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NRaleighLiberal

(60,015 posts)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:01 AM Sep 2012

Very cautious take from Nate - "Sept. 17: Electoral College May Not Help Obama"

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/sept-17-electoral-college-may-not-help-obama/?gwh=EAFD4D53B90E947D3DDA840F53256298

"The FiveThirtyEight presidential forecast for Monday was essentially unchanged, with President Obama having a 74.8 percent chance of winning another term. Taken on the whole, Monday’s data was consistent with the current “story” the forecast model is telling about the race, which is that Mr. Obama’s polls have declined slightly from their post-convention highs, but are also still slightly better than his preconvention polls.

If you look hard enough, of course, you can find polls where Mr. Obama’s convention bounce has evaporated completely — or others in which it hasn’t declined at all. But the forecast model, whatever its strengths or weaknesses, is pretty good at determining what the consensus of the data says at any given time.

So at this moment of relative calm in the overall forecast, let’s take a moment to peek at the Electoral College. I’ll have an overview of the status of individual swing states in The New York Times Magazine this week, so our focus here will be a little more “macro,” on the relationship between the Electoral College and the national popular vote.

As of Monday, the forecast gave Mr. Obama a 76.1 percent chance of winning the popular vote, but a 74.8 percent chance of winning the Electoral College. In other words, as of right now, Mr. Obama is more likely to lose the Electoral College while winning the popular vote than the other way around."

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Very cautious take from Nate - "Sept. 17: Electoral College May Not Help Obama" (Original Post) NRaleighLiberal Sep 2012 OP
Talk about data mining for concern BeyondGeography Sep 2012 #1
he definitely dove into concern-wonk mode for that particular piece.... NRaleighLiberal Sep 2012 #2
I think you're overly sanguine. With the electoral college, pnwmom Sep 2012 #5
Yeah timber84 Sep 2012 #3
Sept 17th before or after the new video? mucifer Sep 2012 #4
exactly - after the video, before the polling...doesn't seem to include a Libya disaster bounce NRaleighLiberal Sep 2012 #7
Yes, the trouble plauged Romney campaign is surging!!! WI_DEM Sep 2012 #6
That was yesterday, before Romney's hate-letter. sofa king Sep 2012 #8
I do not know what to think anymore about asjr Sep 2012 #9
Yeah, I know. I thought they'd have at least half the shock as they had catbyte Sep 2012 #11
I know the feeling and it isn't a good one. asjr Sep 2012 #14
Winning the high number Electorial College Swing States HockeyMom Sep 2012 #10
Nate wants to be right no matter what Blue Yorker Sep 2012 #12
I think Nate just wants people to continue to have a reason to read his blog frazzled Sep 2012 #13
But outsideworld Sep 2012 #26
Yesterday's polling regarding Virginia wasn't encouraging? Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2012 #15
Let me get this straight ... NHDEMFORLIFE Sep 2012 #16
You got it right. He felt the need to point out one # is slightly higher than the other. Indpndnt Sep 2012 #19
I think Nate is right to be cautious TroyD Sep 2012 #17
really? bloods vs crips Sep 2012 #18
What do you mean it's a 10% victory margin? TroyD Sep 2012 #20
the difference bloods vs crips Sep 2012 #21
Popular Vote matters TroyD Sep 2012 #22
agreed bloods vs crips Sep 2012 #23
Obama could lose both the popular vote and the electoral vote and still win. NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #27
Wha? Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2012 #29
It's actually happened! NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #30
Thanks! Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2012 #31
ya know, I love Nate Silver, but in this case, I think he was just trying to find something to say Orangepeel Sep 2012 #24
Nate Silver gets attacked for being biased in favor of Democrats TroyD Sep 2012 #25
My response to the idiot on Twitter who called Silver an Obama shill would be: davidpdx Sep 2012 #28

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
5. I think you're overly sanguine. With the electoral college,
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:07 AM
Sep 2012

Romney needs to commit major election fraud and/or vote suppression in only a few states.

