Tribalism is toxic and just as damaging to the left as it is to the right.


But what do I know?

At least the first part. The teamsmanship and division sometimes tries to murder my soul.

then I thought. She is right.

It's a pathetic and transparent attempt by a few disruptors. Nothing more of less. They've been race baiting for months, this is just the lasted iteration.

and then this.

yuck.

There's not much issue TO discuss (or defend against) so back to flinging feces.

Bottom of the issue barrel has been reached.

back to our roots as it were.....

Where, on DU, have you seen actual two sided conversation about issues? I have yet to see that ANYWHERE on this site. I have on many occasions attempted to get Hillary folk to discuss actual "issues" and such has, to my knowledge, never transpired.

By all means. What issue do you want to argue? Start here, or start an OP. I will look for it.

On your way, please avoid the obligatory drop-a-turd-and-run-away Clinton supporter thing. That is not helping.

What's on your mind?

i guess the one on my mind right now after tamir rice is criminal justice reform, private prisons, decriminalizing marijuana and the dp

some different positions in the dem party on those. i like bernie's positions (and looks like MOm as well)

ending private prisons
decriminalize mj (not sure where mom is on this one, but bernie is on board)
against dp, which imo should be a basic of the dem platform (both mom and bernie)

the support of minorities WHO KNOW who he is with his numbers exploding as more and more learn about him. The race baiting was a Rovian tactic attempting to attack his strengths. It failed, let them keep trying, it makes THEIR candidate look bad and only makes more people angry at THEM and gains more support for Bernie.

Convincing people that they're wrong, and showing them a better way, is a Bad Thing if it leads them to vote for Sanders.

It's the latest attempt of "throw shit at a wall and see what sticks"

sorry for them.

...giving shelter, acceptance and respectability

are merely misguided innocents ... or, something like that.

News flash: those attracted to the racist, heterosexist, misogynistic, and/or xenophobic message of trump are not attracted because they are poor ... the message is untroubling to them because they are racist, heterosexist, misogynistic, and/or xenophobic folks that are, also, poor.

So, at best ... should they help Bernie gain the Presidency AND his presidency accomplishes his platform, they will be racists, heterosexists, misogynists, and/or xenophobes, that are less poor.

That is not what I consider a net positive for society, as they will use their new less-poorness, to continue the social status quo.

no one should have it?

trail of him 'reaching out' to really horrible anti gay evangelists and actually employing them to appear at rallies for him, in order to pander to the sort of voters who would be impressed by the sort of preacher who says gay people are child killing vampires. At at least one of Obama's own rallies, one of those known hate preachers ranted against gay people. That was the 'Ex Gay' and they called that rally 'Embrace the Change' because they are just that tone deaf.

Obama, he spent lots of language on the subject of reaching out to those with opinions we find objectionable. He actively did so and defended this constantly.

Even as President he lavished praise on Tom Coburn 'my brother in Christ' who is a raging bigot and right wing nut. Wrote a page of praise to that man in Time Magazine.

Coburn: "The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power… That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda."

Obama: "The people of Oklahoma are lucky to have someone like Tom representing them in Washington — someone who speaks his mind, sticks to his principles and is committed to the people he was elected to serve."
http://time100.time.com/2013/04/18/time-100/slide/tom-coburn/

It starts to feel like this is a pass given to 'Christians' to be bigots and it does not count, to reach out to bigots and it is good politics. Bernie is exempt....

All of those things happened. Why was it ok for Obama to pander to bigots so very aggressively while Bernie is wrong to just say Republicans should vote for him? Obama can go to Bigoted places with famous bigots to pander to bigots for votes, Bernie can't say 'they should vote for me'. Why the two sets of rules?

It's a fair question. It's that double standard theme. In my opinion a double standard is a toxic social poison.

persecution of the GLBT community 8 years ago. Will that stop you from typing and retyping that same, "if President Obama can do it ... So can Bernie" Bullshit?

Never mind, that I have said that President Obama's out reach to McCurklin was wrong ... AND, never mind that at the time you wanted to pitched a fit over the matter ... But now you're just fine with it. So any talk of a double standard ends right fucking here.

