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Today shows that Bernie will meet attacks with firm resolve and action (Original Post) grasswire Dec 2015 OP
Like the real leader he is. Go Bernie! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2015 #1
This was actually kind of a win kenfrequed Dec 2015 #2
yes grasswire Dec 2015 #5
I guess you have no choice but to bow up like Trump when you are wrong. An apology Hoyt Dec 2015 #3
Bern Harbor ... Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2015 #4
LMAO leftofcool Dec 2015 #6
Actually, it shows how NOT to manage a situation. Renew Deal Dec 2015 #7
Yep...and your opinion is totally supported by the recent posts to HRC's Facebook page... Hepburn Dec 2015 #8
Is that what you said to supporters of marriage equality? Renew Deal Dec 2015 #10
No, but that's what Hillary said in her support of DOMA. Hepburn Dec 2015 #14
Link? Renew Deal Dec 2015 #15
Choose any of these from google: Hepburn Dec 2015 #17
Sorry, I don't see your quote there. Renew Deal Dec 2015 #19
Again: Google is your friend. Hepburn Dec 2015 #20
And as goes a FaceBook page ... NanceGreggs Dec 2015 #29
Here...this might help: Hepburn Dec 2015 #30
My candidate-of-choice ... NanceGreggs Dec 2015 #40
Well, I guess there are no voters on Facebook posting to HRC. Hepburn Dec 2015 #44
Well, let's just let FaceBook sort it all out ... NanceGreggs Dec 2015 #47
Wait...are people here actually PROUD that Sanders supporters are shitting all over Hillary's FB Number23 Dec 2015 #51
Well, in a word ... NanceGreggs Dec 2015 #54
Oh yes. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #60
I'm personally going to wait for discovery to pull out the truth of this. Given that roguevalley Dec 2015 #63
Changing those hearts and minds, one snarling, impotent "like" at a time Number23 Dec 2015 #64
False..... Nothing was stolen, don't disseminate falsehoods. Voice for Peace Dec 2015 #67
They fired a Whistleblower??? catnhatnh Dec 2015 #9
If he is telling the truth, then yes. Renew Deal Dec 2015 #11
So once again you want it both ways... catnhatnh Dec 2015 #16
I don't believe in that option. Renew Deal Dec 2015 #18
It looks like the BS supporters ... NanceGreggs Dec 2015 #35
Today shows that Sanders will bury the dishonesty, throw a fit, and allow the victim to be blamed. seabeyond Dec 2015 #12
^^^THIS^^^ SunSeeker Dec 2015 #37
I honestly cannot imagine a man that touts his integrity regularly, seeing staff members steal data seabeyond Dec 2015 #43
That says pretty much everything about character ... NanceGreggs Dec 2015 #50
Yes, his silence says a lot. nt SunSeeker Dec 2015 #59
what does it say about hillary in 2008 when she did the same thing? roguevalley Dec 2015 #65
What does it say that your only response is deflection? nt SunSeeker Dec 2015 #66
As Will I... I Only Have One Question... WillyT Dec 2015 #13
Sometimes you just have to go with Nelson. bvf Dec 2015 #32
Bernie's core zentrum Dec 2015 #21
Thank you! Duppers Dec 2015 #22
I cannot imagine middle America sees suing your own "family" as "presidential". SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2015 #23
Exactly. This is so out there weird that people would be suggesting this makes Sanders look good. seabeyond Dec 2015 #25
If your "family" is a bunch of corrupt pieces of shit, then yes, it is very presidential Ned_Devine Dec 2015 #33
Just throwing this out there, but thinking the one that needs to steal is the corrupt one, ya think? seabeyond Dec 2015 #48
I'm sick of even being polite with you HRC supporters Ned_Devine Dec 2015 #52
OK. So? seabeyond Dec 2015 #53
Very excellent point, SleeplessinSoCal.. Very unPresidential. bernie's team Sabotages his own Cha Dec 2015 #45
Not sure that Bernie is in control of his staffers right now. SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2015 #56
DWS / DNC were breaking the rules... ljm2002 Dec 2015 #71
Fuckin fierce, wasn't it? Le Taz Hot Dec 2015 #24
hell yeah grasswire Dec 2015 #27
impressive as hell, hey? restorefreedom Dec 2015 #70
Well done indeed. AtomicKitten Dec 2015 #26
It shows you can get away with theft by whining. leftofcool Dec 2015 #28
DNC stood strng and Sanders complied. I see no way Sanders benefitted. This is not how a president seabeyond Dec 2015 #31
Right. By sending his henchman, Jeff Weaver, to radiate fury at the cameras for him. pnwmom Dec 2015 #34
Lol my wife rjsquirrel Dec 2015 #39
I know. pnwmom Dec 2015 #41
Or rjsquirrel Dec 2015 #36
If a candidate's supporters are deciding your vote for you, Ron Green Dec 2015 #46
What a snotty response rjsquirrel Dec 2015 #69
You certainly took some time and effort to refute my post, Ron Green Dec 2015 #72
As an undecided... 2naSalit Dec 2015 #38
He didn't do a stellar job of conveying his knowledge about the law pnwmom Dec 2015 #42
weak argument pnwmom..... Leftyforever Dec 2015 #55
LOL SunSeeker Dec 2015 #62
Yup Stryder Dec 2015 #49
He's been around the block a few times. snot Dec 2015 #57
Today shows that Bernie workinclasszero Dec 2015 #58
This whole thing also has also demonstrated the Party needs a good flushing. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2015 #61
Not just action: *appropriate* action. n/t winter is coming Dec 2015 #68

