I just see such a double standard since I am sure if anyone started posting the kinds of things over there that you guys post over here about Bernie, they would be gone in a heartbeat. But I guess you can't see that, can you?

A lot of yarble garble and not much substance.

And I must admit that you do a great job of not answering the questions, and instead trying to discredit me by calling what I posted rage!

None.

Some here seem to think those I addressed, the tarsiers and bashers, are a "large" portion of DU, but they are not. Most of Bernie's supporters are not trashing and bashing on a daily basis, it's only a small number of trouble makers that are doing that.

from folks who probably got smacked on the ass by what you said in your OP. And know it.

How is it supporting Bernie to trash the other candidates with right wing talking points?

It doesn't matter. Hey! Did you know that Vince Foster is back?

Could have even been a freeper in disguise. He kept indicating he was "far left", as if he was trying to convince himself.

It was pretty sick to post right wing crap like that here on DU.

None of my business.

I think both sides are kind of nasty in regard to these type things, but I don't visit either site.

I wish they'd keep that garbage to themselves. Perhaps they should join together to make a site just to argue with each other instead of all the behind the back stuff.

Apparently there is a Bernie site and a Hillary site.

According to the denizens of both, they spend their time slamming DU and DUers.

I just can't be arsed about it.

I dont see any posts on JPR slamming DU.

and a very good mirror Andy.

Care to show me a link to any post I have made trashing Bernie, or Hillary? I will be waiting for your reply, but won't hold my breath.

No pretty much every post you make is a screed against Bernie supporters.

I stated it was those who only want to bash and trash.

So the intent of your OP was benign. Harmony and Happy Holidays and all of that.

Sometimes I wonder how I have made 12 years on this website with out writing an OP that actively disses a large portion of the posters here. Of course I have tangled with folks. It's the internets. But I just do not see this kind of thing helpful at all.

JMHO

Enjoy your Holidays.

Those I am talking about are NOT a large portion of DU. Those doing the trashing and bashing are not "all" of Bernie's supporters. The trash and bash crowd are a small number. Do you really think that the vast majority of Bernie supporters trash and bash?

You can try and paint this as me bashing "ALL" those who support Bernie, but you are wrong, and if you read my post OP you can see that.


You enjoy your holidays also.

Trashing and bashing the candidates and I have asked how that supports Bernie and helps him get elected, and yet nobody has answered that for me, could you?

And no my posts are not a "screed" against Bernie supporters. I have said many times, in this thread alone, it's about those who trashing and bash, and I have said that that is not the majority of Bernie's supporters, but a "SMALL" group of them. I also have said there are trouble makers in both sides of this, not just one. You really should try reading my posts again.

focus your concern on HRC supporters?

I would be most grateful.

TIA.

Numerous times I have said there are trouble makers on BOTH sides of this right on this very thread. If I see someone post a right wing smear on Bernie I would say the same thing. If they posted a right wing cartoon, I would say the same things, they would be trashing and bashing and it would be wrong. I have also voted on juries where someone, usually a new poster, has crossed the line when going after Bernie, and I voted to hide the post.

What seems to be hard for some here to understand is I am NOT calling out ALL of Bernie's supporters, only the small group that have made it a habit of trashing and basing on a daily basis.

Cha where I have said anything close to the vile things that you have posted about HRC and President Clinton. Want some links? Yeah they are from 2008 but you won't find anything from me negative about either of them from back then either.

So if you want a reminder of your thoughts on HRC just say the word.

What's the fun in being in a space were one can't gain attention by blowing things up?

but damn, wouldn't it be nice if folks did exactly what Andy's OP suggested? I can dream, can't I?

Makes life very nice indeed.

There are ways to be happy, if you look inside.

What I find amazing is why O'Malley supporters make the argument that Sanders supporters should shut up or stay away. Do you WANT the rift in the party to grow even wider?

It's those who "trash and bash" daily I have a problem with. If you aren't one of them, the post was not meant for you.

If that's what you prefer, then perhaps you should spend your time in the Hillary group or that Hillary supporters website.

I am not a member of the Hillary group, I support O'Malley, and I have since day one.

No I have never said you can't criticize Hillary. What I have said is "trashing and bashing" does not help get Bernie elected. I have said that the group that does that is a "small" group, not every single supporter of Bernie. I think we need real discussions on the candidates and their agenda to fix the problems we face. However posting right wing talking points, or cartoons like the one someone posted yesterday from a right wing group, has nothing to do with actual debate on the issues. I also have asked, but have not yet received a reply, now bashing and trashing actually helps get Bernie elected. Maybe you could help out and explain it to me?

