Has Bernie objected to the company being used in the audit?

It's interesting how his supporters are trying to conjure up some kind of conspiracy against Bernie with no proof.

The findings haven't even been released yet.

Way too much tinfoil to go around.

read it

Neither Sanders nor his campaign has objected to the auditor. The fact that some Sanders supporters want to misread the materials and make this objection for the Sanders campaign is fine but no one is going to care unless and until the Sanders campaign or Sanders himself actually raises this objection

Last edited Thu Dec 24, 2015, 06:10 PM - Edit history (2)

that does NOT say that Sanders "agreed to Kroll as the auditor"?

As this OP points out, this is a lie, unless you have a quote from Sanders
saying he's agreed to Kroll.

If the company conducting the audit is so nefarious, why hasn't Bernie said anything?

Bernie supporters are preemptively complaining....if the independent audit finds wrongdoing by Bernie's campaign, Bernie supporters already have their excuses ready.

Too funny.

"...never objected to the company carrying out the audit"

That is not in evidence. Link, please?

You have proof, please provide it. I will gladly self-delete.

Otherwise, you are making things up.

He agreed to audit. Are there any quotes where he even voiced some misgivings about the company doing it?

..?. If bernie has objections to the chosen auditor he would make those objections public. Since he hasn't made any objections public, then it is reasonable to presume that he has no such objections.

Honestly, I think bernie can handle this himself . I don't think he needs your help. At least wait for him to ask for it.

"....why hasn't Bernie said anything?"

How do you know he hasn't?

FAIL

If you have this information about Sanders please give it to us.

This whole thing is so ridiculous. Why can't they just accept that the Sanders campaign did something wrong? It's not some grand conspiracy against the campaign by the DNC, DWS, the Clinton campaign, Kroll or whoever else.

it will be why wrongdoing by the Hillary camp was not found that the Bernie people are worried about. One of the two;Bernie has a reputation of honesty. One of the two, does not.

agreeing to exactly how it will be realized in practice.

It's interesting how Hillarians suspend or ignore logic and reason in their quest to...

has the resources to burn and no conscience.

Seemed pretty clear. The article went on to say they did not get Sanders response to this.

in it's tracks asap.

Will he go conspiracy theory or give it his backing. He has simply left message far too often over the last week. This isn't a tactic that converts voters, it's a red meat move. What we often call throwing his base a bone. I can see it motivating a small percentage of younger voters out but it won't appeal to the masses.

Have you not seen these OPs? ... or are you choosing to simply ignore the facts?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=89824
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251943486
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251943510
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251943486

Kroll, the DNC/DWS and HRC are ALL cut from the same billionaire-class cloth, with
ties to the Bush Crime Family, et. al.

everything they don't like or want to be checked out is a "conspiracy theory" And no one would want to be accused of that now would they? move along, nothing to see here.

unlimited resources and not afraid to use them. Also, they have no consciences. This is a class war and the wealthy are not about to lose. But lose they will. The People are fed up with the corruption of our government.

There's a history to their determination.

I look forward to hearing Bernie's take on this mess.

It has been my understanding that Kroll audits are designed to benefit the company buying the audit, kind of like Auther Anderson did.

for whoever ponies up the big bucks to "make it happen".

In case you missed any of these other OP's on Kroll:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=89824
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251943486
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251943510
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251943486

You can't pull off this nonsense with social media informing millions.

This in your face foolishness will backfire every time.

Lots of Hillary supporters running around with their hair on fire
working hard to "catapult the propaganda".

Any results found that don't exonerate Sanders campaign COMPLETELY or show that "Hillary did it tooooooooooo" will be ignored.

You've got that right.

absolutely correct. Because her poll numbers dropped 12 points.

Take a hard look at that article that is being cited--it was posted on the 18th of December.

It's Xmas Eve--nearly a WEEK later.

If he had any objections, surely he would have voiced them by now.

And if he had objections and didn't voice them, well, that's some lousy leadership right there.

He's known who is doing the auditing for many days, now--and not a peep out of him or his campaign. I think the "Waah, Bad Auditor" dog will not hunt. "Technically" or otherwise.

well none except to argue from silence, which is what you are doing.