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
2. This was actually kind of a win
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:08 AM
Dec 2015

He galvanized his support, showed some teeth, proved that he could rally progressives, and he got some much needed press time.

Additionally he was able to strike at the Third Way Democrats that have been running the DNC and drew attention to the way they had been trying to rig the system.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
5. yes
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:09 AM
Dec 2015

plus he raised a lot of money, AND he put DWS on notice that this may not be over and she better beware of any coordination with Hillary campaign.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
3. I guess you have no choice but to bow up like Trump when you are wrong. An apology
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:09 AM
Dec 2015

to Democrats would have been more like it.

Renew Deal

(81,866 posts)
7. Actually, it shows how NOT to manage a situation.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:20 AM
Dec 2015

They fired a whistleblower.
They sent a madman onto the TV that was ranting and raving which made the campaign look out of control
The guy they fired hit the TV telling a different story than the Sanders campaign
They sued the DNC which forced them to admit wrongdoing again.
They got access to the data back which they would have gotten either way.
They gained nothing, but they got labeled as dirty to a lot of people that were barely paying attention.

Hepburn

(21,054 posts)
8. Yep...and your opinion is totally supported by the recent posts to HRC's Facebook page...
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:23 AM
Dec 2015

...NOT.

You are in a total minority on those claims.

Renew Deal

(81,866 posts)
10. Is that what you said to supporters of marriage equality?
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:26 AM
Dec 2015

"You are in a total minority on those claims."

Hepburn

(21,054 posts)
20. Again: Google is your friend.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:37 AM
Dec 2015

There are lots of quotes there. So read them all...I will check with you later. Night.

NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
40. My candidate-of-choice ...
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:30 AM
Dec 2015

... is nowhere near the graveyard. Yours, on the other hand ...

But of course, at this point, the election of the 2016 Democratic nominee is strictly in the hands of FaceBook.

Hepburn

(21,054 posts)
44. Well, I guess there are no voters on Facebook posting to HRC.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:36 AM
Dec 2015

Just made up people who will never vote! Keep the whistle...you are gonna need it. You are far removed from reality of you think that this stunt did not damage Hillary.

Be sure and go to Facebook and tell the voters on there they are unimportant. Oh, wait...that's right...you and HRC are more interested in the 1% and Wall Street than the Little People who go to Facebook. Gee, are you one of the attendants selected by DWS to be in the HRC coronation? I wouldn't start polishing your pearls just yet.

NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
47. Well, let's just let FaceBook sort it all out ...
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:41 AM
Dec 2015

BS's campaign steals HRC's data - but BS is the victim here. Sure, makes sense.

"FaceBook - electing presidents since ... well, since never."


Number23

(24,544 posts)
51. Wait...are people here actually PROUD that Sanders supporters are shitting all over Hillary's FB
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:47 AM
Dec 2015

page???!!!!!??!!!??!

Yes, that is DEFINITELY the best way to prove to the world that you are sane and not unhinged supporters of a world class candidate who should be taken seriously.

Sweet Lord in Heaven...

NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
54. Well, in a word ...
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:50 AM
Dec 2015

... yes.

Probably the same people who shit all over John Lewis' FB page when he endorsed HRC.