For the record:

1. I don't hate Hillary Clinton. I don't like her. I never have. She lost me in the 90s when she quoted Tammy Wynette...dishonestly. I respect her intelligence, and I respect her as a fellow human being. I always have. That's not hate. It is certainly opposition to the possibility of her becoming POTUS. It's not hate, and to classify it as such is as dishonest as she was when she said, "You know, I'm not sitting here – some little woman standing by my man like Tammy Wynette."

2. I found the other site. I was thrilled to do so, because there are a bunch of great people there who aren't here any more, and I can still interact with them. It's interesting that you should object to the site's stated determination to treat people well. You suggest that they, that we, don't do that here. Yet, each day when I check in at DU, the posts attacking supporters of a candidate, rather than the candidates themselves, are overwhelmingly directed towards Sanders supporters. Just like this one. Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

3. DU isn't really "slanted" towards HRC; as a matter of fact, way more DUers support other candidates. It's true, of course, that HRC is the establishment candidate, and certainly the candidate of DU's establishment. Skinner made no secret of that. The numbers, though, suggest that the establishment is in the minority.

4. It's a campaign. The more that the establishment attacks, patronizes, disdains; the more failed attempts at establishment bullying, the more push back that establishment, and their candidate, is going to get. Personally, I prefer to attack the opposing candidate rather than her supporters. I think that's the way it should be. I know it's frustrating for HRC supporters, since they have very little to work with in attacking Sanders, while their own candidate offers up so much for the opposition to work with. Still, you won't find me having much to say at all about HRC here, because she simply isn't significant enough to me to do so. The most you'll probably find, with an extensive search, is what I wrote here, plus what I had to say about her most recent debate performance.

What really has you ranting, Andy823? That Sanders supporters don't like Hillary, or that there are so many of us, or that we're experiencing a bit of deja vu from '08, or that your own candidate isn't gaining traction, or?

If you read what I posted I mention those who "ONLY" want to bash and trash. I know that not all of Bernie's supports fall into that group. I appreciate all those who support Bernie who don't just come on the board to trash and bash.

What has me ranting is that theres is a group here who could only trash and bash president Obama, the party, and anyone who disagrees with their point of view. I actually like Bernie and he is my 2 choice if O'Malley drops out. I have no problem with people supporting Bernie, only problem I have is with people who ONLY trash and bash.

I still think O'Malley has a chance, but I don't come on this board and trash Bernie or Hillary every day, that's not the way to support him, and I won't do it. As I said I only have a problem with those who can't seem to find anything to post other than right wind talking points. From what you posted you don't seem to fit in that group, so I was not addressing this post towards you.

The link? I have no idea what the OP is referring to.

Some of those reasons - the banks are her biggest contributors as well is the private prison industry, she's supported mandatory minimum sentencing, three strike laws, capital punishment, as SOS she supported Keystone and didn't explicitly condemn it until it was obvious there was way to much opposition to it, she helped write TPP.

These are honest, real concerns and should be for all Democrats and progressives, even those who are pro-Hillary.

I've seen as many Hillary supporters say they will not support Bernie as I have Bernie supporters say they willnot support Hillary.

If Hillary somehow gets the nod at the Convention - I will wholeheartedly support her. As would 99% of Bernie supporters in the Democratic Party.

Please don't add to the GOP like dissension that seems to be welling up here on DU.

Did you see the right wing cartoon that posted yesterday about Hillary? As I stated in my post it's those who ONLY trash and bash everyday I have a problem with. I have seen some of the Hillary supporters who say they won't support Bernie, be to be honest there are a whole to more who say they support Bernie who also say they WILL not vote for Hillary. I also have never seen anyone promoting that people write in Hillary's name if Bernie wins the nomination, but have seen that from those who claim to be supporting Bernie.

I also have mentioned before that I think there are trouble makers on both sides of this issue, but I have noticed that the vast majority of new posters who come here start out from day one bashing Hillary and I can't help but wonder why that is?

I joined JPR, I am an ENTHUSIASTIC supporter of Bernie, I LOVE President Obama, and I don't HATE Hillary. I have even defended her here on DU several times during and since the debate. I just prefer Bernie and/or Martin O'Malley over HRC.

Read my post again. I and talking to those who "trash and bash" on a daily basis. Not everyone who supports Bernie does that, and I have stated that many times. I think it's great to have the other board. My problem is that I just can't see how bashing Hillary, or any other candidate, on a daily basis is supporting that candidate. Did you see the right wing cartoon posted yesterday about Hillary? I think that people can talk about the issues, the good and bad points of each candidate without smearing them, and using right wing sites to link to, don't you?

stay at the site they created to get away from here? hillaryclintonsupporters.com

Why don't they stay in the Hillary Clinton Group? Why do they post in the Bernie Sanders Group, alert on posts in the Bernie Sanders group?

