though have seen guys get it too from women on a regular basis

Pretty much a site where men AND women bash each other on a regular basis

then "bashing" him when he repeatedly turns her perverted ass down.

not necessarily sexually..their looks, lack of athletic build, their face..I don't post on POF but have seen some convo's..like I said I have seen the bashing go both ways.

Trust me, the site has equal opportunity bashers of both sexes..

that this was a typical convo, and that "guys get it too from women on a regular basis".

Do you not think the sexual entitlement on display, the sexual harassment, etc. are key elements of this exchange?

Do you have to pick a fight over every little thing? I said men are worse today and it's getting worse how they treat women.

What more the fuck do you want? All I said was that men and women bash each other on POF all the time..I was making the point that the bashing is done equally by both sexes..I'm not gonna write a 50 page theses over what I mean..every little detail.

Jeesh give it a fuckin break.

Sorry I don't have the time to write more clearly while answering the phone and doing stuff between post-working my job.. looks like at 103,000 post you have more free time on your hands.

Bye.

Penis size, lack of bedroom skills etc..

The women at a site I'm highly involved in (founding member) call it Plenty of Freaks.

plenty offish, also called it plenty offal.

have to say, though, I met a really wonderful woman there.
I liked her so much that i stayed with her for five years.
after five years of steady monogamous dating, we got married.

don't know if i could be more happy.

-Laelth

but unfortunately a significant minority.

talk on this board. the things said. ugly to hurt. ugly to feel superior. just ugly.

i do not know any more. i think too many accept it as a privilege and not willing to give it up. young, old. i think it is one fuckin' ass huge game for men. so they can feel all that. part of how they identify masculinity. as a gender

He appears to be of the Myspace Generation. From what I understand the behavior was pretty bad there. So now it's overflowing into a venue such as that. Keep in mind I write under two different aliases and my specialty is in the 'dating game' and single women's issues. I also ghost write for a dating guru for older, single, succesful/accomplished women. Feedback I've received is that this behavior is common amongst the early 20 something men. UNTIL - you put them in their place.

Older and arrogant men - their behavior is a little bit different. Example a good friend of mine is on JDate - it's pretty serious. I.E. people looking for LTR's. However - last month she got three different 'messages' complaining that she was too fat said in three different ways. She's a size 4 and teaches cross fit part time. She's anything BUT fat - but I *think* these men knew she was out of their league out of the gate - and decided to be bitter and angry and have a chip on their shoulder . . . and lash out.

for worth to hurt. no more. just hurt. so they can feel superior. what is this constant, ever present NEED, fuckin NEED to feel superior to a woman? i do not have that need. i do not hear it from most women. so why, for men to feel like a man, do they NEED to feel this superior? what makes them so damn weak?

We (speaking of men) are all imperfect. We are probably all touched by sexism to at least some small degree. But the sort of hardcore misogynist attitudes that we sometimes see vented online, although not rare in real life, do not represent the majority.

Most of my male friends have demonstrated mild sexist tendencies at one time or another. I have done so as well. But I think all of them would condemn the sort of behavior reflected in the OP.

in so many ways. even in the manner that is not misogynist, but just the privilege of sexism? how that effect all of your life. those that love you. those you are supposed to love. (i am not talking you personally. i am talking as a gender. as a whole)

the entitlement that certain things are deserved?

i know in ways, maybe, it is not all, but... i do not know.

are a big part of it with many men. They feel inferior to other men, and so they want to, at least, feel superior to the women in their lives. (Or to the black guy down the road. I think racism has many of the same roots.)

Some men have just been really hurt by the women in their lives, and they lack the maturity to put that into proper perspective.

Others are just lashing out in reaction to the general decline in living standards. They think their father's generation had it far better than they do, and "uppity" women are a convenient target for them to blame.

I don't really think I'm capable of giving you too much insight in to the way some of these guys think. Deep down, I don't really *get* them either.

i really needed to hear your voice, right here and now.

but I for one would appreciate your paying a bit more attention to whom you welcome.

gays?

pathetic, weak.

You even got some racism in your misogyny!

I bet that felt good to them, to say all the things they hide while posting under their main account/other accounts.

It's especially prevalent in the internet atheist community, at least as far as where Islamophobia is rampant.