With a winning campaign strategy like this, it's amazing that Bernie is so far behind in the polls.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
63. I'm personally going to wait for discovery to pull out the truth of this. Given that
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:20 AM
Dec 2015

hill did this in 2008 and no one crapped their pants it makes this mooning hilarious. Given that he told them two months ago there was a breech and now the day before the debate DWS has a fit, well it don't take an abacas to figure this out. But go ahead. Call names and what not. When the emails come out, then the truth will too. Defending DWS right now in my book is analogous to defending a liar and a cheat. Have at it.

Renew Deal

(81,866 posts)
11. If he is telling the truth, then yes.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:27 AM
Dec 2015

If not, he is a crook and they hired him. Either way it's ugly.

catnhatnh

(8,976 posts)
16. So once again you want it both ways...
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:31 AM
Dec 2015

...and you ignore the third possibility that he was trying to be a whistleblower but the way he tried it was improper and THAT is why he got fired. And that sounds most like Bernie to me.

Renew Deal

(81,866 posts)
18. I don't believe in that option.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:34 AM
Dec 2015

Because if that is truly the case, the Sanders campaign should have stood by their person. He didn't deserve to be fired for that.

NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
35. It looks like the BS supporters ...
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:22 AM
Dec 2015

... want it both ways.

One of two things happened today:

Either BS fired a valuable campaign employee because he was guilty of wrongdoing ...

OR

Bernie offered up an innocent employee as a scapegoat by firing him - thereby making him appear to be guilty of wrongdoing.

Had your "third possibility" been believable, BS could have made a statement to that effect - i.e. my man thought he was doing the right thing, but went about it in the wrong way.

Thus far, no such statement has been made.

Looks like someone got hung out to dry by the "ethical" Mr. Sanders.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
12. Today shows that Sanders will bury the dishonesty, throw a fit, and allow the victim to be blamed.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:27 AM
Dec 2015
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
43. I honestly cannot imagine a man that touts his integrity regularly, seeing staff members steal data
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:36 AM
Dec 2015

of an opponent and listening to supporters and staffers blame the victim, not say a word.

What kind of man would allow his people to blame Clinton for what is his responsibility. What kind of man would allow his people to speak of the victim with disdain, and say nothing. Say absolutely nothing, when he is ultimately the one responsible for what happened.

When a man claims to have integrity he does not stay silent. He speaks up, making it clear to all, that Clinton was the victim of theft and to quit pointing the finger at her.

But Sanders, a man that so sees himself the epitome of integrity said nothing, all day, while his people continually attacked and shifted the blame of theft, onto the victim.

That says something about character.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
65. what does it say about hillary in 2008 when she did the same thing?
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:26 AM
Dec 2015

"A similar security breach happened during the 2008 presidential primaries, the complaint said, and ended up transmitting confidential information to another still-prominent candidate: Clinton."

Hillary and DWS have been joined at the hip since 2008.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
13. As Will I... I Only Have One Question...
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:28 AM
Dec 2015

Does DU have a :gloat: smilie ???









Oh... and...

& Rec !!!


SleeplessinSoCal

(9,123 posts)
23. I cannot imagine middle America sees suing your own "family" as "presidential".
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:53 AM
Dec 2015

Bernie's team is not doing his campaign any favors by breaking the rules and then suing.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
25. Exactly. This is so out there weird that people would be suggesting this makes Sanders look good.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:57 AM
Dec 2015

The exact opposite. What is this that people can convince themselves like this. Sanders people steal. Clinton's fault. And however, they believe. Sanders makes excuses for thefts, deflects, hides, then threatens with law suit. Presidential.

I am fascinated by what I have read tonight.

Anyway, you may be sleepless, but I am not.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
48. Just throwing this out there, but thinking the one that needs to steal is the corrupt one, ya think?
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:43 AM
Dec 2015

Cha

(297,323 posts)
45. Very excellent point, SleeplessinSoCal.. Very unPresidential. bernie's team Sabotages his own
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:36 AM
Dec 2015

campaign so bern sees an opportunity to get some money from the DNC.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,123 posts)
56. Not sure that Bernie is in control of his staffers right now.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:55 AM
Dec 2015

We know they hate DWS. Who doesn't? She should have resigned right after the 2014 election. But the RNC is so much worse. And the Sanders campaign has taken to emulating Trump with lawsuit talk.

I was hoping for so much better from this team. Today they're giving Socialism a black eye.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
71. DWS / DNC were breaking the rules...
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 11:17 AM
Dec 2015

...when they denied the Sanders campaign access to the data. There is a contract that governs what the parties can do w.r.t. data access. The DNC was obliged to give the Sanders campaign 10 days to rectify the situation before they can pull access to the data. DWS decided to just go ahead and pull access.

