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Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:18 PM Dec 2015

There's an excellent analysis of the data breach posted on slashdot

I thought it could use it's own thread here, to counter some of the piss-poor analogies which have been posted lately.


Background (Score:5, Insightful)
by Chris Johnson (580) on Friday December 18, 2015 @11:16AM (#51143803) Homepage Journal

From what the news stories are saying, this firewall-dropping was happening repeatedly. So:

NGP-VAN, the company that stores this data, which is run by an old Clinton hand who worked for them in 1992, the company paid $34,000 by Ready For Hillary, was repeatedly dropping their firewall between the two major Dem campaigns, Clinton and Sanders.

A guy who’s now fired from the Sanders team observed this. They complained once and were given assurances by the company that it was a mistake and wouldn’t happen again. Then it happened again. The guy decided to gauge how deeply the Clinton campaign was able to read into the Sanders campaign, by experimenting to see how much of the Clinton data he could get. That’s a bad call but by information security standards it’s not unthinkable: it’d be called a white hat intrusion, seeing how much of the firewall was down by probing the other side and assuming your own data was revealed exactly the same way. It does matter, but you still have to fire the guy.

One thing we can be sure of is, anything open to ‘stealing’ on the Clinton side was just as open on the Sanders side, literally. It’s the same system and the same firewall, and if the firewall keeps mysteriously going down for no good reason you have to wonder what’s up and more relevantly what’s being made available to those on the other side of the firewall, which might explain why the firewall’s going down like that.

The Sanders people did NOT throw a fit the first time this happened. But this time, the Sanders guy got caught crossing the nonexistent firewall. We have no information at all on whether anybody from the Clinton side was doing the same thing. During that time there WAS NO firewall and the guy wasn’t hacking, he was browsing, as anybody on either side could have done during those windows.

I think that’s accurate so far. The behavior of the firewall is important, whether or not it’s suspicious as a planned exploit of the Sanders data run by Clinton people who are at the DNC and at NGP-VAN.

In response to the Sanders guy browsing over and seeing data (how do they know? Because HE TOLD THEM. The Sanders team were the ones reporting this, that’s part of the story), the DNC suspended access by the Sanders campaign to THEIR OWN DATA at a crucial time. In order to get access back, at least as of this morning, the requirement is for the Sanders campaign to prove it has destroyed all data that it didn’t necessarily even download (remember, Sanders guy claims he was exploring the Clinton system because it would mirror the vulnerability of the Sanders system, and he’s not IN the Clinton system to go and browse the Sanders side to see how much is revealed, but he was IN the Sanders side and could look at the Clinton side and reasonably conclude that his own side was equally compromised)

And social media is blowing the hell up, not unreasonably, because it’s a goddamn hatchet job combined with a kneecapping to yank access by the Bernie campaign to its OWN DATA because a guy from the Bernie campaign passively browsed through a firewall he didn’t himself disable, a firewall run by a company controlled by Clinton partisans which had been going down already for reasons unknown.

http://politics.slashdot.org/story/15/12/18/1536245/bernie-sanders-campaign-blocked-from-dnc-voter-info-after-improper-access


