2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders is a good man who needs better advisers
I've said repeatedly that I think Bernie Sanders is a good man with good ideas. However, I'm increasingly convinced that he needs better advisers. In recent days, his advisers have refused to put the data breach story away, and struck an all-encompassing defensiveness. Unfortunately, this resulted in Sanders himself on Meet The Press repeating that his campaign did not seek out Clinton's confidential data-- a claim that Politifact rated Mostly False.
Now, at least one of them seems to have elevated the data breach issue to moon-landing-hoax territory, apparently suggesting that fired staffer Josh Uretsky was a plant by the evil DNC or NGP VAN.
Story from Yahoo! Politics
According to the adviser, one of the references that Uretsky gave when he applied to work with the campaign was the DNCs National Data Director Andrew Brown, who works closely with the shared voter file program.
Andrew Brown spoke to us and gave him a positive review, as did this guy Bryan Whitaker, the adviser said.
...
Still, given what happened with the breach, the adviser suggested Browns recommendation of Uretsky could be evidence of a conspiracy.
I dont know how you can more centrally connect this thing than those two entities, the adviser explained. Here we are being attacked by both of those entities when, in fact, they recommended this guy to the campaign.
Now, to be fair, I can read these quotes to simply mean that it's unfair to attack the Sanders campaign for hiring someone who came with good references from the DNC and NGP VAN. And references to a "conspiracy" might refer only to the DNC and NGP VAN wanting to help Clinton. (For what it's worth, I think many DNC officials want Clinton to win; however, it is unfair to attack NGP VAN.) But almost all responses to this article interpret this as claiming that Uretsky is a plant, including a very large number of Sanders supporters themselves on DU, DailyKos, Reddit, and other sites.
I personally think this kind of claim is absurd, and I'm astonished that a top Sanders official (not sure who, but most reporters seem to think it is Jeff Weaver), would say this to a journalist. I doubt very much that Sanders himself believes this, and I really hope he brings his advisers in line. He deserves a lot better.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)to drop out of the race?
You wish.
BlueCheese
(2,522 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Hillary, et al... Now then you'll have something. It is becoming increasingly clear that this is the direction that needs investigation ... going back well BEFORE Day One!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Turned out, I was right about the man's lack of character all along.
cali
(114,904 posts)and the glaring contradictions in that record as well as the gap between his rhetoric and actions. There are no such corresponding contradictions in Bernie's record and there is no daylight between his rhetoric and actions.
You are ignoring the crystal clear evidence.
Your dislike stems from BDS
The Golden One
(46 posts)Turnabout is a fair play.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I believe by Super Tuesday, the real Democrats will have demonstrated that there is no place for a Socialist turned DINO at the top of our ticket.
The Golden One
(46 posts)I believe by Super Tuesday, the real Democrats will have demonstrated that there is no place for Third Way Corporatist at the top of our ticket.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)If he didn't before, and btw why didn't he?, what's going on in his campaign, he sure as hell does now. Nobody forced Sanders to make "mostly false" statements on MTP. I also don't think anybody could force Sanders to say or do anything he doesn't believe (in).
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He needs to pursue the data breach to the bitter end. I note, DWS/Hillary are silent on the issue! Because of their knee jerk reaction and the subsequent firestorm, they just want it to go away! They thought they had him! NOT, it blew up in their faces. Oops! It backfired and brought the Sanders campaign much attention, which is the opposite of what they believed it would do.
This genie ain't going back into the bottle. Toothpaste isnt' going back into the tube. Cat ain't going back in the bag.
Now DWS is stonewalling the investigation and aftermath. Highly predictable!
Marching orders? Try to project Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Hillary's fear of the investigation onto the Sanders campaign. It ain't gonna work, no brave face will save them. Sanders isn't backing down and his lawsuit isn't going away.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Sanders' staff are the data thieves. Not the other way around. The electorate knows this and it will definitely come back to bite Bernie. He may lose NH because of it.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)According to the president of VAN, no data was stolen. Hence Sanders call for a FULL INVESTIGATION. Hillarys campaign also had the same access to the information. They are silent on the issue and they do not want a full investigation.
Let the cards fall where they may.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)These logs show Sanders people spent a bit under two hours in the data. During that time, they called up information from about a dozen states. They queried the database for the number of voters who met certain criteria. The "Turnout" variable shows on a scale of 1 to 100 how likely a person is to vote. A voter with a high "Priority" score would be someone the campaign will make every effort to contact.
The NGP VAN statement said the Sanders campaign could not see actual lists of voters. All that would be visible would be tallies of people. The sole exception was "a one page-style report containing summary data on a list was saved out of VoteBuilder by one Sanders user."
That would correspond to the final item on the log above where at 11:41 a.m. there is a notation for "Hits counts and cross tabs 4 times."
