This place is increasingly becoming white men only underground.

...have so many pricks a few years ago.

Just saying.

overlap between sexism and the gungeon. But the worst ones are long standing members. I they are trolls, they've been very successful.

It's like the rightwing craziness against women is giving some here on DU a bit of wind in their sails or something. Not many, but those some are making DU a nasty place to be for a feminist.

I've not contributed much for the fight lately but I appreciate those who do continue to fight and refuse to stfu.

mostly i do not say anything. he looks me in the eye and throws out a sexist "joke". MOSTLY, i say nothing. periodically when i think it is poor parenting to stay quiet, or i do choose to speak out, i get in trouble. i am bad. i am wrong.

19 yrs i mind my own business. i say nothing. i do nothing. 19 yrs he chooses to be offensive. and god forbid if i say anything.

the fact is. we are doing nothing. we are minding our own business and some poster CHOOSES to be offensive. they know well what they are doing. they make the choice to be offensive by saying something offensive.

they are offended and outraged if anyone calls it out. it becomes our fault.

it makes NO sense.

ya. what are we allowed to call out?

a 9 yr old being called the c word?

i guess the guys need to give us permission when we are allowed to speak. and some women need to give us a nod that this is something we can speak about.

that picture. right on.

If I'd seen it I would have waded in.

I always notice that serial misogynists never get tossed out of here either.

They are cagey; careful to avoid the buzz words that get alerts. But the fact that such a sophmoric tactic succeeds here, where we pride ourselves on keen perception, really needs to be addressed.

It's a simple matter to read an entire thread in order to see a sexist's strategy. I think admin should have a group conference. It is unacceptable that feminists are being smeared, harassed, devalued.

THAT is not our problem; the problem belongs to male sexists and their female capos enablers.

This is one of the posts I really related to. But I didn't realize it was you (didn't read the name before), til I read thru to see if I missed any new posts here.
Mine sounded as bad as yours, plus once he found out that I was part Jewish (grandfather was) he never let a chance of making a "jew joke" or two go by. He treated his wife like crap, too and then felt bad about it after she died.

It may sound terrible, but I am so glad he's gone.

up? And, yes, by inference if the thread calls out certain feminists, professing quite angrily that "they don't speak for her", then by inference that poster is saying that only SHE has the right to speak.

The hypocrisy is mind-blowing....

Yes, I have seen several of these threads, but have had to pass them by in order to focus on some work deadlines. But, the anti-feminist climate in DU is becoming overwhelming.

No one speaks for everyone. That point is obvious. The problem now is that the misogynists then point to these other supposed feminists to defend their bad behavior.

They'd rather someone could say 'skanky snatch' and be allowed to double down on it repeatedly without much uproar.

They'd rather that a 'comedian' could sexualize a 9-year-old girl, 'joke' about domestic violence, and happily sing about the bodies of actresses he's seen in rape scenes and stolen pictures, and nobody would make much of a fuss about it.

Well, pardon me, but fuck that.

I'm sure most of them would agree that The Onion calling a young girl a c-word was wrong. Or if not, they wouldn't have the guts to say so on DU (then again, maybe some of them have tried to pull that 'but it was just a joke, there's no reason to complain about that!' dumbass silencing tactic about that issue, too).

pathetic little pieces of shit who know their reign of unchallenged, undeserved power is coming to an end

and I'm a little afraid to ask... or else I get my ass kicked by Skittles! LOL

people who say such things seriously need their ass KICKED

Last edited Mon Mar 4, 2013, 12:38 PM - Edit history (3)

A certain kind of man loves accomodationism, perhaps.

I'm outraged because you are outraged. *sigh*

It's just typical now days on DU anymore.

Sorry, I can't remember her name, but it stuck with me. She said that the GOP wants to be our pastor, not our legislatures. How true!! Their hatred against women has become so extreme, it's frightening.

I grew up with a pastor like that in a rigid church, where the dogma against women was hip deep. It doesn't seem we have come very far.

But here on DU, and elsewhere, we need to never let anyone get away with that false crap about feminists. I believe some men feel threatened by a strong woman, thinking she can't be controlled. To them, I say, "Eat dirt".... !

woman, high five. and welcome.

i am being told to shut up everywhere i go cause men do not want to hear it. tough fuckin shit. quit calling little girls the c word and saying it is a "joke"

I hear you! I'm reading some posts here that I can really empathize with through my own personal experiences. It took me a long time to realize that what was being said to me or other women was offensive. Now I know when I hear it. We are not defined by our body parts. One thing about getting older, I can tell men to stick it. I'm glad to see the younger ones telling them off!

over. just seems so so so true.








once you see it, you cant ever go back, lol

Thanks for posting it. Nice to know I'm not alone

Sometimes I wish I could "unsee" it

LOVE IT!