The fact that we do not know, is no reason so assert that Bernie has "agreed" to anything yet,
except for an independent audit, which Kroll is incapable of doing by virtue of it's history, it's
previous ties to the DNC and Clinton, , not to mention it's reputation as a corporate "fixer" to
"prove" whatever the highest bidder wants to plant into the public consciousness, and not to
mention it's ties to the Bush Crime Family.

Team Bernie is probably waiting to see what, if anything, the "discovery" evidence shows, before
agreeing to WHO the auditor is, and/or to give Team Clinton more rope, or both.

... (which is doubtful), there will be a discovery process - during which documents are requested/exchanged by both sides, witnesses are deposed, etc.

That process usually takes months, at best - in some cases, it takes years.

The audit is a completely different animal - and Bernie isn't in any position to delay the audit, or withhold agreement to the auditor chosen, on the basis of waiting for a pending lawsuit to complete discovery. One has nothing to do with the other; they are separate procedures, neither reliant on the outcome of the other.

I don't doubt that typically a discovery process can become a protracted -- months or years long -- process.

However, in this case (depending on the judge, of course) given the time sensitiveness and the national and international import of this lawsuit, it would not surprise me AT ALL if the process is expedited to proceed in a
much more timely manner, in accordance the urgent demands of this very unique situation.

I agree the lawsuit and the audit are are "separate procedures", but it's a huge leap to claim these are "completely separate procedures" that "have nothing to do" with each other. That is an absurd presumption, very much in keeping with fans of Her Presumptuousness, but these two processes are inextricably intertwined and may potentially influence one another very much.

For example: as I pointed out, a judge may expedite discovery, and who knows what that will reveal; and/or Bernie's attorneys could justifiably challenge the "independent" nature of a Kroll audit as part of the lawsuit ... and so on. To assert these two processes have absolutely nothing to do with each other is an gross overstatement.

Just because they deal with matters that may overlap, they are separate processes.

How expeditiously the discovery process in a lawsuit proceeds is up to the parties involved. Either side can effectively drag out the process for months - or years.

Eg: You can't stop the IRS from auditing your tax returns on the basis that you're suing your accountant for incompetence in filing your returns correctly, and therefore they have to wait for the outcome of that lawsuit before proceeding with their audit. Despite your tax obligations being the subject matter of BOTH, an audit and a lawsuit are still separate procedures.

That fact is not a matter of presumption - it is a matter of law.

... for 30+ years now. I am not speculating - I am telling you how the law works.

Should Bernie's lawsuit proceed, by the time the discovery process was completed - along with the inevitable legal wranglings over that process - the Democratic nominee will have been declared. In fact, more likely than not, the GE will be over.

That's why I said it is doubtful his lawsuit will proceed. By the time it sees a courtroom, the point will be moot.

I believe Team Bernie knows what they are doing, and have done nothing
to be ashamed of, save the minor over-reach of a few staff.

And I'm content to let this play out however it plays out, however "sewed-up"
you apparently think Her Presumptuousness has everything hard-wired in her
favor, thanks to her "connectedness" to all the wrong people & corporations.

And I feel "honored" -- in a weird kind of way -- that you feel so compelled to
came out of the woodwork on Christmas Eve to challenge my observations. I'm
pretty much done for the night, as I am spending time with loved ones in
observance of Christmas Eve until tomorrow.

Happy Holidays.

I merely pointed out to you the realities of how the law works.

Your "observations" are one thing, as are your opinions - but they don't change established legal processes.



And Happy Holidays to you, as well!

It took two long and winding years (and one month, and nine days or so) to get a conviction of a defendant who killed a relative of mine with a motor vehicle. The Law moves like molasses!

The Wheels of The Gods Grind Slowly, don't they?

... that the judicial system works like a Law & Order episode, where everything wraps up in an hour - and there's still time for commercials.

I've been on cases where the discovery phase lasted over two years. Documents are requested to be produced - and refused by one side or the other. That means going before a judge over every disputed document, every refusal to produce a witness to be deposed, every question asked in examination that a lawyer refused to allow his client to answer on the basis of irrelevance or over-reach - or the classic "fishing expedition".