But yeah, people who are just unaware of their internalized misogyny / patriarchy are the majority... But those few who are actively antifeminist, they are most often white people (mostly men but by no means all) who are as upset about ethnic minorities being considered equal as they are about women wanting to be seen and treated as human beings.

very nasty stuff. It is getting worse. See it at the university gym I work out at..young guys call the women, even the ones they like, "bisches" as in "how many bisches are going to be at the party tonight"

Don't think they are doing it to feel superior or identify their masculinity but just to fit in with their peers.. cultural talk.. I think nearly all of this comes from the music and movies and popular culture that surrounds them. Some of it is internet bravado of course..they would never say this to a woman in person.

Not all guys of course...still a lot of great young(an old) guys out there.

Are you going to have a heart attack seabeyond? lol

What kind of nasty ass comment is this? You come into a Feminist group and passive-aggressively attack one of our members and try to act like it's some kind of joke? I've seen you around, and you are not an ally. You do not belong here, and frankly if I was in charge of this group you would have been banned on Day One. I don't have the power to do that, but I have no problem telling you to watch your step in this room. It is a protected group where we are not expected to put up with crap from people who are not our allies.

but I do agree men, especially young men, are getting more crude towards women..and there is a breakdown between the sexes-how they treat each other..and getting worse.

It is NOT humor. It is a passive-aggressive jab and you are not fooling anyone.

And suggesting that all men need to feel superior to women. Actually, quite a good deal less nasty.

into this forum?

Just as substantive as it is cogent. Of course, I know that asking for evidence of such nastiness would be just more misogyny on my part, so I won't bother. I'll just leave your very real nastiness on display on this very thread to speak for itself.

In the same sentence. Unfortunately for you, your misapprehensions remain unambiguous.

The likes of which the poster I responded to could provide? Sorry if big words confuse you. I'm not going to stop using capitalization and stop having my posts make a lick of sense just because that seems to be in vogue around here.

Oh, did I hurt your feelings? Dude, you know I'm really sorry 'bout that. Really. Swear to God.


Let's see, more word fun

"The likes of"

"Lick of sense"

"In Vogue"

Huh, you must be a bit older to be use those particular idioms, I'd think you wouldn't get so easily upset by now. Did I mention I was sorry I hurt your feelings? You're clearly a sensitive type.

Who said anything about grammar? Look up "pretentious"

And BTW

Do you know what word salad actually means? I didn't think so.

So, I see now you're upset at the age of my idioms rather than the content of my argument. Well, you're more than welcome to get back to me if you're able to attack the substance of any of my posts, rather than the stupid bullshit you're going after. And believe me, having seen a number of the posts around here, I've seen more than my fair share of word salad. Living in the real world, though, I look forward to hearing your next stupid insult about my age or something (I'm 34, btw). Good day to you, dude.

Excellent attempt at turn around. Unfortunately your posts have no substance, otherwise I'd be happy to engage in a conversation-- Dude--And you not yet 35. What possibly could have hurt you so? Was it your Mom?

And you've just demonstrated that you don't know what word salad means. I so enjoy being right.

Quite the sensitive one, you are. Engage in conversation? Excuse me while I hold my sides. As for word salad, strange that you'd think I'd be unaware of this phenomenon that exists in a large majority of posts here. One particular poster pretty much posts nothing but word salad. I'll give you the Wiki definition if you're still so confused: "confused or unintelligible mixture of seemingly random words and phrases". Hell, I'd post a good dozen from one poster on this very thread if it weren't a ToS violation. Some people actually have pride in the words they write and allow others to see. I'd feel kind of embarassed if my words looked as if a dyslexic 3rd grader wrote them. That's just me, though.

You seem to enjoy infantile crowing more than actually being right. I enjoy being a decent person. But again, that's just me.

Not between you and I.

*sigh* I'm so misunderstood. But I'm still right--that's considerable solace.

And getting and still not understanding the term "word salad" from wiki is actually an interesting insight into your "decent"character.

More like a rather foul combination of a circle jerk and an echo chamber. That was actually what I commented on initially, but you seem more intent on defending the awful sexism I commented on.

