to DO that. Maybe they thought "Hillary;s 2008 tech guy" (your term) was too stupid to be able to tell if someone did this, and to their dismay, they found out otherwise.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Because DWS has proven she is a partisan for Hillary.
Let's get a true investigation by impartial data analysts. Anonymous perhaps?
MADem
(135,425 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)DNClinton and their Cronyforce software immediately!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)To prove it...
And I find it hilarious that YOU think its Clinton who is in trouble.....
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)until somebody from the Sanders' campaign fell into the trap they had set.
Clinton doesn't need a security breach to get Sanders' data. Both the vendor and the customer work for her.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)But downloading that data....THAT clearly is...
If I leave my door open....even intentionally.....and a criminal comes in....and steals my TV.....who committed this crime?
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)That's the real crime here. Both the vendor and customer (the DNC) work for Clinton.
cprise
(8,445 posts)And I'll remind you there is no sign of any concealment; Instead, there is a pattern of reporting vulnerabilities.
What stands out here is that DNC dragged their feet for months until they had a tidbit they could RUN NOT WALK to the press with.
Volaris
(10,274 posts)To demonstrate to the DNC (after repeated complaints mind you) how lazy their contracted vendor was being.
If it was done without the approval or consent of the campaign senior staff, then sure, fire the relevant persons.
But like the above poster said, collecting evidence of a crime isn't a crime...
cprise
(8,445 posts)The Clintonistas trying to use this against the Sanders campaign are facing a big credibility gap if they don't back off. This is a technology issue, and the tech press will not pretend their standards have vanished in order to satisfy DC groupthink.
Volaris
(10,274 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)This is not looking good for Team Sanders. I suppose the only thing they can do is bluster--they were caught stealing.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)That is not a crime. It's self-defense.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Oh kay....
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I don't think this will go well for Bernie when all the facts are laid out before an impartial jury or judge.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)to talk bullshit and what is really happening with this story
Internet rules.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)Can't be said enough times.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)The conduct of the respondent was outside of the agreement of the parties. That, IMO, is the crux of the matter.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)The Agreement requires the DNC to use security measures, with respect to the
Campaign Data, that are consistent with good practices in the data processing industry.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)cutting Bernie off. And that action is and was outside of the scope of the agreement. That is in essence the grounds for injunctive relief as prayed by Team Sanders.
The DNC went off the grid with what they did.
JMHO
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)And it keeps getting better:
27) The DNC did not send the Campaign any written notice of termination, much less
afford the Campaign the contractually required ten-day period in which to cure any default.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)...what a shock...NOT!
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)as judges or lawyers and fought and won battles before the Supreme court and other injustices on either the state or local level
To me Bernie got some good lawyers.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)your intellect and rhetoric is staggering.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)And IMO the Petn is good because the conduct taken by the DNC is not part of the agreement. One agrees to certain benefits and burdens when entering a contract. The terms cannot be unilaterally changed by one party to the contract. That is, in essence, what the DNC did. The contract spelled out the remedy...the DNC went off the chart and did something else, to wit, they unilaterally changed the terms of the contract. IMO, clearly a breach and also fits the 4 elements needed for a federal injunction.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)BTW.................. I know this guy
Daniel Sheehan
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)The terms of an agreement govern conduct and remedies when such terms are stated. In the DNC-Sanders agreement, there is no term allowing for the sanctions taken by the DNC today. One cannot self-help one's self to something outside the agreement.
Daniel Sheehan...the Pentagon Papers!
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)I am pissed tonight and just got a hide
So I will post this.
elleng
(131,084 posts)I'm also a retired lawyer, and in the middle of reading the Petition took a detour so see what's happening.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)The minute I saw the sanctions for breach of the K and they were listed specifically...my thoughts were that the Petn for Injuctive Relief is most likely going to be granted.
I do some ghost writing for other attys and sit second chair in complex litigation...but I do not miss the everyday ins and outs of running a practice. Too much stress!
elleng
(131,084 posts)I suspect 'granted' too, but STILL haven't finished reading.
GREAT that you still have your fingers in. I never did run a practice, worked for a Fed agency, and then some contract work. I'm WAY out of it now, so enjoying this exercise.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Always in private practice. But my law partner and hubbie was an AUSA. He then went private practice crim defense.