Given the complexities of the case at-hand, expert witnesses would be retained by both sides to explain how the data breach could have happened - and once you get into dueling experts, who often say the exact opposite of what the expert witnesses on the "other side" have said - it becomes a quagmire of motions that can drag on forever.

Should Bernie's lawsuit proceed - which I sincerely doubt - we may very well have elected a new POTUS before that lawsuit ever goes to trial.

Well, I'm preaching to the choir here - you already have firsthand knowledge of how slowly these things move along. And yet there are people here who think the proverbial "smoking gun" will be found within a matter of hours, and this lawsuit would be wrapped-up before the credits roll - as seen on TV!

the auditor is for a week now, and they haven't said a word about it.

They've zipped their lip, they're thunderstruck, and they haven't protested a perceived injustice.

Yeah, sure.

Here's another scenario--this agency is capable of doing the job and has demonstrated an ability to do the work.

Ever hear the saying "Silence implies consent?" After a week, it does more than IMPLY.

The Sanders campaign is free to hire their own independent auditor to work alongside this one. Haven't seen them shelling out for that, either--probably because they already KNOW what the results will be.

You got one thing right though, Kroll "capable of doing the job" alright i.e. "fixing" the
data to favor Her Presumptuousness, and covering their tracks while doing it.

the DNC's agent, if he'd like.

Thing is, this is all pretty much cut-and-dried stuff. Either the intrusions are there, or they are not.

I think Sanders just wants to get past this ugly bit of business. He knows his people cheated, and he felt badly enough about it to apologize. I think his "supporters" are doing him a disservice by not following his lead, frankly.

I don't see any "Kroll Whining" coming out of his campaign at all. Not a peep. You'd think, if the BS crew was concerned, truly, they WOULD pipe up and mobilize their supporters--yet they're doing the opposite. The more the rank and file crab, the more they have NOTHING to say.

which is exactly why I don't believe he has "agreed" to Kroll being qualified
to do an "independent" audit; given their ties to Clintons and the DNC, not
to mention their reputation as a corporate "fixer", spooks-for-hire to "prove"
whatever their client wants to 'prove'. Oh and did I mention their unseemly
ties to the Bush Crime Family?

We shall see how this pans out, between Christmas and New Years I would
guess. Until we know more, all we're doing is surmising and guessing,
without much evidence either way.

public affairs team in the history of electoral politics, that doesn't think to read all the articles about the candidate and his issues, and completely MISSED the Big News that this company was hired, or that he's trying to play some convoluted (and stupid, frankly) "rope a dope" routine where he lets them do the audit, lets them present their findings, and then says "Ah HA!! But I don't like them because (insert list of conspiracy theory words/phrases)."

The time to gripe is BEFORE the auditors begin their work, not after they've finished it.

They're doing the work right now.

And Bernie has been Awfully Quiet.

You want a theory? Here's one that resonates based on simple observation:

He knows his people fucked up Big Time. He's embarrassed. He feels they compromised his "Brand." He already knows what the auditors will find. He wants this Over With--ASAP.

His staff is following his lead.

His supporters, though--they haven't picked up on the vibe!

nominated. They have the billions to spend. Money is nice but I choose principles.

it is natural for his supporters to lash out and look for conspiracy theories to explain the reason why the candidate fails to catch on.

It doesn't help the candidate, though. It makes a tough situation worse, to be blunt.

Oligarchy. All Democrats should agree that we need to get big money out of politics.

Nice way to go about life

Not all of his "supporters" (and I use that word advisedly, because "some"--not all, just "some" of his "supporters" do a very poor job of "supporting" him) are following this tack. In fact, very few are. They aren't being egged on or encouraged by the official campaign either. That should cause actual supporters to consider what the campaign actually wants.

I don't think they want a heaping helping of Conspiracy Theory and convoluted suppositions. That's just my read--YMMV. I think my read is closer to what the Sanders campaign wants than some of the stuff I've read on the internet, though.

A lot of victims would disagree. Pick a crime.

.... on his behalf. I think it's safe to presume that if he has objections to the chosen auditor he would speak out publically. Since he hasn't, it's safe to presume he doesn't.