It is unclear if that page was printed out or copied. But it was created because a Sanders staff member took specific actions.
Two people who know the NGP VAN system told PolitiFact that even the most minimal data gleaned from the Clinton campaign would have been valuable.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/dec/22/bernie-s/Sanders-take-Clinton-voter-data/
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Cuz they have nothing to hide!!
Oh, and the vendor says no critical data was exposed and nothing was 'taken'. But don't let that stop you from perpetuating this stuff that was debunked on December 18th by the president of VAN.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)The process is moving along quite nicely and I can't wait until all the evidence comes out.
Historic NY
(37,452 posts)and now confirm by Ipsos-Reuters Nat'l Poll-
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/23/politics/cnn-orc-poll-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)"In interviews conducted before the debate, Sanders ran closer to Clinton, with 37% support to Clinton's 45%. Among those interviewed after the debate, Clinton's lead grew to 60% vs. Sanders' 27%."
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)"We The People" will not stand for anything less than a full investigation, indictments of DWS, Hillary Uretsky et al until they are ALL "Frog Marched" to their rightful detention in our drive to restore DEMOCRACY TO THIS NATION!
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)No 'brave face' will make it go away!
It's pretty obvious to me that Debbie Wasserman Schultz desperately wants Sanders lawsuit to just go away. Hence all the recent OPs like this one.
He isn't backing down and Bernies lawsuit will go all the way to the end.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)It's certainly not a bad thing. It just makes more of y'all look unhinged and keeps folks from treating any of it seriously.
Good job.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)When the data breach happened DWS/Hillary's reaction was, 'Aha! We have him how!!' and they pounced and pulled the plug on his campaign, foolishly believing they had destroyed him. Problem is, they DWS had to violate Sanders legally binding contract to do it, hence now she is personally liable for it. They believed Sanders would react like Dean did, and bow out. To their horror, he came at them with all guns blazing!
Debbie Wasserman Schultz has been pulling her shit since back in May before Sanders announced. She is in cahoots with the corporate media, whose parent companies and major contributors to Hillary's campaign.
Now everything is backfiring on them and they cannot get the genie back in the bottle!
No amount of hand wringing by Hillary's supporters will make Bernie's lawsuit go away. This will go all the way to the end. Of course Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigning would go a long way toward making Sanders stop, but she is too arogant and the Hillary campaign is too dependent on her greasing the skids for her.
I find the whole situation ABSOLUTELY DELICIOUS! Go Bernie!!
hack89
(39,171 posts)The primaries will be over well before the suit ever goes to trial.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Beats me - go ask her. The entire issue is a tempest in a tea pot and will amount to nothing in the long run.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)As DNC head she is supposed to be neutral and work on getting positive attention for the party while concentrating on voter registration.
Instead she is 'fucking with Bernie'?
Thanks for making my point.
hack89
(39,171 posts)My point is that Bernie supporters are spinning wild conspiracy fantasies out of what will eventually amount to nothing.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)I do not expect any Hillary supporters to admit it.
hack89
(39,171 posts)you will never have to reexamine your beliefs or your candidate.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)The discovery phase ... it was made moot with the re-establishment of access.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)To get people to believe he could be President. He had to clear that gap and it's something his own supporters discuss. This is giving the image that he can't run a national campaign.
drowefnp
(28 posts)I agree. I think Bernie is a competent capable guy who would make a good president if elected. With that said, some of his campaign supporters and advisers continue to lead his campaign off the cliff by focusing on DWS, conspiracies and vitriol. That hurts Bernie's image and the perception of his ability to run a national campaign. Further, it wins him few undecided voters. The energy to drive voters into Bernie's camp is being sapped by the poison that is being regularly spewed by many supporters on DU. I think this is a huge mistake and the polling is picking up on that. Bernie voters should focus on passionately canvassing by phone or on the ground in Iowa, NH and pour that energy into influencing real voters. That is the way to get beyond his 30+ ceiling in the polls. What I have read on this site thus far, does little to help increase Bernie's appeal to new or first time voters. Bernie has said from the beginning that he had a goal to run a positive, energetic campaign. That is not being manifested at all on this website. If Bernie read the comments here, he should be worried about how it is affecting the state of his campaign. His campaign needs to push the needle if he is to win Iowa, NH, Nevada or SC. If he does not win any of these early states then he is pretty much done.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Neither party will be able to sue its way to the nomination.
treestar
(82,383 posts)they seem to spend more time on how "unfair" the whole things is rather than actually campaigning.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)First he claimed the guy who was fired was a white hat. Now he's a double agent?
Maybe Weaver is a plant.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to the Clinton campaign.