What did the Clinton campaign team know, and when did they know it? Why was their good friend repeatedly dropping the firewall?
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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There's an excellent analysis of the data breach posted on slashdot (Original Post) Electric Monk Dec 2015 OP
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2015 #1
Very good info. Thanks for posting it. Matariki Dec 2015 #2
Good post! - but I still think this analogy works for the technically impaired: Dragonfli Dec 2015 #3
A couple things: where's the evidence that any data was "stolen"? leveymg Dec 2015 #4
No attempt to subvert detection angrychair Dec 2015 #10
the door was open so we went in and helped ourselves without permission nt msongs Dec 2015 #5
Where's the evidence any data was "stolen"? leveymg Dec 2015 #6
see post #3 /NT Dragonfli Dec 2015 #7
Absolute insanity blaming the Clinton campaign. Bizarro world stuff. Metric System Dec 2015 #8
see the facts... see the facts Leftyforever Dec 2015 #27
This post should be stickied. Joe the Revelator Dec 2015 #9
He didn't "passively browse." He passed on the password to three other staffers pnwmom Dec 2015 #11
To most folks it's clearly unethical and dishonest behavior. oasis Dec 2015 #13
Yes, repeatedly dropping their firewall was unethical behavior, indeed. One must ask "Why?". nt Electric Monk Dec 2015 #14
"Gee Ma, it's the cookie jar's fault". Was never a defense oasis Dec 2015 #17
Another piss-poor analogy. This was white hat exposing an existing flaw that hadn't been addressed. Electric Monk Dec 2015 #18
It boils down to the choices Bernie's campaign workers had before them. oasis Dec 2015 #19
Full audit forthcoming! AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #25
Bring it on. oasis Dec 2015 #30
Again, no data was SAVED. BeanMusical Dec 2015 #20
That's not what MSNBC and ABC say. They say the database log shows pnwmom Dec 2015 #21
Sigh... Whatever. BeanMusical Dec 2015 #23
One of my relatives has a Phd in the field. I'll ask him. But he will be limited pnwmom Dec 2015 #24
what does that even mean? grasswire Dec 2015 #28
Because he wouldn't ever do what Uretsky did and so many here pnwmom Dec 2015 #29
no no no.... Leftyforever Dec 2015 #26
The logs show 3 other people that have Clinton data in result sets... this artile is uponit7771 Jan 2016 #35
Fascinating. n/t DirkGently Dec 2015 #12
OOOh! An old Clinton hand! murielm99 Dec 2015 #15
Excellent summary. AtomicKitten Dec 2015 #16
Kick and R BeanMusical Dec 2015 #22
Hillary operation is becoming just like Rove Doctor_J Dec 2015 #31
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Dec 2015 #32
ok, nt Electric Monk Jan 2016 #34
Kick oasis Dec 2015 #33
knr Douglas Carpenter Jan 2016 #36

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
3. Good post! - but I still think this analogy works for the technically impaired:
Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:29 PM
Dec 2015

You noticed the door to the adjoining suites you shared a floor with was open and wanted to know if your neighbor could fit trough the door into your suite and steal your stuff, so you walked through to see, knowing if you could, hey, either your neighbor probably already did, or at least could.

You only did it because the door to the neighboring suite kept being left open by someone, and you knew it wasn't you.
Sure, you tried to complain to the building manager about it, maybe put a lock on the door or somethin', but he just said, "sure thing kid" - but never did and it kept happening.

I myself don't trust the building manager because he is old pals and the former roomie of the tenant in the adjoining suite whose door you kept noticing would often be open leaving you vulnerable to them.

Now another former roomie of your neighbor has locked you out of the building and that damn door between the suites is still likely wide open, so now you should go to court because it's your place and you have a right to be let into your own part of the building.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
4. A couple things: where's the evidence that any data was "stolen"?
Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:32 PM
Dec 2015

And, on the other hand, if the Data Director was white hatting, why didn't he do the usual CYA thing and document what he was doing? Or did he - didn' t he and three staffers take screen shots of their browsing activities? Didn't the Bernie campaign notify DNC of this and DNC made it into a "breach"?

angrychair

(8,702 posts)
10. No attempt to subvert detection
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:36 AM
Dec 2015

Data integrity is serious business in that line of work. Based on the record of actions taking by the Sanders data steward, the reference data list (a list of the data set, not the voter data itself) was worthless. All of the access control information was linked by name to Sanders data steward and had Sanders name in the queries. No action was taken to hide the actions they were taking. Why? They were building a case to make that point there was a serious issue that needed to be addressed.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
11. He didn't "passively browse." He passed on the password to three other staffers
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:51 AM
Dec 2015

and coordinated 25 specific searches through Hillary's data. And both NBC and ABC reported that they SAVED data -- they didn't just look at it.

oasis

(49,389 posts)
13. To most folks it's clearly unethical and dishonest behavior.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:08 AM
Dec 2015

Now, step into The DU Twilight Zone.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
18. Another piss-poor analogy. This was white hat exposing an existing flaw that hadn't been addressed.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:36 AM
Dec 2015

Sanders' team initially reported it in October. Nothing was fixed. Why not? Somebody wanted it that way?


