2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI've always liked and respected Bernie Sanders but many of his supporters are doing him a disservice
I have no doubt that the vast majority of Sanders supporters are rational, committed, fair and knowledgeable - most of the ones that I know personally certainly are. But, unfortunately, the rational supporters are being drowned out by some of the most obnoxious, ignorant, hateful and childish voices I have seen in my many years in politics, voices that I am used to hearing in other camps, not in ours.
Bernie Sanders is a good man but he is not perfect and he is certainly not the first or second coming of the Savior. Hillary Clinton is not perfect but she is a good woman and she is certainly not the Anti-Christ. But no one would know either of these basic facts by reading the over-the-top postings that proliferate here these days.
I consistently argue that people should not blame entire groups for the bad behavior of a few, and apply that here, as well; I recognize that the most prolific and hateful words and attitudes expressed by some Sanders supporters here do not represent Sanders himself or the majority of his supporters. But I do wish that the more reasonable Sanders supporters would speak up and, if not go so far to chastise their fellow supporters, at least engage in civil discussions with supporters of other candidates more often. This would go a long way to improve the civility and value of this forum - which right now has little more than an embarrassing display of mud-slinging, attacks, whining and taunting with little to useful information provided. I understand that that isn't easy given the vitriol that would likely be thrown their way from some of their fellow supporters if they dare to do this, but I hope that they will in order to help change the tone of this debate.
I am quite sure that I will be viciously attacked for saying all of this and will be bombarded with plenty of "both sides do it!"/"Hillary supporters say this that and the other" but that is a false equivalency. Both sides DON'T do it in equal measure, regardless how much anyone claims otherwise. The ugly, negative, personal attacks on Hillary Clinton by so-called Democrats in this forum are completely beyond the pale and are exponentially beyond anything being directed at Sen. Sanders. But far from building support for their candidate or lessening support for his opponents, those who are engaging in this behavior are preventing your fellow supporters who actually have something meaningful to say from being heard.
And instead of constantly complaining that Sanders is being marginalized, consider the possibility that this in large part because the rest of us, try as we might, are having trouble hearing what he and many of his supporters have to say over the noise and chaos that YOU are creating.
So, to the Sanders supporters who are behaving this way, I say, calm down, grow up, take a breath and let someone else talk for awhile. You might be surprised at the results.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)You may be a fast reader and typist, but I sincerely doubt that you actually read it AND typed your response in two minutes.
But you are helping to illustrate my point, so your post does have some value. Thank you.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
mmonk
(52,589 posts)you have to deal with every time you listen.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
global1
(25,253 posts)who are doing a disservice to her. Remember when you point a finger at someone - 3 fingers are pointing back at you.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)...epic fail on all points.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)global1
(25,253 posts)that was the message you were making.
Florencenj2point0
(435 posts)Leaders take responsibility when their staff does something illegal. They not only stole the data, they downloaded right into excel spreadsheets. Plus, it was not the Sanders campaign who reported the firewall down and they kept downloading until a third party notified the vendor. The vendor had to stop the theft and remove the data from the Sanders files.
BTW, I have volunteered thousands of hours for Hillary over the years, so I got my calculator out and at $15.00 an hour Sanders owes me $75,000. I sent him a reply to the email he sent me this morning when he decided it was okay to fundraise off my hard earned money...... letting him know I expected a check in the mail.
Flo.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Link to a RELIABLE source to support all of the allegations you posted? TIA
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)'cause we just can't have enough of those.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)In spite of what you assert:
"the vast majority of Sanders supporters are rational, committed, fair and knowledgeable - most of the ones that I know personally certainly are"
but you start another negative thread about Sanders supporters...perhaps you aren't aware of how many have been posted here since the primaries started?
"I consistently argue that people should not blame entier groups for the bad behavior of a few"
while you start a whole thread to do just that
"I am quite sure that I will be viciously attacked for saying all of this"
characterizing the offense expressed by those you've offended as "vicious." Again, wow.
I suppose now I have to point out that being offended by the hypocrisy in this post is not a "vicious" attack.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)So there's no need for you to object to it since it's not directed to you . . .
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Apparently you, along with a whole bunch of other people in the last 6 months or so, start whole threads on internet discussion boards about a tiny minority; threads which are for everyone to read, interpret, and comment on.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)I feel you. I tried to get this point across once too and have the scars to prove it. Many people have. Oh well....
There ARE actually some great Sanders supporters here with interesting views. I learn REAL facts from their posts and gain insight from their point of view. But it is hard to separate out from the hue and cry of the mob.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)NOTHING is working.
LOLLL