But it's depressing too, cuz it's so true.

Thanks for posting it. Very true.

it explains so much for those that just do not get it. if they are willing to think the tiniest bit.

Whoever said such a thing was obviously deliberately picking a fight.

Would they go into a predominantly African-American party and start yelling racist slurs? Or into a gay bar and start yelling homophobic insults? If not, then why would they think it is acceptable to say something like that on DU?

Did they say it in one of the feminist groups? It would be bad enough on DU in general, since this is supposed to be a progressive board, but if they actually posted such insults on a thread in a feminist group, then that sounds to me like it should at least border on being a bannable offense, if not be considered all the way over the line into tombstone territory!

My reaction can be explained best in the screen name of one of my favorite posters who walked away years ago....

Nothingshocksmeanymore....NSMA

I keep feeling I had a very positve attitude toward that poster.

I've ever met at DU and assholes drove her off.

You know. Mostly, we speak about the issues. They don't like you or your group or some such.

It's just shitty all the way around.

No one's perfect and when being attacked one may strike back. I consider myself a pretty fair person. A person with strong principles, however. I'm woman who made it in a career after many years of trying times. And it makes me a bit sad that people think a woman like myself, is harming them, when I myself fought tooth and nail for everything I've accomplished.

Yet, I see it all the time that I'm harming women who just can't stand to look at the words I type on the internet. And that somehow, I'm taking away from their accomplishments. It's like I've minimized their accomplishment. Well, I'm pretty accomplished myself. So, we've all accomplished something. YaY for us all.

I don't know if that makes any sense or not. I've tried to type it out as clear as possible. I'm getting a little sleepy eyed right now.

Thanks for posting your thoughts here. Means a lot, really!

an internet message board so who cares. Well I do, because she was a real poster-someone I identified with, and so are you and so many others I see badgered daily. I really don't remember when hate and belittling became a Democratic party value but it seems to be the case here these days and thats sickening. For what its worth, I'm sorry.

But thank you for your caring.

I'm a pretty strong person who can usually take this stuff. If I were to say it never hurt, I would be lying. But all in all, I still got some fight left in me...

including my doctor, my dentist and my priest. It pisses me off to see anyone bullied, anytime, because I endured years of it on a daily basis and its just as ugly and hateful now as it was then.

in this thread that make it bearable.

I am so sorry for any bullying you experienced. Bullying is a scourge on humanity.

I was lucky compared to many.

thank you for caring, and your post. it matters.

and posted in Ask the Admins?

Her voice on feminist issues is sorely missed. I learned a lot from reading her posts.

As terrible as my memory is these days (and it SUCKS big time) I'm pretty sure her name was Tina.

Rowdyboy, one of my first big losses here on DU.

She was beautiful, smart and non compromising when true liberal values were at stake. She was also kind and sweet. She was one person who actually encouraged me not to be so shy about posting. I used to be a wall flower, lol.

It is good to see her "name" mentioned here by someone who felt the same way.

You described her so beautifully and correctly. You could almost feel her warmth through the keyboard. And she was wicked, wicked smart.

I consider her right next to Arwalden-you remember-the Queer Duck/Agnes Morehead/Marian Lorne fanatic who was wonderfully mad? Both kept me here early on when I was fed up and now both are long gone and I'm still plodding on.

As they say, life is what it is . But I miss them both like family (only I don't really like most of my family that much)

There have been several for me like that. Of course I remember Arwalden and that crazy duck and the Agnes Morehead stuff! Oh my, I hate thinking about all those who have gone.

Hey! I am just really really happy to see that you are still here occasionally. You have not been posting much for a long time have you? Hi Rowdyboy, you are one I miss and if you have been here then our paths have not crossed and I miss you.

NothingShocksMeAnymore and I talked on the phone a few times. Not often and not a lot but she was one hell of a woman and like you said, wicked smart.

LGBT and this week in HOF. I'm lurking, just not posting nearly so much. I've never been one who relished feuding with my friends and DU seems to have evolved into a bizarre version of "The Fight Club".

When you talk to Tina (Teena?) again, please tell her I remember her with all my love and Michael and I would still love to meet her someday. Can't believe I let work stand in the way when she came to New Orleans. She was a real class act.