The Sanders campaign did the right thing to sue for an injunction. The campaign is in a critical phase and they were being hogtied, and not in accordance with the agreement they had signed with DNC.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
24. Fuckin fierce, wasn't it?
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:54 AM
Dec 2015

Damn! The campaign KICKED ASS today! After a few hours even the MSM couldn't polish this turd. Now all I'm hearing is "why ARE the debates scheduled on Saturdays when no one is watching?"

Like I wasn't already impressed as hell with this campaign.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
70. impressive as hell, hey?
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:18 AM
Dec 2015

imagine what he will do as president!

he just put everyone on notice...the bullshit is over..time for the grown ups to take charge now.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
31. DNC stood strng and Sanders complied. I see no way Sanders benefitted. This is not how a president
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:18 AM
Dec 2015

Behaves or solves problems. We saw the results with Bushco.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
34. Right. By sending his henchman, Jeff Weaver, to radiate fury at the cameras for him.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:20 AM
Dec 2015

I think it would have been over a lot faster if Bernie had just gone up there himself and said "I knew nothing about it, it was wrong, and the guy was fired."

End of story.

 

rjsquirrel

(4,762 posts)
39. Lol my wife
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:28 AM
Dec 2015

who is undecided between Sanders and Clinton just watched Weaver and lost a lot of respect for Sanders in those few minutes. Weaver was that creepy and cultish.

Bernie surrounds himself with creeps.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
41. I know.
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:33 AM
Dec 2015

What is with that guy?

Bernie comes across as loud and angry sometimes, but with a heart. He feels real.

Weaver comes across as loud and angry and icy, icy cold. He was just play-acting.

 

rjsquirrel

(4,762 posts)
36. Or
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:23 AM
Dec 2015

his supporters will meet challenges with screaming fits of childish rage that anyone would think he wasn't perfect.

Sanders lost my support several weeks ago because of the way his supporters act, which to me is indistinguishable from the Trump true believers. Their guy is perfect, everyone else gets shouted down for impure ideology.

Ron Green

(9,823 posts)
46. If a candidate's supporters are deciding your vote for you,
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:37 AM
Dec 2015

I respectfully suggest you've got it wrong.

 

rjsquirrel

(4,762 posts)
69. What a snotty response
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:07 AM
Dec 2015

You suggest?

I'm in my 50s, have been voting since I was 18, and politically active my entire life.

And yes, a candidate's supporters make all the difference in my vote. No one supports a candidate in a vacuum. Obama would not be president if his supporters did not recognize each other and form a movement. Nor would any right wing candidate. be successful. It's you who has a sloppy, lazy understanding of democracy.

To repeat: I have always like Bernie Sanders as a senator (and representative, I've been supporting him with checks for a long time). I admire his views and his stances. I think he's idealistic and a little out of touch with younger people, especially. But I think he's honest and wise.

However, the movement that has built up around him is none of these things. It is full of people like you. Snotty, self-righteous, passive-aggressive (or just aggressive so often around here), and insistent on the truth and righteousness of your candidate and the venality and lack of substance of any other candidate, usually expressed in overtly misogynist terms that closely resemble the smearing of Ms. Clinton by the far right.

Here's how close I came -- I even discussed this on DU as I did it. I've been a registered independent since the 1990s, although generally I vote and donate to democrats. I live in New York, so HRC was my senator, along with the execrable Chuckie Schumer, with corrupt albatross Cuomo at the governor's chair and a deeply corrupt assembly in which the Dems are worse than the Rs, who are also terrible. I not only voted for Obama twice; I predicted his presidency in 2004, worked my ass off for him in 2008 (including direct canvassing in Indiana and North Carolina, two crucial states we won), and gave him every penny I was legally permitted to send ($5K). I sent him less in 2012 and didn't work for his campaign, which by then I had begun to grow disappointed in (but I still voted for him of course).

I also did my time in Zuccotti Park, unlike most of the faux-gressives supporting Bernie around here. And I voted in every midterm election, definitely unlike most Bernie supporters I meet.

This summer, as Bernie came out of the gate, I decided to re-register as a Democrat JUST SO I COULD VOTE FOR BERNIE against Hillary in the New York primary. I knew HRC would win both our primary and the general in New York, walking away. So I felt this was a safe protest vote against the problems I most certainly do have with HRC's relationship to Wall Street and the military/surveillance state (I personally don't find her any more dishonest or shrill than anyone else, or whatever misogynist bullshit people throw at her and not male politicians). I was proud to vote for Bernie as a symbolic gesture. I had no illusions that he would win.

