irks you...

The party is fractured because a lot of people don't like corruption, and the magical (D) doesn't make it all better. Having the chair in the sack for one candidate hurts a lot.

I'm meh on both Hillary and Bernie but I agree with you about DWS.

regardless of either side. She made a big mistake. Before the state elections the party needs a new chair. Republicans will feast on this otherwise.

...you descend into pointing fingers anyways. Yes, the party is fractured. Every political party is fractured. You keep looking for common threads and move forward. One foot in front of the other. It isn't that complicated.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

One of the reasons that engineers and scientists are so famously bad at politics in general with a very few exceptions.

in the all the whirlwind, and I usually try to stay objective when I can. I majored in Bio, minored in Chem, and was a database admin for 7 years -- so I try to train myself to step back to get a bigger view. And just to be clear, I really do like Hillary, and think much of the venom lobbed at her is manufactured.

I had written 3 paragraphs in the middle, that I removed, where I had compared various actions and statements of Debbie's (but not her character) from 2008, 2010, 2014 and present - against leadership qualities I admire in a few other Democrats. And I had some figures of the rather low fundraising the last couple of years.

I was trying to make a case of what functions a national Chair should probably excel in. But then I decided I didn't want to reference other Democrats, esp not the POTUS. Scratched the entire middle. I guess after that, the thing just doesn't show how I'd reached my conclusions two years ago - that having DWS maintaining two (actually three) full time jobs plus travel just isn't working out well for the voters, and for the party, and that this whole emotional debacle on top, was happening after she lost me.

But I am going back to my more objective ways. Thanks for the reminder.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

How is that even possible. It's like talking about the world series without mentioning baseball. Weird.

Of course DWS didn't come down the same on both campaigns. She came down on the one who did the stealing.

about how I was done with DWS by 2014 with 3-4 different examples. So I was focusing on DWS, and not rehashing data thing itself because that part was in like 83 threads already, so repeating it seemed unnecessary.

1. But to your reference to the data part, I worked as a DB for 7 years, so while what Uretski did could be labeled a white hat incursion to prove to the vendor that they suck (not defending it) and that viewing anything is unethical, it is not the equivalent of theft of data. He did not steal any DATA (detailed records) at all - he stored the search links that would take him back to the equivalent of SUMMARY reports about Hillary's strongest supporters. How is that helpful in any way later to anyone but the vendor? The attributes the reports are filtering on would be hidden again later, so the report links would not function later -- and only the vendor would be able to use the links. Also, the Summary reports were about the which voters were *strongest* scores for Hillary - basically the exact opposite of helpful to a campaign and was not on actionable type of information. If you wanted information that would help the Sanders campaign, you would steal some type of actionable fields (not summary reports) of Hillary's *weakest* supporters, like their names and phone numbers or some kind of fields like that. But again, he did not steal anything. He searched for information he should not have and viewed it - and was rightly fired for that. But he did not export it or steal it.

2. Implicit from the Sanders lawsuit and from at least 3 references in different public statements, is that Sanders' campaign data was stolen from their servers in October and that this was reported to the DNC and that the wall between campaigns was dropping quite frequently. So when is DWS going to go public with that and openly scold those staffers and the campaign? It was either DNC or Hillary who went in and took Sanders' data two months ago.

3. Also, don't forget that Clinton's campaign went in and committed a much worse breach of Obama's data in 2008, and the DNC and that Chair handled it differently at that time, than under DWS' current leadership -- so the Hillary supporters ignoring that previous breach by some staffers is like talking about the world series while only counting your team's wins in the series.

But what is clear that is DWS is presiding over the worst fundraising totals in ages, has two full time jobs, and that two, possibly three of her co-chairs have expressed no confidence, and that last night even Howard Dean (former DNC Chair,and Hillary endorser, campaigning for her) was saying DWS handled this poorly, and two of Obama's former staffers have weighed in saying she is behaving in a partisan matter. So yeah, I got caught up in the whirlwind.

I just feel that a good Party Chair, would think the reputation of the party as important, and would consider the consequence for the turnout in general election as Priority One - and that we can't win without the udner-45s -- and would have mediated this in a closed meeting, BEFORE going to the press, or kept it out as much as possible. Like Dean did in 2008, right?

Actually, I can't stand all this mud flinging , and I'm gonna stay out of it going forward. I will be working on a local campaign, where I know I can make a difference. This will play out how it plays out.

The "reality" that exists within the confines of this self-selecting group isn't represented in anything that I've seen in the real world. The few Sanders supporters that I know personally aren't at ALL like the typical Bernie fan that I see here.

This thing was blowing up all over the internet, on the news sites, all of social media, and especially Facebook last night. I just felt that it was bigger than anyone was seeing - centrists and righties were all over this too. I Googled it and this blowup was the shiny object of the day in every corner and crevice of the universe last night, over 3.7M results for a 12 hour story (at the time).

Last night, cold and dark here, I just felt some despair, that this thing was everywhere and was backfiring on the party identity as a whole.

I have a more positive outlook today but this will flare again on the Sunday shows.

... but after the flash of anger and resentment subsides, I'm confident that all parties involved will do the right thing and this will eventually become a paragraph and footnote in the history books. In spite of all the words written here, in the end, there won't even be enough to fill an entire chapter in the political history books of 2066.