And its good to talk to you again old friend. We've both got 11 years invested in this place and, however pissed I may get, I'll hang in if you will.

got a scholarship to uno. i are there? how fun. wave at him if you see him, lol.

I only talked to Teena (I do think I remember she spelled it that way but am not sure....seems right though) back when she was still here and never since then. Makes me sad.

I will take that challenge to hang in. This place goes back and forth it seems. Been pretty bad for some time though so we will see. I still have friends here, and I am so very very happy to see you again, that is why I stay mainly and because there is no other place that I know of to get so much news. One has only to read the OP's and the links to get caught up really quickly. I stay mainly on the latest page cause I stay out of arguments by not following the conversations if I know it is going to go badly. Except for women's issue and LGBT issues. I pretty much got pushed out of the LGBT forum by one person who would not let up on me. S'ok. Still work the issues and read and occasionally say something.

One more time, it is very very good to see you again. I miss so many of the posters from the way back!

near you.

not on DU.

they lose, because it is attempted as an intimidation tactic.

First we had to prove we weren't whores.

Now it's like we have to prove we aren't prudes.

It is ALL trying to control women through continual commentary about their sexuality.

that call women whores and sluts. no different.

It is, and they are shameless about it, while making up bullshit about us criticizing others about their sexuality. Classic projection.

I've had that happen twice in the past week. And of course neither of them backed up their dishonest claims.

Can you imagine what would happen if a person or opinion on DU were labelled "whorish"? All hell would break loose. (Unless it was a republican we don't like in which case, it would probably be A-OK, because DU is crazy like that.)

Yet "prudish" and "prude" are A-OK... when they are the same exact thing. Both are trying to use a woman's sexuality to shame her into changing her behavior.

It's deplorable.

While I think it goes both ways (sexism, people deliberately antagonizing one another) this is more over the top than anything I've seen recently. As I've said in another thread - it's not acceptable, no matter who does it. Can you link to the thread where this was said?

Outrageous jury decision on disgusting post. That will give you a good overview.

For pointing out that Macfarlane was making sport of rape scenes in his "We Saw Your Boobs" bit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2450385

It's very prevalent on DU.

Then you will get the ones, that will say feminists hate nudity (seeing boobies) but when you point out that those were rape scenes, they will thrash you for conflating boobies with rape. How dare you point out that it was more than just boobies.

It's all very strange and topsy turvy.

I wonder if it's the same people....

Including me. I learned feminism at my mother's knee and I was born in the 40's. Not all guys are insensitive douche bags.

I am proud to R&K this thread.

Though I make no claims to not being an insensitive douche bag on occasion, I think sexist behavior ought to be intolerable on a progressive forum. At the very least, we can point it out where we see it and make an effort to educate those who come here. I have to say, I've learned a few things from DU in this regard. My Mother is a Catholic who might have been a great nun - except that she believed that women should be able to become priests. Perhaps that's where I learned my first lesson about sexism and male patriarchy.

and PROUD OF IT!

And for that matter what the fuck are they? Somebody is using meaningless rhetorical insults meant for about, what, 30 years ago? Or avid readers of gossip magazines with the latest weight loss tips in the back page advertising as standard reading fare.

As I said in another thread, not too bright.

Not my kind of candy. I like simple chocolates...you know, for all that ass-sitting I do.

So I just visited Meta. Now that I have context. The conclusions are 1) Bon Bon's probably suck as bad as those cherry filled things do

2) Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war.

Julius Caesar (3.1.271)
In other words, fuck that shit.


Edit; nice picture; I like See's as long as they don't have strawberry filling or something--yuk.

The others you posted were ice cream posing as bon bons. But who knows what Mr. Pro-feminist had in mind. Did you catch that part? He insists he's pro-feminism.

You know, I used to think he was a decent guy. I actually gave him a heart. I have always had bad judgment when it comes to men.

I encountered another today who posts old research from 1988 claiming women who say no to men wanting to have sex really mean yes. Now I need a shower.

when women were just getting into their won they could decide on sex without being a slut regardless of what others felt.

19 fuckin' 88.

If I had a chocolate for every nice thing you've ever done for me . . .


I'd have an ass the size of New Hampshire!

this place hates women. The extent of the hatred is breathtaking, and it is sanctified by the owner's apparent refusal to do anything meaningful about it. If you are a donating member, you are part of the problem. Yes, I'll say it again: any woman who gives money to this place is an enabler. You are paying for the little boys club, including the owners of this site, to call us fat asses and have their little snickers and high fives while they giggle about our 'outrage'. They hate women, and it's as plain as the nose on your face.