Here's an insightful post you may have missed:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128084631#post7

Star Member Turn CO Blue (3,646 posts)
7. Lists of voters "HFA support 60-100" is the exact opposite of helpful to Sanders.

"HFA Combined Persuasion 80-100) is the exact opposite of helpful to Sanders.
"HFA Primary Priority 9-10" is the exact opposite of helpful to Sanders.

You'd want LOW scores to find voter lists that MIGHT be worth targeting by Sanders' campaign (worth calling at that point, however, they didn't pull those lists, and low scores like could also indicate leaning Republican or voting history that was heavily Republican)

These searches do seem to back up their story that they were trying to prove to vendor (once and for all) that the breach kept happening.

oasis

(49,389 posts)
19. It boils down to the choices Bernie's campaign workers had before them.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:44 AM
Dec 2015

Maybe that's why the ring leader's head was rolled.

BeanMusical

(4,389 posts)
20. Again, no data was SAVED.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:20 AM
Dec 2015
The company’s president, Stu Trevelyan, told reporters that the glitch that made Clinton’s campaign data visible occurred during a routine update to the software, and an audit is underway. He said that Sanders’ staff would not have been able to save or export any data they saw.

http://m.nextgov.com/cybersecurity/2015/12/bernie-sanders-has-his-own-computer-scandal-data-breach-exposed-hillarys-secret-info/124637/

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
21. That's not what MSNBC and ABC say. They say the database log shows
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:22 AM
Dec 2015

there were numerous downloaded and saved searches.

And Huffington Post. And Time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sanders-sues-dnc_56748b06e4b06fa6887d883e?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013§ion=politics

Though Sanders' campaign has insisted that it did not keep the data its staffers viewed, Time magazine reported Friday that those staffers appear “to have obtained files with lists of voters that the Clinton campaign had cultivated in 10 early states including Iowa and New Hampshire” and that the staffers “created from scratch no fewer than 24 lists -- consisting entirely of data pulled down from the Clinton campaign’s database -- and saved them to their personal folders.”

SNIP

In addition, the Sanders campaign has said that it did not download or retain any of the Clinton campaign’s data, and Weaver reiterated that claim on Friday afternoon at a press conference in Washington. “This campaign does not possess any data, does not retain any data and does not want any data,” said Weaver.

But the records from the NGP VAN software indicate that Sanders staffers did in fact save data to its own folders.

BeanMusical

(4,389 posts)
23. Sigh... Whatever.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:28 AM
Dec 2015

I doubt that anyone can teach you or anybody else how all this works in one post. It usually takes years.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
24. One of my relatives has a Phd in the field. I'll ask him. But he will be limited
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:30 AM
Dec 2015

because he's ethical.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
29. Because he wouldn't ever do what Uretsky did and so many here
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:12 AM
Dec 2015

are trying to justify, on the "white hat" theory.

You don't go around stealing other political campaigns' voter targeting information, downloading dozens of searches into your own folder, on the white hat theory. Not if you're ethical.

Which is why they fired Uretsky and didn't even let him resign.

And yet for some inexplicable reason Bernie supporters feel the need to defend the guy.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
35. The logs show 3 other people that have Clinton data in result sets... this artile is
Fri Jan 1, 2016, 01:32 PM
Jan 2016

... disenginous at best

murielm99

(30,745 posts)
15. OOOh! An old Clinton hand!
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:10 AM
Dec 2015

Imagine that! A Democrat working for the VAN company! Who do they think is going to run the company? Karl Rove? Boehner?

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
16. Excellent summary.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:20 AM
Dec 2015

Politico has a headline screaming "Clinton Goes For the Jugular" http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/clintons-offense-will-be-personal-216962 indicating she was poised for the attack on the heels of the DNC's kabuki theater regarding the data breach. The Sanders campaign clearly were able to prove they had warned the DNC about the faulty firewall months ago, putting the onus of mismanagement back where it belongs, on the vendor and the DNC, both solidly in the Clinton camp. And the scheme to frag Bernie goes poof.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
31. Hillary operation is becoming just like Rove
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:54 PM
Dec 2015

Slimier with each passing day. The republicans used to be the only ones with morals like this. Now the dinos have infested my party.

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