Nice to meet you! And, yeah, I say granted in that that conduct exceeded the scope of the agreement. Seems to me to be pretty basic contract law.
elleng
(131,084 posts)and mostly Administrative law thereafter. GREAT you partnered like that. GOOD to meet you. About to post a 'sidebar,' for any interested DUers.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)elleng
(131,084 posts)40) The Agreement prevents Defendant from suspending or impairing its performance
under the Agreement, even if ostensibly necessary for the purpose of providing other Voter Data
services to other campaigns.
41) Defendant has wrongly suspended and impaired its performance of its Agreement
with Plaintiff to mitigate damage caused by its own breach of Voter Data Agreements entered
with other campaigns.
42) The Agreement does not permit the Defendant to suspend or terminate service to
Plaintiff in the absence of ten days written notice to Plaintiff, and Plaintiffs failure to cure any
breach or default within a period of ten days.
43) Defendant has wrongfully suspended the Plaintiffs Voter Data access without
providing the contractually required notice, without identifying any breach of the Agreement by
Plaintiff, and without affording Plaintiff any opportunity to rectify any alleged breach.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)IMO, it is clear to me that the action taken by the DNC are outside of the terms of the agreement. I am wondering if anyone in the DNC even thought of asking legal counsel about what the heck they were doing.
IMO, this is backfiring on the DNC and Hillary badly.
elleng
(131,084 posts)outside the terms.
NO idea whether dws and/or dnc asked anyone. Doesn't seem they did.
Wonder how quickly this will be heard. Time really IS of the essence!!!
Autumn
(45,120 posts)elleng
(131,084 posts)Complex as they are, the issues can be understood, and I think it's a good idea for DUers to understand.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)23) Upon information and belief, a similar security incident arose with the NGP VAN
software during the 2008 national presidential primaries, resulting in the unintentional
transmission of Confidential Information to the campaign of Democratic primary candidate
Hillary Clinton (the Prior Incident).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251913582#post100
100. anybody else catch this?
23) Upon information and belief, a similar security incident arose with the NGP VAN
software during the 2008 national presidential primaries, resulting in the unintentional
transmission of Confidential Information to the campaign of Democratic primary candidate
Hillary Clinton (the Prior Incident).
OK I wasn't buying the conspiracy theories others have been posting, but now I have my doubts that this was NOT orchestrated.
That's rather interesting from 2008
elleng
(131,084 posts)Same company, isn't it, still screwing up?
'OUR' DNC in no way represents or cares about the interests of We the People, but rather still interested in supporting hrc.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)if their Hillary is the nominee
elleng
(131,084 posts)circular firing squads abound in the history, shooting our/themselves in the foot.
And then we don't contest election fraud!
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)you..............LOL
this is a major case from the feedback I'm getting right now
from my friends that have argued before the Supreme court.
elleng
(131,084 posts)Gothmog
(145,530 posts)There is no federal jurisdiction in this case https://twitter.com/BillMcGev/status/677987404599263233
elleng
(131,084 posts)JURISDICTION AND VENUE
1) Jurisdiction of this Court over Plaintiffs claims is predicated on 28 U.S.C. §
1332. There is complete diversity of citizenship between Plaintiff and Defendant. Upon
information and belief, Plaintiff is sustaining irrrepable injury and financial losses as a result of
Defendants ongoing breach of the Parties Agreement Regarding Use of DNC National Voter
File Data (the Agreement) that are incapable of precise calculation, but exceed $600,000.00
per day
2) Venue is proper in this District because the Agreement applies the law of the
District of Columbia, Defendant is domiciled in this District, and Defendant maintains its
principal places of business in this District.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)But not the theft?
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Where do you think you are? People on DU are intelligent.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)Segami
(14,923 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)but no cause for redress.
However, the Clinton campaign may be able to obtain redress.
Anyone read it differently?
elleng
(131,084 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Page 23, Section 8.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)And if it hurt Clinton, wouldn't any redress have to come from the vendor?
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)I bet this isn't the first time Sander's campaign breach and stole data. I think they opened Pandora's box.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)The suit is about the terms of a contract. Even if there was wrongful conduct by the Sanders campaign -- which I do not believe there was -- the issue is what remedies are available under the contact for alleged wrongful conduct? If you read the contract you will see that the sanctions levied by the DNC were no part of the written contract. Thus...other conduct which you feel the Sanders campaign did is not relevant. It is the conduct of the DNC which appears to be a breach of the written agreement which is at issue. Either by the terms of the contract the DNC had a right to do this or they did not. A reading of the contractual agreement most assuredly supports the conclusion that the DNC had no right to take the action which they did.
Can we please stick to the issues?