Why are you lurking at the other Sanders site, then coming back here to trash it?

Why don't YOU stay wherever you think you belong?

One poster in particular (not a Clinton supporter) will just keep copying and pasting their posts from there as screen shots here over and over again. So even if they are over there - and stay over there -


A Sanders supporter could be subjected to that same post over and over again at DU.

Oh - and over and over again.

as I don't know what you're referring to (whose posts from where? who's over where?) But I'll just take your word for whatever... I know there are always some people.

Did Skinner die and leave you in charge?

Last edited Wed Dec 23, 2015, 06:04 PM - Edit history (1)

To check it out. I did not sign up, and I would not go there and bash Bernie, just like I won bash Hillary. That's not the way to support them. I am not a member of the Hillary group, and I have only post once, I believe, on the Bernie Sanders board, and that got me banned, not for saying anything bad about Bernie but because I asked Manny a question when he posted about getting people to show up at a Hillary event and "protest" it. I asked if you would be there to lead them, and that got me banned.

I also did not come back her to "bash" the other site, but to ask why all those who bash and trash Hillary everyday, but say they don't hate her, still come back her to continue that "bashing and trashing". If I knew someone from here was going over there and bashing and trashing Bernie, I would also call them out. Many times I have posted that there are trouble makers on both sides of this trashing and bashing. If you are not one of those people, then I was not addressing anything towards you.

but statements like "The 'anti' everything group, the ones who bashed the president, the party, any democrat that didn't thin their way" sounds like a bash. And suggesting that if they don't stay on their own site, it's because they HATE Hillary, sounds like trashing, as does comparing them to "right wing trolls" and saying they make Bernie look bad with their "terrible" example.

Do you think you're just pointing out the obvious and the truth? Do you think you need all those loaded words, exaggerations and suppositions just "to ask why"? Anti everything? Really? Disappointment with Obama for appointing conservatives is RW trollish? Anger at Rahm Emanual for calling liberals "fucking retarded" is wrong? You're doing your own bashing, then acting all innocent.

What looks like "trashing and bashing" to YOU, is often just pointing out the truth about Hillary. Listing Hillary's flip-flops is pointing out verifiable truth, not bashing. To call criticism bashing and hatred is a sneaky way of demonizing it, and making it appear unjustified.

It may be more productive if you called out the members of the "small group" to which you're referring when & where they post, rather than writing an all-encompassing thread about Bernie supporters who post in two different websites (as is their right!). Then everyone will know exactly what you mean by "trashing and bashing," and who you're referring to, and what cartoon you're talking about, etc., instead of these vague far-flung accusations.

!

there who say they hardly post here, they're not coming back, they're done with DU but I still see them posting every day.

There have been many websites started by disgruntled DUers and they all have failed. Not expecting any different of this one.

Usually they start off by letting members bash DU to get it out of their system, but they never do get the DU bashing out of their system and when the Admins try shutting down those conversations they lose members. So at least this one started off with discouraging DU bashing (though there is quite a bit of snide remarks that are allowed).

Simply stating a question about those who trash and bash here on a daily basis.

Get over your self.

I have made here on DU that was bashing any of the other candidates.. I have never done that. I pointed out that some say they do not "hate" Hillary, yet they come here day after day to trash and Bash her. How is that doing the same thing? I like Bernie and he is my second choice, but I fail to see how trashing and bashing helps support him. Maybe you could tell me?

You know people can't track specific members.

Last edited Wed Dec 23, 2015, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

that is all...

The split here is roughly 80/20 in Bernie's favor.

Yet the number of these kinds of "bashing" posts between Clinton and Sanders supporters are pretty much even. Why? Because, on average, each of Clinton's supporters produce roughly four times as many of these slanderous posts as Sanders supporters do.

We don't hate Hillary. We just believed her when she plead guilty to being a moderate, and we don't want a moderate as our nominee.

You honestly think Bernie's supporters should go to another site and leave this one to the Hillary supporters?

Why don't you go stay on some other site instead of trying to take over the one where you are in a rather small minority? Expecting the 80% to leave so that the 20% can have this site is exactly the kind of thinking we don't want our leaders to have. Although, it does give insight into why you so strongly support Hillary.




P.S. I don't think Hillary supporters should leave this site. I was just pointing out how selfish that part of your post was.

