2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumToday shows that Bernie will meet attacks with firm resolve and action
And so it is a giant P.R. win for him.
He will stand against enemies foreign and domestic.
No fear there. None.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)He galvanized his support, showed some teeth, proved that he could rally progressives, and he got some much needed press time.
Additionally he was able to strike at the Third Way Democrats that have been running the DNC and drew attention to the way they had been trying to rig the system.
plus he raised a lot of money, AND he put DWS on notice that this may not be over and she better beware of any coordination with Hillary campaign.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)to Democrats would have been more like it.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)... the Sleeping Giant awakes.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Renew Deal
(81,866 posts)They fired a whistleblower.
They sent a madman onto the TV that was ranting and raving which made the campaign look out of control
The guy they fired hit the TV telling a different story than the Sanders campaign
They sued the DNC which forced them to admit wrongdoing again.
They got access to the data back which they would have gotten either way.
They gained nothing, but they got labeled as dirty to a lot of people that were barely paying attention.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)...NOT.
You are in a total minority on those claims.
Renew Deal
(81,866 posts)"You are in a total minority on those claims."
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Next question.
Renew Deal
(81,866 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Renew Deal
(81,866 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)There are lots of quotes there. So read them all...I will check with you later. Night.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... so goes the world.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)I figure by now your lips must be pretty chapped from all the whistling.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... is nowhere near the graveyard. Yours, on the other hand ...
But of course, at this point, the election of the 2016 Democratic nominee is strictly in the hands of FaceBook.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Just made up people who will never vote! Keep the whistle...you are gonna need it. You are far removed from reality of you think that this stunt did not damage Hillary.
Be sure and go to Facebook and tell the voters on there they are unimportant. Oh, wait...that's right...you and HRC are more interested in the 1% and Wall Street than the Little People who go to Facebook. Gee, are you one of the attendants selected by DWS to be in the HRC coronation? I wouldn't start polishing your pearls just yet.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)BS's campaign steals HRC's data - but BS is the victim here. Sure, makes sense.
"FaceBook - electing presidents since ... well, since never."
Number23
(24,544 posts)page???!!!!!??!!!??!
Yes, that is DEFINITELY the best way to prove to the world that you are sane and not unhinged supporters of a world class candidate who should be taken seriously.
Sweet Lord in Heaven...
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... yes.
Probably the same people who shit all over John Lewis' FB page when he endorsed HRC.
With a winning campaign strategy like this, it's amazing that Bernie is so far behind in the polls.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)They think it's like voting.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)hill did this in 2008 and no one crapped their pants it makes this mooning hilarious. Given that he told them two months ago there was a breech and now the day before the debate DWS has a fit, well it don't take an abacas to figure this out. But go ahead. Call names and what not. When the emails come out, then the truth will too. Defending DWS right now in my book is analogous to defending a liar and a cheat. Have at it.
Number23
(24,544 posts)LORD have mercy...
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)So you believe he actually was exposing wrongdoing? Interesting...
Renew Deal
(81,866 posts)If not, he is a crook and they hired him. Either way it's ugly.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)...and you ignore the third possibility that he was trying to be a whistleblower but the way he tried it was improper and THAT is why he got fired. And that sounds most like Bernie to me.
Renew Deal
(81,866 posts)Because if that is truly the case, the Sanders campaign should have stood by their person. He didn't deserve to be fired for that.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... want it both ways.
One of two things happened today:
Either BS fired a valuable campaign employee because he was guilty of wrongdoing ...
OR
Bernie offered up an innocent employee as a scapegoat by firing him - thereby making him appear to be guilty of wrongdoing.
Had your "third possibility" been believable, BS could have made a statement to that effect - i.e. my man thought he was doing the right thing, but went about it in the wrong way.
Thus far, no such statement has been made.
Looks like someone got hung out to dry by the "ethical" Mr. Sanders.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)of an opponent and listening to supporters and staffers blame the victim, not say a word.
What kind of man would allow his people to blame Clinton for what is his responsibility. What kind of man would allow his people to speak of the victim with disdain, and say nothing. Say absolutely nothing, when he is ultimately the one responsible for what happened.
When a man claims to have integrity he does not stay silent. He speaks up, making it clear to all, that Clinton was the victim of theft and to quit pointing the finger at her.
But Sanders, a man that so sees himself the epitome of integrity said nothing, all day, while his people continually attacked and shifted the blame of theft, onto the victim.
That says something about character.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... or, more to the point, the lack thereof.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)"A similar security breach happened during the 2008 presidential primaries, the complaint said, and ended up transmitting confidential information to another still-prominent candidate: Clinton."