For those of you who keep fighting, you have my admiration. Really, you do. But understand that you will get nowhere with this unless and until the owners make some changes and stick to them. Now, I assume this will get deleted and I'll be thrown off the site and frankly I don't care. Have a nice day.

the owners is just about absent. lol

but, i agree. the thing, when i repurchased my star i still hoped.... there would be some tweaking. actually, sucker that i am, i still have a little bit of hope. those of us that are long timers know the owners put an attempt in to curtail the sexism in the past.

some of us are really having a tough time accepting this is it. that this is really what the owners have in mind.

The DUh team are evidently being humored at our expensive...all the way to the bank.

like DU - if it weren't for the misogyny.

My comments above were needlessly harsh and nobody here deserves that. I admire those of you who soldier on in the face of extreme hatred - you have my respect and gratitude. Again, sorry for my words - the anger I feel about this "liberal" website was misdirected at you and I do sincerely apologize.

thought it right on.

I think most of us have felt that way at some point.

they too feel it has gone over the line. and have permission i guess that we can be bothered by this. why they do not get the tag of being outraged, i do not know. but, reasonably and rationally, we can all speak out against this. even non feminists can be bothered. yea.

the absolute absurdity is that they continue go on and about how we do this wrong, poutage, outrage, ect... yet, in their hypocrisy there are words that are over the line. their is sexism that needs to be called out.

the bottom line is ..... it is by their criteria that we are to look to. not that we should not. not that it is not out there. but... only when we have permission that is a valid thing to .... mention.

of an Al Bundy. ALL women will be treated like Peg Bundy, bon-bons and all.

are constantly deriding feminists in Meta and those who involved themselves in the War Of The Feminist Forum here on DU. Most of whom never took an interest in any of the feminist forums again, I file that under "things that make you go hmmmmm". I also note that "HoF" has now morphed into "any uppity feminist on DU". By the way, both Yardwork and Obamanut2012 are now gone, both strong feminist voices here and both very involved in the Feminist Forum, I find that very sad.

thing about feminism tell us how horrible we make it.

i miss each womans voice. and i hope that they each only take a moment away and they come back strong, and loud, and "outraged".

Funny how that worked. I often wonder how many people noticed.

Two great DUfeminists, Yardwork and Obamanut2012. Their absence is defiantly a loss for DU. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed they are only taking a well deserved break from the nastiness and will be back sooner rather than later.

If this were my site, I'd be more concerned about its integrity, but I guess the admins are tired of it & of if it runs itself into the sewer.

I have learned so much in this forum & have so much admiration for those of you who take the fight out there into the other forums. Your voices are so strong & clear that I'm certain the message gets through to at least a few people, even if you never hear from them.

The new DU is meaner. The admins seemed to have checked out & no longer care so much about the integrity of their site. I will consider Helen Reddy's comment above when my star expires.

Like the Matrix cartoon above, people are so immersed in the patriarchy, that they don't see how pervasive misogyny is. So when you point out that the language that they've always used & the views that they've always held, are indeed sexist, there's a lot of resistance, especially if they think of themselves as progressive. Plus there are a lot of assholes who just want to stir shit up.

I think its just a few, but just a little of their shit-stirring goes a long way.

I think it is obvious that there are a great many long time posters who are Republicans.

aoan - What do you think Skinner's wife or mother thinks about what DU's devolution?

I ain't got shit to say about all the sexist shit around here' thread?

Not a single name on that rec list is a surprise. Not a single one.

yet feel that we are doing it wrong.

following their pattern, i can only learn the right way of dealing with feminist issues is to never say anything.

am i wrong? have i missed something?

about the issues we all agree on. Abortion, birth control, etc.

We are supposed to only call out sexist shit on this board in our most polite, ladylike tones, and not make a fuss if the person spewing said sexist shit doubles down, and definitely not make a fuss when juries don't hide the sexist shit, because when they do that, that means the community says that sexist shit is in fact not sexist or at least not enough to worry about, really.

What a steaming load of stupid.

They learned their mother's lesson well. Smile. Smile. Smile.

Also I think birth order might play into it.

more diplomatic?

my mom was not a "yes dear" though lived the traditional role.

i get the traditionalist. i get the woman that does not speak out. damn hard. i get the passive.

there are all kinds of us in this world.

i could no more be passive, than another could be aggressive.

It made no sense to me at all. (How can anyone else tell you what to think? What does that even mean?)