NRaleighLiberal

(60,015 posts)
7. exactly - after the video, before the polling...doesn't seem to include a Libya disaster bounce
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:10 AM
Sep 2012

either. only going to get worse for the Mittster

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
8. That was yesterday, before Romney's hate-letter.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:16 AM
Sep 2012

He's not going to apologize, he's not going to release the rest of his taxes, he's stiffened the resolve of Democrats and horrified independents, and even though shady pollsters will try like hell to apply their old "likely voter" filters to the polling results as long as they can, the shift will be swift and permanent, and won't be easily concealed for long.

It's time for the President and all of the rest of us to move on to the House. Who is your Representative in Congress? How can you support that person with your time and effort, rather than money? The other guys have all the money, but none of the interpersonal skills, none of the facts, and none of the honesty.

Here's the guy who is going after my district's julep-sipping Old Boy. He's going to need a lot of help, so if you're from a safe district, consider seeing what you can do for Andy Schmookler.

http://andyschmooklerforcongress.com

asjr

(10,479 posts)
9. I do not know what to think anymore about
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:18 AM
Sep 2012

our chances of winning. This morning I was channel hopping and got MSNBC and Chuck Todd was being his usual self. I do not know if he is being blackmailed about his employment or not but he had another know-nothing (Chris Cilliza) on with someone from Politico. Their performances made my stomach upset. The two of them are neither reporters or journalists. Both are toadies. Their paychecks have taken over their tongues.

catbyte

(34,403 posts)
11. Yeah, I know. I thought they'd have at least half the shock as they had
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:25 AM
Sep 2012

about Obama's "clinging to God and gun's" comment, but they are REALLY giving Romney a pass on this one. I am actually a little shocked but I don't know why. I guess I foolishly got my hopes up for a minute or two that the media was actually going to do its job. Silly me.

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
10. Winning the high number Electorial College Swing States
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:19 AM
Sep 2012

of Ohio, Florida, Pa., etc. This why it is very important.

 

Blue Yorker

(436 posts)
12. Nate wants to be right no matter what
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:28 AM
Sep 2012

If Obama wins: I told you he was favorite!
If Obama loses: I told you the electoral college was a problem for him!

Hid disastrous 2010 predictions made him hypercautious.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
13. I think Nate just wants people to continue to have a reason to read his blog
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:39 AM
Sep 2012

until the election. If he has a post that says, "well, folks, it's really all over; there is no electoral path to the presidency for Romney," he's writing himself out of readership for the next two months.

It's sad but true that all those who participate in the media fall victim to the need to keep people on the edge of their seats so that they will get the requisite number of readers/viewers to preserve their own jobs.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,414 posts)
15. Yesterday's polling regarding Virginia wasn't encouraging?
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:01 AM
Sep 2012


Romney's path to 270 is a LOT harder than Obama's and every day it seems to only be getting harder. Voter suppression/disenfranchisement is the real "wild card" in all of this but going by polling alone, things look very good at the moment for Obama and not good for Romney at all. Surely don't want to assume anything but I think that Nate has it backwards in terms of popular vote vs. electoral vote.

NHDEMFORLIFE

(489 posts)
16. Let me get this straight ...
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:48 AM
Sep 2012

Admittedly, as an English major, my relationship with math is pretty spotty. But from what I read from Nate (rounding the numbers off a tad), Obama has a 76 percent chance of winning the popular vote and a 75 percent chance of winning the Electoral College.
And this should be considered a cautionary tale?
Really?
As I prepare to go to work, it should be noted that I have a 99.9 percent chance of making it there alive, but only a 98.9 percent chance of making it there uninjured.
I better find some bubble wrap before getting in the car.

Indpndnt

(2,391 posts)
19. You got it right. He felt the need to point out one # is slightly higher than the other.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:21 PM
Sep 2012

In other news, a dollar is still more money than 99 cents.

