2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI saw a comment online somewhere yesterday that cracked me up.
Some young guy saying he wasn't interested in Hillary Clinton because she reminded him too much of his MOTHER.
Well guess what, young guy: since I've been your age, I've been looking at candidates that reminded me of my father. Or grandfather. Or uncle. Or brother.
For the first time EVER, there is a real possibility that young men might have to swallow the idea of a President who reminds them of their mother.
Deal with it.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I'm no where near being in the 1%. I'd probably say I'm probably closer to the bottom of the wealth scale. But thanks for showing your concern. I know with you it's coming straight from the heart.
Cha
(297,655 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)So if Joan had run we should have voted for her?
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)There are some deep-seated cultural issues with regards to older women, including all kinds of mommy issues. I suspect some of that lurks beneath the surface of a lot of Hillary hate.
I know in academia the way in which male and female professors' student feedback is looked at, differs, because they found that students rated their female profs far more harshly. Students are more inclined to see male profs are "brilliant" and female profs as "shrill" or not motherly enough (but if the profs are motherly, then they don't get respect either, so it's a bit of a no-win game). I think we're seeing stuff like that being played on the national stage.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)When I was in my 50's I was a free lance consultant. When I started there with several young men, I felt like the interviewers were hostile, still I got hired. when I got a better offer and was leaving one female manager who was not born when I began programming called me into the office. She said when I was being interviewed she did not want them to hire me, because it would be like having your mother work for you. She didn't think she could order me around, but it worked out fine. I found it odd because she did not have a problem with the older men consultants, just me. I guess it was not like ordering your father around, I don't understand it but see it as a problem.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)So the bias affects young people of both genders.
keithbvadu2
(36,906 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)None of the three has been claiming that any of them have "atrocious" foreign and domestic policies.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)just look at Cheney.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)as the candidate is a woman? No other requirements needed?
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Presidents who look like their fathers, grandfathers, uncles, and brothers.
Now men might have to deal with a President who reminds them of their mothers.
Get used to it.
That is NOT a reason to exclude Hillary or any other women -- as this young man seemed to think.
SunSeeker
(51,697 posts)question everything
(47,534 posts)I hope it is not the same person..
tecelote
(5,122 posts)Hillary says we can't afford Bernie's proposals to improve America but we can afford regime change in the Middle East?
I'll gladly vote for the first women President who has compassion for the people in this world.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)We were at a lecture and the speaker mentioned that men might be uneasy about women leaders because they remind them of their mothers (Hillary being one example). At which point, my friend said to me"It might bother white men that way, but in a lot of black communities it's the moms that get things done. So, a woman in charge says to a lot of us that things are in good hands and going to get taken care of. We'd feel good about having a leader who reminds us of our mother."
Up till then, I too, had only considered the dissonance between male/female perspective on female leaders.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)There is not candidate in my life time that reminds me of my father. Or grandfather. Or uncle, or brother, or nephew.
Not one. My father was a better man than any politician.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)They had that in common with every other President for more than 2 hundred years.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)They had no individual aspirations
hopes and dreams
ignorance or wisdom
expansiveness of heart
generosity towards strangers friends and neighbors
heroes or humble
brave and true
duplicitous or honest.
Nope just white men. To be shoved in a folder as white men.
Truly. Obama and Bernie have more in common vis a vis their upbringing than either of them with Hillary's upbringing.
Class also matters.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)after she changed her views.
One of the people who had the greatest influence on her was the Methodist youth minister who took her in a group, when she was 14, to hear Dr. Martin Luther King speak.
During college she wrote her senior thesis about Saul Alinksky, the Marxist and activist, who was also an influence on her. And after Yale law school her first job was working for Marion Edelman of the Children's Defense Fund.
It isn't Hillary's fault that she was raised by a Republican father in a suburb of Chicago. What matters is what she's done with her life since then.
And she's accomplished a great deal since then -- as much as either of the men she's running against.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)If we could only have my uncle as president.
Or is it too soon after the Indian Wars?
George II
(67,782 posts)....comments, huh?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)of playing the gender card. "Someone" on line said something and it's off to the races again.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)...by Bernie supporters attacking poor Hillary for having lady parts.
Oh no-that would be hyperbole.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)...doesn't mean I didn't see it.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)I bet you wouldn't dream of using the phrase "playing the race card" on a Democratic board. But you're perfectly fine with saying "playing the gender card."