Hillary and DWS have been joined at the hip since 2008.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)Does DU have a :gloat: smilie ???
Oh... and...
& Rec !!!
bvf
(6,604 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)......is always solid.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)As I posted earlier...http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=914286
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,123 posts)Bernie's team is not doing his campaign any favors by breaking the rules and then suing.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)The exact opposite. What is this that people can convince themselves like this. Sanders people steal. Clinton's fault. And however, they believe. Sanders makes excuses for thefts, deflects, hides, then threatens with law suit. Presidential.
I am fascinated by what I have read tonight.
Anyway, you may be sleepless, but I am not.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Cha
(297,323 posts)campaign so bern sees an opportunity to get some money from the DNC.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,123 posts)We know they hate DWS. Who doesn't? She should have resigned right after the 2014 election. But the RNC is so much worse. And the Sanders campaign has taken to emulating Trump with lawsuit talk.
I was hoping for so much better from this team. Today they're giving Socialism a black eye.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...when they denied the Sanders campaign access to the data. There is a contract that governs what the parties can do w.r.t. data access. The DNC was obliged to give the Sanders campaign 10 days to rectify the situation before they can pull access to the data. DWS decided to just go ahead and pull access.
The Sanders campaign did the right thing to sue for an injunction. The campaign is in a critical phase and they were being hogtied, and not in accordance with the agreement they had signed with DNC.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Damn! The campaign KICKED ASS today! After a few hours even the MSM couldn't polish this turd. Now all I'm hearing is "why ARE the debates scheduled on Saturdays when no one is watching?"
Like I wasn't already impressed as hell with this campaign.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I bet even the Donald sat up and took notice.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)imagine what he will do as president!
he just put everyone on notice...the bullshit is over..time for the grown ups to take charge now.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Behaves or solves problems. We saw the results with Bushco.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I think it would have been over a lot faster if Bernie had just gone up there himself and said "I knew nothing about it, it was wrong, and the guy was fired."
End of story.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)who is undecided between Sanders and Clinton just watched Weaver and lost a lot of respect for Sanders in those few minutes. Weaver was that creepy and cultish.
Bernie surrounds himself with creeps.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)What is with that guy?
Bernie comes across as loud and angry sometimes, but with a heart. He feels real.
Weaver comes across as loud and angry and icy, icy cold. He was just play-acting.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)his supporters will meet challenges with screaming fits of childish rage that anyone would think he wasn't perfect.
Sanders lost my support several weeks ago because of the way his supporters act, which to me is indistinguishable from the Trump true believers. Their guy is perfect, everyone else gets shouted down for impure ideology.
Ron Green
(9,823 posts)I respectfully suggest you've got it wrong.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)You suggest?
I'm in my 50s, have been voting since I was 18, and politically active my entire life.
And yes, a candidate's supporters make all the difference in my vote. No one supports a candidate in a vacuum. Obama would not be president if his supporters did not recognize each other and form a movement. Nor would any right wing candidate. be successful. It's you who has a sloppy, lazy understanding of democracy.
To repeat: I have always like Bernie Sanders as a senator (and representative, I've been supporting him with checks for a long time). I admire his views and his stances. I think he's idealistic and a little out of touch with younger people, especially. But I think he's honest and wise.
However, the movement that has built up around him is none of these things. It is full of people like you. Snotty, self-righteous, passive-aggressive (or just aggressive so often around here), and insistent on the truth and righteousness of your candidate and the venality and lack of substance of any other candidate, usually expressed in overtly misogynist terms that closely resemble the smearing of Ms. Clinton by the far right.
Here's how close I came -- I even discussed this on DU as I did it. I've been a registered independent since the 1990s, although generally I vote and donate to democrats. I live in New York, so HRC was my senator, along with the execrable Chuckie Schumer, with corrupt albatross Cuomo at the governor's chair and a deeply corrupt assembly in which the Dems are worse than the Rs, who are also terrible. I not only voted for Obama twice; I predicted his presidency in 2004, worked my ass off for him in 2008 (including direct canvassing in Indiana and North Carolina, two crucial states we won), and gave him every penny I was legally permitted to send ($5K). I sent him less in 2012 and didn't work for his campaign, which by then I had begun to grow disappointed in (but I still voted for him of course).
I also did my time in Zuccotti Park, unlike most of the faux-gressives supporting Bernie around here. And I voted in every midterm election, definitely unlike most Bernie supporters I meet.