TroyD

(4,551 posts)
17. I think Nate is right to be cautious
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 03:42 PM
Sep 2012

While the odds still favor Obama, he is not going to win by 20% or even 10%. That's just the reality of the way elections work in this country. It's not possible to win by those sorts of margins.

And I think too many Democrats right now are assuming this is in the bag and don't notice that it's actually still close in a number of states. There's a lot of work yet to do, particularly in the Senate and House.

 

bloods vs crips

(17 posts)
18. really?
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:15 PM
Sep 2012

there is no such thing as the popular vote, I don't even know why people talk about it.

If he wins 280 to 255, that's still a 10% victory margin.

 

bloods vs crips

(17 posts)
21. the difference
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:26 PM
Sep 2012

between 255 and 280 - roughly 10%. I personally couldn't care less what the popular vote numbers are, or what national polls show. We don't have a mechanism for legally recognizing those votes at all yet.

Ventura's book? I don't know what you mean. I've been using this handle for probably 9 or 10 years, just decided to join the DU today.

TroyD

(4,551 posts)
22. Popular Vote matters
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:37 PM
Sep 2012

And you can bet that if Obama only narrowly beats Romney in the popular vote it will be mentioned by the media.

Popular vote, while not determining the outcome of the election as we tragically learned when the 2000 election was stolen, nevertheless confers some legitimacy on the winner of it. By beating your opponent in the popular vote, particularly when you get over 50%, it gives you more strength in claiming a mandate. In 2008, Obama was the first Democrat since Carter to get over 50% of the vote.

Remember too that in 1992, the Republicans claimed that because it was a 3-way race in which Clinton got "only 42% of the popular vote", they didn't have to respect his mandate. (He increased it to 49% in 1996.)

Btw, the title of Jesse Ventura's new book is called "Democrips vs. Rebloodlicans". He was on CNN last night.

 

bloods vs crips

(17 posts)
23. agreed
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:41 PM
Sep 2012

It does matters in theory. I just don't understand why people track it so much like it's an indication of winning the EC. 53-47 doesn't prove anything to me because a large percentage of those people could easily be from large segments of the country where states have no impact. I prefer to read polls about swing states specifically.

Ah, yeah I think I saw him on Piers Morgan when I was flipping channels.

If memory serves I heard someone use it during the Bush/Gore or 02 elections, and I thought it was a good name for political forums.

NYC Liberal

(20,136 posts)
27. Obama could lose both the popular vote and the electoral vote and still win.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 06:54 AM
Sep 2012

It's happened before.

NYC Liberal

(20,136 posts)
30. It's actually happened!
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:55 AM
Sep 2012

In 1824, Andrew Jackson won the electoral vote AND the popular vote, but lost the election.

Why?

Because even though he got the most electoral votes, it wasn't a majority. So the election was decided by the House, which gave it to Adams.

Orangepeel

(13,933 posts)
24. ya know, I love Nate Silver, but in this case, I think he was just trying to find something to say
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:43 PM
Sep 2012

The whole point is "conventional wisdom has it that Obama is more likely to win the electoral college than the popular vote, but really, it's about a 75% chance for both." He took, like, 12 paragraphs to say that and he (or someone else) added an attention grabbing headline to make it seem like something worth saying.


TroyD

(4,551 posts)
25. Nate Silver gets attacked for being biased in favor of Democrats
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:44 PM
Sep 2012

So I think he's trying to be fair & objective and cover all angles, just in case.

If you check his Twitter account, he received a lot of hostile comments from Republicans earlier this week. A writer from The Weekly Standard accused him of being an Obama shill or something last night on Twitter.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
28. My response to the idiot on Twitter who called Silver an Obama shill would be:
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:19 AM
Sep 2012

"Go ahead and toss the insults. When you find someone who can crunch numbers and literally predict the outcome of the presidential race, then call me"

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