Bernie's a big boy. He can take care of himself.

The crime happened when Sanders' data team stole Clinton's data.

Sanders did speak up--he apologized to the victim of his staff's crime, and he apologized to his supporters for the behavior of his staff.

I think that is the point of the OP.

The DNC has been so heavyhanded in handling every issue, every plan, every organizational aspect of the primaries that we Sanders supporters have utterly no confidence in it.

Bernie has been giving speeches to audiences in IOWA at over a thousand people a speech. Who knows whether he has had a chance to respond to the DNC proposal?

Bernie is in demand. Poooooor Hillary! Her crowds are in the low hundreds. Bernie's -- over a thousand at a time.

If DUers knew Iowa like I know Iowa, those crowd numbers are amazing!

Bernie is a deal-maker. He is not going to just accept what the DNC pushes off on him.

That's one of the reasons he has so much support. He is a fighter. We feel we need someone who doesn't just accept the status quo that the powerful impose on us. It has become too difficult out here.

Watch Bernie's speeches. The biggest applause-getter is the student loan argument. Most of our families are affected negatively, very negatively by the student loan burden on our kids.

This article is from 2013:

he federal government made enough money on student loans over the last year that, if it wanted, it could provide maximum-level Pell Grants of $5,645 to 7.3 million college students.

The $41.3 billion profit for the 2013 fiscal year is down $3.6 billion from the previous year but it's a higher profit level than all but two companies in the world: Exxon Mobil cleared $44.9 billion in 2012, and Apple cleared $41.7 billion.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/25/federal-student-loan-profit/3696009/

The student loan revenue pays for things that should be paid for by raising the taxes on things like capital gains on stock sales and certain housing and on CEO salaries, very high salaries.

Instead, struggling young couples who have to pay for day care for their kids so that they can both work and repay student loans bear this enormous burden.

And since we have the 2005 revision of the bankruptcy code that makes it virtually impossible to discharge education debt or even anything that might be education debt or a student loan from bankruptcy, the pressure has built regarding the student loan issue.

We have Biden and members of Congress like Hillary as well as George W. Bush to thank for that revision of the bankruptcy code.

When you think about the ease with which corporations can erase their debt in Bankruptcy Court, the special provision about student loans is pretty disgusting.

How many times has Trump declared bankruptcy on his various business endeavors? And students are stuck with their loans and repaying debt on relatively low incomes?

Why Bernie is popular with the young. It's really not so hard to figure out.

Unless your kids didn't need student loans in the first place.

And this student loan crisis is hitting our best and brightest. Even if they get a full scholarship for undergrad work, in an increasing number of fields, they have to have a graduate degree to get a job. And graduate school can mean a lifetime of debt, especially if it is a professional school. It can mean choosing to never have children because you can't repay your student loans and raise children.

I hope you understand why Bernie is drawing the big crowds. This is a matter of survival for a lot of young people. It's hard enough just getting A job, much less trying to get a job that allows you to repay your student loans.

This is an issue that Congress needs to rethink. Ordinary people have taken a financial licking since 2008. It's sinking in that the situation won't improve if we keep rehiring the same folks for our leadership. Bernie is a great alternative to those same folks. Hillary is the epitome of the same folks. So is Jeb Bush on the Republican side.

Now, it's still most certainly "an event" as most candidate stops are--but he's not pulling in the mega-crowds anymore.

You want to hear what he has to say? Hurrah for YOUTUBE and you don't have to wait in line (though it is a cheap date).

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/10/18/bernie-sanders-uses-smaller-crowds-to-push-back-against-radical-label/?_r=0

http://vtdigger.org/2015/12/07/172507/

New Hampshire and a few other states right now.

That's my understanding.

He is doing very, very well.

The DNC is worried. That's why they went public with the absurd accusations about the Sanders' campaign and the NGP Van database.

Really dirty politics on the part of the DNC and possibly on the part of the Hillary campaign.

This kind of conduct by the DNC is completely alienating a lot of life-long Democrats like me.

I'm 100% behind Bernie. I will vote for all Democrats on my ballot --- but never for Hillary.