You can't have it both ways ... excusing Bernie's out reach while complaining of President Obama's out reach all under the pretension of calling out a double standard that exists only in your head.

Now ... run along and ignore this ... so you can get to your next ... President Obama it it ... So can Bernie, too" post.

Posted on the very day he announced his candidacy. That's the day the race to the nomination became about race.

I posted that exact thing earlier today (below). I don't think he's "in league" with anyone, and never implied that. Maybe you can point where someone said he was in league.

Can't fight tonight. Just woke up for a cig.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=960779

It's not remotely the same. I know SBS got put on the spot and answered the best he could during the FTN interview, but there was no attempt on HRC's part to give cover to Trumps racist supporters. Didn't say that their racism was a misdirected channeling of their righteous anger.

where several of the commenters have accused him of providing "cover" for racists. i see nothing in lbn or any news about an issue with the sanders campaign and any minority groups. trying to make sense of a vile and baseless accusation.

Not in the fashion you're promoting (being in league). Point out where the being league shit came up.

And if you felt so strongly about this, why not post it in the original OP?

as to a reply, i did address it twice
if this is about the bs and bernie "going after" trump supporters

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=960187

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=961511

Where's the thread where someone says Sanders is "being in league with racists"?

its an expression and it means the same to me..providing cover, in league, all means in cahoots in my view. and bernie most certainly is not

as some of us would like it to be.

DU is a bastion of what the owners had in mind when they created it, mostly. Democrats supporting Democrats. Exceptions were carved out in the TOS for others who generally supported Democrats.

Whatever TOS says, we were a very different group with GWB in power. That dynamic changed once Bush was out of office.

Amazing, isn't it?

Which meme are they doing now?

but when bernie tries to convert crossover votes, he is playing to the trump racists.

funny how that works.....

yeash

They are people who just discovered they are actually liberals. They are the ones who know they are getting hosed by the system and it's not poor people doing the hosing. They are the ones who think perhaps a safety net should exist.

They are very likely a small group of so called conservatives most likely less than 10%. Probably closer to 5%.

No one in their right mind believes that, it's a tactic.

They've been calling Bernie a racist since he announced, this is just more of the same.

All because he got in the way of the coronation.

the more ridiculous the attack, the greater the desperation

so the internals for hillary must be HORRID

Ignore them. All of them.

DU will become lonelier, but your blood pressure will thank you.

As it turns out, Bernie was the first Jewish Klan member. (sarcasm, people, sarcasm)

ya know, that hood always coming on and off....

for the sarcasm impaired

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Thu Dec 31, 2015, 08:42 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

so now bernie is "giving cover" to racists??
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251961539

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Flamebait. Unadulterated flamebait.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Dec 31, 2015, 08:55 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree. There is nothing new here. It's another call out to start a fight. GDP is getting trashy. The jury system doesn't work very well, but posting stuff with no real value contributes to the problem.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Explanation: Considering the number of replies and their timing, this doesn't constitute flame bait. It also doesn't violate DU rules.
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Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I think this post may be the start of a new Bernie victim meme to shove at Hillary supporters. There is a bit more nuance to what people are saying and it is not as simplistic nor as hyperbolic as this post seems to make it out to be.

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i think i am getting the dance steps

1. several people start ops accusing bernie of terrible things
2. several other people start ops to refute or mock these ridiculous attacks
3 the people defending bernie get alerting on for "flamebait"

and put your left foot in and shake it all about......

being played by liberals in their own house, wtf is this place coming to...

Supporters of Trump who are endeared to Trump for his outright and unabashed racist, bigoted, and sexist rhetoric. That is so well known that I'm not sure if anyone could give them cover. Sanders is courting them. Don't see how they could be given cover considering how brazen they are in their rhetoric.

bernie will not change in order for people to support him. that is called pandering and while other politicians do that, bernie does not. if people want to support him they will have to get on board with HIS policies, and if that happens, just maybe we will have fewer bigots running around.

has anyone considered that?