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)if that were the case. Look you started this post to push the meme that men in general and some Bernie supporters are misogynists and as proof offered an anonymous and out of context quote-for all we know it may have been from a humorous or satirical post. It's basically low-level shit stirring and I reject it.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)And I didn't say anything about Bernie. I just said that women have ALWAYS been dealing with father figures as President; and men need to get used to the idea of mother figures as President.
And angry, defensive reactions like yours -- accusing me of "playing the gender card" -- just prove my point.
http://www.mamamia.com.au/gender-and-politics-peta-credlin/
Its the sexists who are who are using their gender as an advantage. Theyre the ones using their gender to dominate, belittle and shame women. Sexists are using their gender to make sure that they hold on to their power and that women dont come and steal it.
When people are being sexist, THEY are playing The Gender Card.
They are throwing it down on the table and saying: Im the dominant gender and this is how its going to be.
When people call out sexism they are not making the situation suddenly sexist. A sexist outcome does not magically appear when you speak its name. The situation was already made that way by the sexists who are holding all the cards.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)They want a government free from the influence of corporations like Goldman-Sachs. They recognize that when big money donates to a candidate they expect quid pro quo.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)and men should get used to the idea of female Presidents.
Even if accomplished, mature women uncomfortably remind them of their mothers.
Men have held the monopoly for more than 200 years but they won't forever.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)was an O'Malley supporter.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)16,000,000 American children living in poverty. The 1%, like Goldman-Sachs cares only about profits and not our children.
This is a class war and the 1% and their lackeys don't care about anything but money.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)And that Hillary, who had a very progressive record during her term as Senator, has a better chance of winning the general and of getting progressive legislation through Congress.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)chance in the general. He may even bring in some moderate Republicon votes. Clinton will not be able to bring in all the Democratic voters and zero Republicons. The math favors Sanders. And remember the billionaires don't care if they get Clinton or Bush. Scary isn't it.
Clinton isn't progressive. She takes money from the billionaires in spite of saying she doesn't approve of Citizens United. Her hawkish foreign policies are not progressive. Her stands on fracking, student loans, reinstatement of Glass-Steigall, job killing "Free Trade" agreements, arctic drilling, not raising the cap on SS, medical marijuana, are not progressive. She came late to the side of same sex marriage and has taken money from Prisons for Profit. She has taken money from corporations like Goldman-Sachs to bolster her personal wealth. She is not a progressive.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)They are likely to have significantly higher turnout for Hillary.
And they were the groups that put Obama over the top in 2012. White men and white women went for Romney.
And Hillary is progressive. Her Senate voting record overall put her among the most progressive.
And I don't know why you think Rethugs would vote for Bernie but not Hillary, since you claim she isn't a progressive. I'm sure some mature Rethug women -- who were left by their party years ago -- will be happy to cast their first Democratic votes for Hillary. I know some myself.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)...you'll become part of THIS conversation rather than the one you're in but the rest of us are not.
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Love it! So very, very true.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Response to pnwmom (Original post)
JackInGreen This message was self-deleted by its author.
riversedge
(70,299 posts)Hillary for Iowa Retweeted
Ashley Burns ?@ashleyburns316 Dec 19 Cedar Rapids, IA
Sister's back in town. @HillaryClinton crushed the #DemDebate. #ImWithHer but so is my sister. #SistersForHillary
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9:47 PM - 19 Dec 2015 · Details
Hillary for Iowa Retweeted
Emma Laurent ?@enlaurent Dec 19 Dubuque, IA
17 mil Americans now have health care because of the #ACA...let's continue to build on it @HillaryClinton #ImWithHer #DemDebate
9 retweets 16 likes
Hillary for Iowa Retweeted
Lily Adams ?@adamslily Dec 19
Just gonna leave this one here --> Elizabeth Warren Shows Support for Hillary Clintons Wall Street Plan http://nyti.ms/1SJrPGt #DemDebate
View summary
98 retweets 78 likes
Spencer Dixon ?@SpencerFDixon Dec 19
I'm proud to work for a campaign that is supported by:
*96% of donations under $250
*A majority of donors that are women
37 retweets 49 likes
Hillary for Iowa ?@HillaryforIA Dec 19 Des Moines, IA
Hillary has a plan to hold Wall Street accountable that is tough, comprehensive, and praised by lead economists ? http://hrc.io/WallStreet