Point out her voting record, point out differences, I have no problem with that. It's the constant right wing talking points I see, links from right wing articles, and yesterday a cartoon from a right wing site. Did you see that cartoon? Not the kind of thing one would expect so see on a board for democrats.

I never sai I wanted anyone to leave, but here has been a very vocal group around here who feel that DU is being unfair towards them, and they also "trash and bash" daily. Why can't people discuss and debate without throwing in right wing talking points. My point was if those on the other board are trying to support Bernie, why come here and trash and bash? How is daily trashing of onc or our candidates helping Bernie?

We don't want that kind of thing here either.


There are posts here about Bernie calling him everything from a gun nut to a pacifist. There are posts claiming that he misused funds and funneled money to his family members.

There have been lots of posts bashing him ever since "datagate" broke. Most of these parrot DWS's account of things and ignore what the tech company itself said happened.


I will rephrase what I have already said. Since these types of posts are roughly even on both sides and because there are roughly four times as many Bernie supporters here.... Bernie supporters are roughly four times less likely to post something like this compared to Hillary supporters.

I only saw one or two Bernie supporters condemn it. I also have stated numerous times on this very thread that it's not ALL of those who support Bernie I am talking about. It's a small group who constantly post right wing crap and trash and bash every single day. I have also stated, again on this thread, that their are trouble makers on both sides.

I will however have to disagree with you about the trashing and bashing being equal. The trash and bash group has been at it since president Obama was elected, and they simply have changed to bashing Hillary now instead of Obama. Now I will agree that the majority of Bernie supporters do NOT trash and bash. I have even started a thread applauding those who don't drop to that level.

The only reason I went to the new site was because some here kept posting it in their post telling people to check it out, so I did. I have never seen anyone do that with the site you refer to.

How about "astonishing", "shocking", "wondrous", "mind-boggling", "interesting", fascinating", "boring", "amusing"?

Last edited Thu Dec 24, 2015, 07:20 PM - Edit history (1)

i said I found it amazing that those who say they don't hate her, yet bash her day after day here on DU now have a site especially for those who want to get Bernie elected, yet they come back here and trash and bash. I also have stated, numerous times, it's only the "trash and bash" group I am talking about, not all of Bernie's supporters. That group is a "small" segment, not the majority.

I also keep asking how trashing and bashing other candidates helps get Bernie elected, but so far nobody has bothered to tell me. Would you care to explain that to me?

Scrutinizing and comparing the candidates, whether called bashing and trashing, or criticizing and praising, can be helpful to getting your preferred candidate elected.

I don't "hate" Hillary I just think that she's unfit to hold public office based on her record and statements.

DU RULES!

...keep coming back here to unload on Bernie Sanders supporters? Why do they have hidden private forums where they can say whatever they like -- we've seen what kind of things they like saying, but they didn't like those things coming out publicly so they made themselves a nice little hidden lair.

You should not concern yourself with where others post. They can post anywhere they damned well like, and they can post here too as long as they are in good standing. Deal with it.

I asked why some say the "don't hate Hillary", yet continue to come here and bash her on a daily basis instead of actually trying to support Bernie on the new site. I ask that because for some reason I can't figure out how bashing and trashing other candidates helps get Bernie elected. Mays be you can explain that for me?

But if they hate DU so much, have their own site now to support Bernie, then why do those who constantly say they "don't" hate Hillary keep coming back here to trash and bash her? How is all this trashing and bashing helping to get Bernie elected? And once again i will say that it's not ALL of Bernie's supporters, but a small group that does nothing but bash and trash on a daily basis. The vast majority of Bernie supporters here do NOT do that, only one group that has made trashing and bashing president Obama, the party, any democrat in office who does not agree with them, and now they have taken on Hillary. Do you honestly think that ll the trashing and bashing is helping get Bernie elected?

aren't looking too good for your guy and really never have.

K&R

My spelling? Maybe you could answer my question about how coming here and trashing other candidates helps get Bernie elected? Care to give it a try?

A whole lot of folks who have been tombstoned. Folks whose writing & insight I enjoy. I will keep posting on DU because it is my home base, as it were.
I have noticed that this silly season anything not totally complimentary to Hillary is "bashing", even pointing out facts that are inconvenient.
I have also noticed Hillary supporters love posting multiple threads daily on how Bernie is unelectable, or the inevitable threads demanding oaths of fealty to her should she win. Gets tiresome, but that is why the ignore feature exists.
Cheers,
peacebird

What I see here - every time something positive is posted about Sanders there are Clinton supporters rushing to be first to the thread to trash it.

And a lot of personal attacks as well.

it must fill a void or something