He's still not gonna win. But he has acquired the vocal support of the kind of progressive I don't like, the ones who made a lot of noise for Obama and then didn't come out to vote in the midterms, the ones who find themselves always dissatisfied with good outcomes that aren't perfect, the ones who idiotically insisted on Elizabeth Warren running, the ones who churlishly supported Nader in 2000, the ones who live and die by political correctness and crazy conspiracy theories, the ones who listen to insane progressive talk shows like Thom Hartmann and think they are any more truthful than Rush Limbaugh, and the weird bro-culture progressives who have managed to support Bernie while being not even slightly introspective about their misogyny.

They are all over DU. They are here shouting down anyone who criticizes anything Bernie says, or praises Clinton or defends her against Republican-style blanket accusations of dishonesty and corruption. They are banning people from groups, and screaming about conspiracies.

So yes, I do look at the company a candidate keeps as a strong indication of how he or she is actually going to perform, what accountabilities her or she will feel if in office, and what political message his or her candidacy is intended to sell. It is remarkable to me that I seem to have misjudged Sanders all these years as a real old-school lefty progressive New York candidate who happened to live in Vermont. Turns out he's a demagogue, and his demagoguery appeals to people who are as fascist in their basic personalities as many Trump supporters are, caught in the same cult of personality right-or-wrong perspective that always fails eventually, and convinced that a socialist with a Brooklyn accent who has never accomplished anything particularly substantive in his years at the margins of federal politics (as much as I admire his anti-war votes, he never won anything) is either more qualified or a better option to be president of the US than a two term senator and 6 year secretary of state who has broadly the same progressive social values but represents a much more diverse set of views held by many more Americans than Bernie's (polls aside, no Americans are not going to decide they're actually socialist in the next year, that's progressive fantasy that worked really well for Presidents McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry, right?).

So, with no due respect because none is due, I say pfffft. Yes I do look at the supporters of a candidate in deciding whether to back her/him. Anyone who doesn't is stupid. No candidate gets anything done without a constituency. A candidate *is* his/her constituency once in office. You Sanders folks love to assert that you don't support Ms. Clinton because her constituency includes people you don't like - bankers, traders, CEOs, whatever conspiratorial views you have, these are American citizens too -- so you're calling the kettle black from the inside of a pot of judgment anyway.

Bernie almost had my protest vote in the New York primary. His supporters made me rethink that and decide to vote proudly for our first woman president, as much as I don't like some of her views. I like her supporters better.




Ron Green

(9,823 posts)
72. You certainly took some time and effort to refute my post,
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:38 PM
Dec 2015

and I detect a little bit of anger here; in your third paragraph you've called me some names that aren't true or fair, and I did not attack you in the same way.

You seem to be upset by a group of Bernie supporters who've exhibited over-the-top behavior, and I understand that it's frustrating to see thoughts and actions from political quarters far from our "liberal" alliance used to attack a candidate with impeccable Democratic Party credentials who's worked so hard to get where she is. I also understand, though, that the fear of Hillary Clinton and her neoliberal ways and means serves to motivate people from all over the spectrum to want to see Bernie have a fair chance in the media and on the ground to deliver what is probably the most important political message of my lifetime, which is considerably longer than yours: We must begin to rid this country of its oligarchic bonds, and let real people develop real solutions to their own problems, in solidarity and subsidiarity.

Your accusation of Bernie sanders as a "demagogue" seems extreme; that'll be seen after either his election or Hillary's nomination. But for his monumental fall from grace in your eyes, due simply to the understandable zeal of those who sense the danger of "business as usual," to prompt such a rude reply to my post is going a bit far.

I don't know your name, but you know mine - and I've been a Democratic candidate for office, defending Obama from both the right and left even as his campaign (and much of the state Democratic Party) refused to help me in my own race. I'll further discuss my views if you wish, but please don't name-call "people like me" until you have more facts.

2naSalit

(86,650 posts)
38. As an undecided...
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:27 AM
Dec 2015

I would like to say that I see this as an illustration of what many never knew about him or forgot. Bernie knows the law like the back of his hand and he has been around long enough to know how to handle a novice like DWS.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
42. He didn't do a stellar job of conveying his knowledge about the law
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:34 AM
Dec 2015

to the top staffer he had to fire.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
58. Today shows that Bernie
Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:04 AM
Dec 2015

stepped in it again and used very bad judgment.

Obviously a bad judge of character going by the hackers he hired for his campaign staff.

Not ready to be president at all.

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