I have never seen anyone tell anyone else what to think on DU. I see people stating opinions, and people agreeing and disagreeing. I have seen people verbally abuse the shit out of people for disagreeing. That still isn't the same as telling someone else "what to think". I mean, obviously I am in strong disagreement with some folks about issues here, especially those relating to sexism/misogyny. But I never feel like anyone is trying to tell me what to think. I feel like they think differently. Not the same thing at all.

Nor have I seen anyone claiming they speak for all feminists or all women on DU. And that accusation gets bandied about all the time.

Where does that even come from? Is it from people saying things like "calling a woman a sexist slur is harmful to all women"? That is making a claim that others may disagree with, but I don't view that as "speaking for all women".

And what is so hard about just saying "I disagree" without turning it into a nasty cage fight?

?????

Those who appeared as cheerleaders for the OP did not surprise me one bit.

you are a woman that see it as it, and sits in confusion of the ridiculous. nuance? maybe. but... you are right on.

WHOOSH right over my head. (It's my fucking Aspergers.)

But it keeps me from getting into these bullshit circular arguments where people are flinging around nuance and innuendo because I usually literally have no idea what the hell they are going on about most of the time.



And the few times I made the effort to figure it out, it turned out to be not actually be worth the trouble.

Aspergers is what i was hearing in the post of yours.

i love all our uniqueness. it is so much fun. for me.

holding your hand. I swear to god I get so confused sometimes because I don't get the innuendos and I am also terribly gullible because of it. Now I do know this about myself but get terribly upset when someone tools me around because they see it and think it is funny. There is a reason I don't post a lot or when I do I often will back away rather than fight because I do NOT want to be tooled around and then made fun of. My entire life has been like that and for a reasonably smart person that is terribly painful.

I do love to watch others get it and go after it.

This comes from someone who has spent their life allowing other people to dictate to them what to think.

I refer to them as "traditionalists".

I have a sister who is 13 months older than I am. She was a traditionalist.

We were raised by a very traditional mother of the WWII generation. I have always referenced this style of female upbringing as teaching us we must be "Miss Peace At Any Price".

Sometimes it took and sometimes it didn't.

In my case it didn't and I caused stress in the family for decades, just as the uppity feminists cause stress on DU.

I never thought about it that way, but you've explained a lot of stuff that I've seen happen for decades. Same exact dynamics.

Let me sit with that thought for a while.

I used to think that the anonymity of the Internet was a big part of bad Internet behavior. But remember that old saying that goes something like this: Character is what you do when you don't think anyone is looking. No one's looking. They choose to behave badly. They choose to spout their misogynistic views. On a progressive board, no less. Shows how effective the war on women has been over the past 20 years & also the deterioration of liberal values.

I come to DU mostly for the politics. I admire those of you who take up the battle out there in the other forums. You do it so well! And even though I am not an outspoken member, I am proud to be part of HOF.

We rock.

exactly

let my star expire. i never donated much anyway, can't afford to. but i don't plan to donate another dime to this place.

I ask not out of spite or offense but out of my ignorance. I think I understand the basic tenets that you are looking for in society. My question kind of delves a little deeper to interpersonal relationships.

What is the true equality that you are looking for from a man or men?
Knowing my imperfections and finding common ground, you and I become Friends and we are together.

What would our language be, or look like?

My back round is I am the youngest boy out of 7. I served in the Military for 22yrs and have been involved in the construction trades for over 20 yrs as well. Yes, lots of testosterone filled arenas. I give you this info not for my state of mind but rather I do not know what I do not know.


For the OP itself, I do know that telling someone to sit down and shut up is pretty condescending, and to tell someone that their issues are not as important as others is basic restriction of speech. What is more fundamental in this society than self determination? What is important to me is important to me, you may not agree with it but no one has the right to silence it. Nor do you have to comment or try to diminish it by ridicule. If a tree falls on my house, you may not think it a big deal, but hell it is a big deal to me and that is what should matter.

Last edited Wed Mar 6, 2013, 03:21 AM - Edit history (2)

and listening. What you express above displays a far more equal view of women than that expressed by many men around here. Women will differ on how they want to be treated. I think the key is asking, listening, and trying to understand rather than automatically rejecting something that you disagree with. It may be much like you would want to be treated yourself.

I appreciate your question.

here and see that picture, i so identify.

perfectly

Meta has been a nonstop clusterfuck for over a week now. Ever since those dang Oscars. Or ever since the Atman incident. I can't remember which came first. One shitfest morphs into the next in a continuous blur anymore.



The picture fits.

She posted a thread in Meta.