Her foreign policy in Libya and Syria has gotten us into worse trouble than we were before.

Her economic policy is half-measure and will not help the middle class, especially not the kids who owe enormous amounts in college debts. It won't help build jobs in America, rein in the too-big-to-fail banks or improve our justice system.

Bernie doesn't shoot from the hip.
That is why we seldom (never) see him forced to apologize for lying.

So a week, minus a 3 day holiday weekend,
schedule several meetings with the IT team and his small team of strategists,
and arrive with the best way to handle this situation,
then a day for a proper announcement.

No. a week isn't that long at all, IF one wants to Get-It-Right,
and, unlike that other candidate, Bernie is famous for getting it right the first time.

This firm was selected over a week ago.

He did 'get it right' this time--he apologized.

We don't know what has or hasn't been said behind closed doors.

What would be in it for him to make any concerns about this public? How many more votes do you think he gets by publicly airing concerns about the audit process? My guess, roughly zero. "Eye on the prize" and all of that.

This is the kind of "inside baseball" stuff that just distracts from his message. I think he would need a good reason to talk publicly about this stuff. If he has any concerns (and none of us know whether he does), to the extent that they can be addressed privately, so much the better. If history is any indicator, Sanders is pretty good at staying "on message" and avoiding distractions in his public communications.

have voiced them to his staff, who would have leaked them to his supporters, by now.

The fact that he hasn't done this tells me that he's content with the process, and if I had to guess, I'd say he wants to put this behind him and take care of the last few firings and move on.

There's been a ton of "inside baseball" on this subject already--much of it generated from people who say they are voting for Sanders in the primary. You can't convince them that they aren't helping him, though. This thread is a perfect example of trying to keep that ball in the air, the very ball it seems to me like he wants to put away.

He's already talked about this at the debate, and his discussion included two apologies.

I think he wants this in the rear view mirror, and there likely will be another shoe dropping, and he wants to step over that, too, I suspect, as quickly as he can manage, and move on.

when they "caught" him. He was collecting evidence.

In fact, he documented his actions.

Some how Jeff Weaver knew about something that happened in 2008. How did he find this information out? I have no doubt in my mind it is true, that the company had a data breech of some kind that led to someone in Hillary's staff to get information that they shouldn't have had. I am confident it is true, because the DNC caved the next day on holding Bernie's data.

the "selection", like it is above reproach or something

Like we are not supposed to notice ANY of the damning information revealed
in these OPs. Kroll is a corporatist "fixer", spooks-for-hire to "Prove" whatever
the highest bidder pays to 'prove'.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=89824
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251943486
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251943510
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251943486

I suppose BS and crew is supposed to just take it like they wouldn't.

It's unimaginable to me that Bernie would sign off on such a crew being the exclusive fact finders in this matter.

Bernie's team had the right to be in the database. I don't think they had any duty under criminal law to stay out of a database that was merged with or that opened up into their own.

I could be wrong. Are you thinking of a specific criminal statute that was violated?

I don't know of any, but I'm not knowledgeable about cyber-law to that extent.

Could you refer me to the criminal law that you think was violated?

Thanks.

They legally accessed their part of the database and since the firewall was down, Hillary's information was also made by the vendor to be accessible to them.

So that law does not apply. Bernie did not hack into Hillary's part of the website.

An investigation will show the extent to which the Bernie and Hillary information was completely or partially merged at the time of the "bug" in the NPG Van database that gave permission to Bernie's campaign to access Hillary's information.

That's why we need a truly independent investigation of the matter. What really happened? Who did what? Did Hillary's team take screen shots of some of Bernie's information? What really happened? And what happened in early "bugs" in software whether of NPG Van or not?

Let's get the whole story out there so we know what is really going on.

But I seriously doubt that this is a criminal matter at all.

There is no accusation of hacking.

The worst accusation I have heard is that a small amount of information may have been exported -- one page or something like that.

All the rest is just imagination. I base this on what I read on NPG Van's website. Not on hysteria in one primary campaign or the other.

Merry Christmas

you would try to determine just how much of it there was and why it was there, and that is what I think Bernie's campaign probably did.