I'm not a Clinton partisan, just someone who isn't interpreting this stunt and crazy talk as a sign Team Sanders is up to the task of governing or building the party.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Because she is the one who broke the legally binding contract with the Sanders campaign in her glee to destroy his campaign.
Obviously she didn't anticipate his reaction and subsequent calls for a full investigation.
Now she is stonewalling the investigation into the breach. Pretty obvious she wants to hide the truth.
The Hillary campaign cannot afford Debbie Wasserman Schultz to resign her position, because she needs her to grease the skids.
No amount of hand wringing will make it go away. The whole situation is DELICIOUS!!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)But, alas, none forthcoming!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Debbie Wasserman Schultz illegal, knee jerk reaction to the breach is all Sanders needs. Now DWS is backpedaling.
Debbie Wasserman Schultz is now engaging in a cover up. The cover up is what sunk Nixon.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Pretty much what I said. Lol
Sancho
(9,070 posts)and the Sanders campaign signed contracts and MOU's about the system. They have a long way to go to win a lawsuit. DWS had meetings with all the DNC Vice-Presidents and officers before taking action. You can "interpret" motivations any way you want - but it's speculation. The facts are that the Sanders staff broke the rules, and they would not face a Kroll investigation if they had cooperated at the moment. They delayed, filed suit, and lied. Now they face a primary as enemies of the people who have the keys to the kingdom. At the very least, it's bad strategy. At worst, it's a sign of a campaign that's out of control and lacking the basics.
Maybe you should read up a bit...
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/statements/2015/12/19/four-questions-bernie-sanders-needs-to-answer/
Four Questions Bernie Sanders Needs to Answer
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2015_12/an_explanation_of_what_bernie059035.php#
December 19, 2015 11:57 AM
An Explanation of What Bernie Sanders Staffers Actually Did and Why It Matters
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/da7e5f2765814506a2519ea03055c1e6/dnc-barring-sanders-team-accessing-data-after-breach
Data breach sets off charges of theft in '16 Democratic race
https://medium.com/@AmyKDacey/here-s-what-happened-with-ngp-van-the-sanders-campaign-and-the-clinton-campaign-d75dd1d2edbf#.qdvbefufu
Heres what happened with NGP VAN, the Sanders Campaign, and the Clinton Campaign
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/12/19/deal-reached-between-sanders-and-dnc-doesnt-do-away-with-the-disdain/
Deal reached between Sanders and DNC doesnt do away with the disdain
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/democratic-presidential-race-explodes-after-data-breach-wvideo/2258411
Data breach sets off charges of theft in '16 Democratic race
http://iowastartingline.com/2015/12/19/sanders-campaigns-reckless-reaction-to-data-breach-is-a-danger-to-all-democrats/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork
Sanders Campaigns Reckless Reaction To Data Breach Is A Danger To All Democrats
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She immediately cut off his campaign and started attacking with bellicose rhetoric, in breach of the legally binding DNC contract. She fooishly believed he would resign from the race. WRONG! Bernie recognizes manna from Heaven when he see's it!
You can toss out a thousand pro Hillary links, but the matter is simple. Debbie Wasserman Schultz illegally pulled the plug and it backfired. Now she just wants it to go away, but she broke the law and it's too late.
Genie ain't going back in the bottle. Schultz is now in damage control mode, trying to stop the investigation.
Classic projection on your part. It's what people do when they are scared and trying to flip things and put on a brave face.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)and you were in the room so you KNOW that DWS thought Bernie would resign? How foolish!
I gave you national links that were not from any campaign - just investigative journalism and facts.
Do you think hiring Kroll is "trying to stop the investigation"?
At some point, these threads are so far from reality that it's a waste of time. If you want to read up and learn something, you have a start. If not, wait and see what the future holds.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She is personally liable for what she did, and she knows it. Actions speak louder than words.
SunSeeker
(51,630 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)You need clever geniuses to outsmart the oligarchs, since political revolution eventually involves basically a chess game with the 1% oligarchs. Either that or a clever overall political strategy (like how Trump has vaulted to the top despite saying outrageous things, showing him to be invincible to media attacks.)
If Bernie wants to run an honest, "stick to the issues" campaign then that's just plain naive and being naive is a very dangerous thing in national politics.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But no surprise.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... the types of decisions that would be made and the types of advisors that would be sought and trusted after the candidate was sworn in.
TSIAS
(14,689 posts)She ran a campaign that needed a bailout from Obama supporters to pay off all her debt. However, I don't think that means she would run the U.S. economy the same way.
This type of argument doesn't fly.
I guess Bernie Sanders could use a new advisor. I wonder if Bill and Hillary still have Dick Morris' number lying around to give him.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Bernie's campaign, and his decisions, and his staff are not as good as Hillary's in 2015/16. We can see that.