Gothmog
(145,530 posts)This case will likely be sent back to state court due to a lack of federal jurisdiction. Normally, jurisdiction is the first thing that one pleads in a case like this https://twitter.com/BillMcGev/status/677987404599263233
Cleita
(75,480 posts)feeling that there was going to be a scandal involving the election and the Democrats.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)elmac
(4,642 posts)will guarantee a republican president in 2017. Its a shame, the DNC is, has committed political suicide.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Let alone the GE.
elmac
(4,642 posts)yes, it could very well hurt the GE
Duppers
(28,126 posts)elmac
(4,642 posts)who will need to think again.
Duppers
(28,126 posts)And will handle his office as President of the United States!
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)23) Upon information and belief, a similar security incident arose with the NGP VAN
software during the 2008 national presidential primaries, resulting in the unintentional
transmission of Confidential Information to the campaign of Democratic primary candidate
Hillary Clinton (the Prior Incident).
OK I wasn't buying the conspiracy theories others have been posting, but now I have my doubts that this was NOT orchestrated.
elmac
(4,642 posts)the primary winner will not gather enough support, enough voter turnout to win an election. Its the very thing the DNC has been trying to avoid by limited debates, well, at least thats what they want us to believe.
PFunk1
(185 posts)It's also gonna to affect the down-ticket races as well-and not in a good way.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)The underdog, all but dismissed by the main stream media, is wrongfully cut off from information from the DNC and takes them to court.
He wins and shines the light of truth onto the corrupt political machine that supports Hillary. He then goes on to win Iowa, New Hampshire and enough delegates to win the nomination. Establishment super delegates now have ample reason to leave Clinton and support Sanders.
He then carries this message to the General where he can beat any (R) who is backed by their political establishment (assuming the establishment (R)s get their way).
I am not saying that this will happen, only that it could. There is clearly a path now for lots of free media attention and a clear message for Bernie to take to the voters who are not yet committed.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Bernie is not one of them...but HRC and the Repukes are.
JMHO
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)I'm not sure what is being implied and what that actually means to this incident.
On it's face it just means that the vendor has a history of poor workmanship, and maybe implies that DNC by hiring this vendor didn't keep its side of the agreement by insuring the vendor met professional standards?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)From someone who isn't even a member of the party.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)dinkytron
(568 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)It would have been better for Bernie's campaign to work with the DNC and peacefully resolve this.
senz
(11,945 posts)you didn't notice the Watergate/Berniegate analogies being made last night? The Hillarians were practically writing his epitaph.
Anyway, I hope this uproar brings out the rest of our problems with DWS' DNC. Everyone needs to know.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Debbie made her fucking bed.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It gets worse for his campaign as time passes. This hot breathed offense is just not cutting it.
I would not be surprised if at least four staffers are charged with crimes.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Summaries of data logs provided to the AP show the Sanders team spent nearly an hour in the database reviewing information on Clinton's high-priority voters and other data from nearly a dozen states, including first-to-vote Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina.
Some of these voter lists were saved into a folder named "Targets," according to the logs. Uretsky's deputy appeared to focus on pulling data on South Carolina and Iowa voters based on turnout and support or lack of support for Clinton.
The Sanders campaign employees who accessed the Clinton voter information without authorization appear to have run afoul of the federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, said Jason Weinstein, a former supervisor of the Justice Department's computer crimes section.
Those employees "have reason to be concerned about legal exposure," he said, for what appears to fit the definition of illegal hacking.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)You LOST. Get over it.
Bernie WILL be the next president.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Still feeling smug?
We didn't lose. You'll see. And you'll be rather sad, too, I suspect.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)You'll see.
Oh, and, thanks. Y'all's idiocy just confirmed that.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)left the doors open to the separate campaign headquarters. One of the staff members (possibly more than one) went into the opposition's separate room, accessed the data 25 times or more of its opponent, looks like they copied a lot of it. Then the campaign that cheated fires the guy that did it, turns him in, and the Clubhouse locks out the whole campaign and doesn't given them access to their own property, because it may have some of the other mixed in?
I really don't see all the blame to Clinton coming from this board making any sense. Sander's people did this. Sander's may have a claim to their own data, but it seems that their own data is a derivative work of the Clinton data.
The Court has a nightmare on its hands.
Sanders was royally screwed by his really disloyal and dishonest employees.
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)on the evening news.
this was the very first news piece on the NBC national news tonight.
yea, just what Bernie needed.
Some say that any publicity is good publicity.
We shall see.
The optics are bad until we get the full story which will be hidden.