This summer, as Bernie came out of the gate, I decided to re-register as a Democrat JUST SO I COULD VOTE FOR BERNIE against Hillary in the New York primary. I knew HRC would win both our primary and the general in New York, walking away. So I felt this was a safe protest vote against the problems I most certainly do have with HRC's relationship to Wall Street and the military/surveillance state (I personally don't find her any more dishonest or shrill than anyone else, or whatever misogynist bullshit people throw at her and not male politicians). I was proud to vote for Bernie as a symbolic gesture. I had no illusions that he would win.
He's still not gonna win. But he has acquired the vocal support of the kind of progressive I don't like, the ones who made a lot of noise for Obama and then didn't come out to vote in the midterms, the ones who find themselves always dissatisfied with good outcomes that aren't perfect, the ones who idiotically insisted on Elizabeth Warren running, the ones who churlishly supported Nader in 2000, the ones who live and die by political correctness and crazy conspiracy theories, the ones who listen to insane progressive talk shows like Thom Hartmann and think they are any more truthful than Rush Limbaugh, and the weird bro-culture progressives who have managed to support Bernie while being not even slightly introspective about their misogyny.
They are all over DU. They are here shouting down anyone who criticizes anything Bernie says, or praises Clinton or defends her against Republican-style blanket accusations of dishonesty and corruption. They are banning people from groups, and screaming about conspiracies.
So yes, I do look at the company a candidate keeps as a strong indication of how he or she is actually going to perform, what accountabilities her or she will feel if in office, and what political message his or her candidacy is intended to sell. It is remarkable to me that I seem to have misjudged Sanders all these years as a real old-school lefty progressive New York candidate who happened to live in Vermont. Turns out he's a demagogue, and his demagoguery appeals to people who are as fascist in their basic personalities as many Trump supporters are, caught in the same cult of personality right-or-wrong perspective that always fails eventually, and convinced that a socialist with a Brooklyn accent who has never accomplished anything particularly substantive in his years at the margins of federal politics (as much as I admire his anti-war votes, he never won anything) is either more qualified or a better option to be president of the US than a two term senator and 6 year secretary of state who has broadly the same progressive social values but represents a much more diverse set of views held by many more Americans than Bernie's (polls aside, no Americans are not going to decide they're actually socialist in the next year, that's progressive fantasy that worked really well for Presidents McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry, right?).
So, with no due respect because none is due, I say pfffft. Yes I do look at the supporters of a candidate in deciding whether to back her/him. Anyone who doesn't is stupid. No candidate gets anything done without a constituency. A candidate *is* his/her constituency once in office. You Sanders folks love to assert that you don't support Ms. Clinton because her constituency includes people you don't like - bankers, traders, CEOs, whatever conspiratorial views you have, these are American citizens too -- so you're calling the kettle black from the inside of a pot of judgment anyway.
Bernie almost had my protest vote in the New York primary. His supporters made me rethink that and decide to vote proudly for our first woman president, as much as I don't like some of her views. I like her supporters better.
Ron Green
(9,823 posts)and I detect a little bit of anger here; in your third paragraph you've called me some names that aren't true or fair, and I did not attack you in the same way.
You seem to be upset by a group of Bernie supporters who've exhibited over-the-top behavior, and I understand that it's frustrating to see thoughts and actions from political quarters far from our "liberal" alliance used to attack a candidate with impeccable Democratic Party credentials who's worked so hard to get where she is. I also understand, though, that the fear of Hillary Clinton and her neoliberal ways and means serves to motivate people from all over the spectrum to want to see Bernie have a fair chance in the media and on the ground to deliver what is probably the most important political message of my lifetime, which is considerably longer than yours: We must begin to rid this country of its oligarchic bonds, and let real people develop real solutions to their own problems, in solidarity and subsidiarity.
Your accusation of Bernie sanders as a "demagogue" seems extreme; that'll be seen after either his election or Hillary's nomination. But for his monumental fall from grace in your eyes, due simply to the understandable zeal of those who sense the danger of "business as usual," to prompt such a rude reply to my post is going a bit far.
I don't know your name, but you know mine - and I've been a Democratic candidate for office, defending Obama from both the right and left even as his campaign (and much of the state Democratic Party) refused to help me in my own race. I'll further discuss my views if you wish, but please don't name-call "people like me" until you have more facts.
2naSalit
(86,650 posts)I would like to say that I see this as an illustration of what many never knew about him or forgot. Bernie knows the law like the back of his hand and he has been around long enough to know how to handle a novice like DWS.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)to the top staffer he had to fire.
Leftyforever
(317 posts)your side looks foolish
Yep.
Just a good solid, Yup.
snot
(10,530 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)stepped in it again and used very bad judgment.
Obviously a bad judge of character going by the hackers he hired for his campaign staff.
Not ready to be president at all.