Into doing anything but switching their vote from Trump to Sanders. That is the only conversion. To say it's any deeper than that is comedy worthy.

Show me where Sanders is converting a sizable number of Trumps extremely racist supporters into non-racists and I will show you my vote for Sanders in the primary.

This is reminding me of the "we already took care of race" comment hurled at the extremely courageous Marissa early on in the primary season.

people voting against their own interests, to get through to people that are triggered into voting for racist policies, I am just fine with that. I'll take it!

If he doesn't get through, that's okay too, it speaks volumes that he tries though. He calls out the manipulation for what it is instead of feeding into it. I respect that.

The positive change it may effect in these people. They may rethink their stances on race and other things if they have a relationship with Black people and others regarding the campaign. It could end up starting a positive dialogue.

They just prioritize their racism/heterosexism/misogyny/xenophobia over, what you consider their economic interests.

they don't think that hard about it and vote from the gut more than the head anyway.

You give them too much credit.

just act upon them and work to protect them.

Their prejudices are mostly subconscious, therefore Bernie's approach makes sense.

You should know how the game is played by now. Racism, misogyny, and other shiny social issues are the red meat they get as a reward for being hoodwinked into voting against their own economic interests. You can exhort people to quit saying what you don't want to hear, but for my part, no.

They aren't voting against their interests. Maybe they're voting against their economic self-interest, but that's because their views of the social order in this country have a higher priority for them. And they believe that it those views prevail, their economic situation will also improve - which is true.

that Black people are voting as our interests, because we (in the main) prioritize the fight for social justice over economic justice ... I want people to know how offensive that is.

because of economic issues (perhaps they lean left on economics), we are supposed to tell them to go away because they have other pov that we don't like?

since when are any of us in the business of deciding why a person should vote for a candidate and who they have the right to vote for?

i assume, of course, that these stipulations apply only to the people who vote for bernie (heavy snark)

of giving people a reason to vote for him. That's kinda the point.

meet standards of acceptability that are, strangely enough, not required of other candidates *cough* *cough*

refer to but there does seem to be some dissonance.

I expect consistency from candidates, voters... less so.

In either case, this isn't football, it's politics. More than that, it's life. Life and death in some cases.

should welcome crossover votes wherever they come from

but some have suggested that if bernie doesn't shoo away potential trump crossovers, he is supporting racism and misogyny.

more flamebait i am sure

Besides, making an appeal to one's humanity against racism in order to gain votes is not equivalent to accepting racism/racists' and misogyny/misogynists' views. Nor is it the polar opposite: an appeal to racism for votes.

Nuanced thinking is supposed to be a progressive tendency, our strong suit. But then, it's been bizarre in Leftville lately so there's no telling what's going on.

I've stopped trying to make sense of it.

trying to make sense of this place right now is a good way to drive oneself crazy

Third wayers?

But that's different, right?

Did you honestly just analogize the labeling of economic ideological positions to racism?

no longer an associational deal breaker, among a segment of DU.

i would urge them to reconsider positions on the issues

other than trying to take away votes from bernie, i can't understand why his voters are expected to pass some kind of acceptance test as to their political leanings

just another double standard,i guess

but don't pretend you haven't read just that thing ... on these boards.

has control of voting decisions so the discussion is largely moot.

but even if the racist bigots supporting trump don't change their views, they are going to vote.
the options are

vote for a dem and perhaps ultimately a dem will become president
vote for a repub and perhaps ultimately a repub will become president

which outcome would you rather see?

why this liberal and progressive Democrat has been correct in her choice of Hillary as a candidate. Economics is not the sole driving force of our system. It is not enough.

they are going to vote

would we rather see them toss a vote to a dem or a repub? who do we want in the white house?

see in the White House and who I think can win in the GE. It is really not more complicated than that. I support Hillary and will caucus for her.

i will be voting for bernie for the same reasons. i hope all the dems get crossover votes..fewer for the looneybirds to claim

"courting", my ass. The idea of getting elected is to get as many people as possible to vote for you. That's the point.

If Hillary was doing it you would be praising it as brilliant realpolitik.

happy new year!