The information and the schedule of searches were always in plain sight on the NGP Van database. One page was taken, and I think it was a list of the searches done. Nothing more.

The big damage in this affair is the damage to Bernie's campaign's reputation what with the DNC singlehandedly slinging misinformation and wild accusations at Bernie's campaign.

Apparently the DNC management does not understand how databases work.

It looks more and more to me like this incident will be reviewed by a court. I think a lot of Hillary supporters will be very embarrassed by the results of the court's inquiry.

ouch!!

As long as you are willing to accept criminal charges.

The Bernie campaign was given access to the Hillary files due to an admitted "bug" in NPC Van's software.

The searches that Uretsky made looked to me from the beginning to have been aimed to measure the kind and extent of data made available to Bernie's campaign. The saving of the lists will give all an idea of the data that the Hillary campaign could have obtained from Bernie's information.

Do you know of any statute that Bernie's campaign violated?

The vendor, NPG Van gave permission to Bernie's campaign to access Hillary's data. I don't see how accessing it with permission could be a crime.

What would be a crime would be if this were a planned taking of the information of one campaign by the other. Since Bernie's campaign has and had no control of influence with the management of the database, that is an absurd accusation.

On the other hand, the DNC and the Hillary campaign could have obtained Bernie's information this way because they could have had the influence to do have the "bug" strategically placed in the release.

I am not accusing Hillary's campaign of that, but it is more likely than that Bernie's campaign stole from Hillary.

And therefore more appropriate for this particular audit, as they are not already in bed
with the DNC & HRC, and have a less "spooky" reputation as a corporate "fixer" to "Prove"
whatever the highest bidder wants to palm-off as 'true'.

Paulie (7,655 posts)
9. I can think of 5 (more appropriate and as qualified auditors) right off the top of my head

Mandiant (now owned by FireEye) is the gold standard
Neohapsis (now owned by Cisco)
NTT Security
IBM
SecureWorks

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=944133

Want to reconsider the list?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251944787

MANDIANT was paid "Political Consulting Fees" by the DNC--that would set people a-screeching about bias right then and there.

http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/expenddetail.php?cmte=DNC&txt=Mandiant+Corp&cycle=2008

CISCO SYSTEMS has donated a bundle to a variety of DNC - favored candidates down the years:

https://www.opensecrets.org/usearch/index.php?q=CISCO+SYSTEMS&cx=010677907462955562473%3Anlldkv0jvam&cof=FORID%3A11&siteurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.opensecrets.org%2Fusearch%2F%3Fq%3DMANDIANT%26cx%3D010677907462955562473%253Anlldkv0jvam%26cof%3DFORID%253A11

NTT Security looks like it is more geared towards retail businesses than anything else--their cartoon-y web pages are not confidence inspiring:

http://www.ntt-security.com/

IBM--The junior Senator (Republican) from North Carolina is/was an IBM partner--I'm guessing he's not alone in that boardroom. Not a good fit for Democratic business, particularly since we know the GOP is without scruples.

The Sanders campaign isn't worried about the audit.

Thanks for the thread, grasswire.

The ONLY legitimate, acceptable alternative this bullshit so called objective audit would be an on-line, opt-in, internet poll!!

Now that would settle the issue to bernie's satisfaction !

There is only one source for that article and it is from a questionable news outlet.

The internet is filled with reports about Kroll and its ties to nefarious actions. Its deep associations are with Bushco's war profiteers and neo-cons. Kroll provided security for the WTC until 9/11. And Marvin Bush was a board member of an associated business entity.

Just google Kroll and Marvin Bush and you will start to unravel this stinking mess.

No Democratic entity should ever be involved with Kroll, and I'm wondering who set this up.

Funny how the "better" choices offered in this thread include two (at least) firms with close monetary ties to the RNC.


smh!

....with a spook-infested business with tight connections to Bushco and a reputation for thuggery-for-hire?

sMh

chops--that will be under close scrutiny--to do the work.

Sanders could hire a companion firm if he'd like. Why hasn't he?

We had a DUer mentioning IBM and Dell as 'likely' agencies to do this work--never mind that they're deep in the RNC's pockets.