And you should know that by you simply asserting that someone doesn't understand something, that doesn't make it true. That's a pretty pathetic rhetorical device if that's all you've got. I have to ask, what could possibly make you so angry? Did your father hurt you as a child? An uncle, perhaps? Regardless, I don't see anything positive coming from continuing this conversation. Whatever common term I bring up you'll simply accuse me of not knowing its definition and then further derailing the conversation with some comment about my mom. Frankly, my time's worth more than that. Good day to you, dude.

Mixes metaphors dude-- bad habit.

And



So my shot about your Mom got through. Nice to know.



Edit for the smilie I actually wanted...

I would have thought I'd have made my point clear by using the words "foul" and "combination", but I stupidly assumed you'd know what those words meant. You can really close to making a point though, so I'll give you points for trying.

I look forward to your next hilarious child abuse joke, though. It's odd, all the men I've known think child abuse is pretty disgusting and would never joke about such a thing. You've taught me that child abuse jokes can be hilarious if directed at the right person, because we all know that males are never subjected to such a thing. And they say feminists don't have a sense of humor.

But the "combination of a circle jerk and echo chamber" funny as hell.

But Let's see here.


We talkin' about child abuse now? I wasn't talking about child abuse. Apparently you were.

I don't think child abuse is funny, you think child abuse is funny? REALLY? Dude, that's very sick.

Oh, dear I have to edit, I just read your post a tad more thoroughly. So you want to know if my father or uncle "hurt" me? Is that where this child abuse is hilarious comes from? You want the details of torment a child experiences? And you think I can satisfy this need? Um--no thanks

Condescending arrogance, not so much.

As one of the founding members of this group I request on behalf of the group that you please tone it down or refrain from posting here.

And neither is suggesting that all men need to feel superior to women in order to feel like a man? Because that is what I was calling out in my post. I got slammed roundly for pointing that out, but no one seems to have any issue with the post I commented on. From my time here, it doesn't seem like different points of view are welcome at all.

You must read a lot, given the syntax of your posts, given that you're not yet 35 years of age.

Show me and I'll try to explain.

Rhetorical question, of course, cause it's obviously out of his ass.

I thought maybe it was some inside joke... cause WTF.

Men don't hide their intentions from their male friends, as someone who is disgusted and annoyed by this behavior and these thought processes i would say 55%-60% of men in my social circles are like this or hide it from women that they are like this. I find it childish, hateful, stupid and in the end those males will likely never have truly loving relationships.

It's refreshing.

My husband doesn't put up with it either and he says "you know what? They stop talking that way around me"---he's an awesome ally

or old ones who have made a career out of despising women for everything but a couple of orifices.

I do have a similar experience with it. I--stupidly--joined a facebook group for young widows. On any given week, I received 2-3 "invitations" in my "other" inbox (you know the one for people you aren't friends with?). Apparently single/widowed = desperate for a small number out there.

when she said she was going to send the conversation to his Mom. Hope she did. Then Mom can learn how little boy behaves when he can hide behind the anonymity of the internet. What a jerk.

Surprise surprise - Women can be simularly abusive often resorting to Bullying if a guy turns down their sexual advances.

"Might not be bad"

And don't you just love how sexual harassment is no big deal, just run of the mill bullying... and women sexually harass men just as much!



Makes you wonder, do they actually believe the shit that they're typing?

And such a incredible load of bullshit it is; actually stating that the experiences of women and men are the same in these situations, using anecdotal nonsense . Actually, when I think about it-- it reveals almost pathological self centeredness; then I remember, patriarchy---this is what passes for normal behavior

Think I'll have a tee shirt made "Just because you're a product of patriarchy does not give you an excuse to be a dumbass"

You played the "P" word. You really did.

"Women can be simularly (sic) abusive often resorting to Bullying if a guy turns down their sexual advances..."


I imagine that is how you may in fact, perceive being turned down by women. It's a most wonderful justification that allows you to rationalize being turned down as merely abusive and bullying behavior by the female.

Surprise, surprise, indeed...

Or just trolling

Neither. Simply a conclusion I reached...

Any additional petulance you may have can safely be disposed of in another group I would think.

(Insert clever rationalization here...)

Typical online behavior by today's men?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/125527917

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Misandry - implying that one ignorant asshole is typical of all men online.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Oct 23, 2013, 06:57 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Misandry is a MRA anti-feminist term which completely disregards the power differential between the genders. The OP poses a question, and the example given is one of many as women increasingly take screen caps of the harassment they endure. It's not hatred of men, it's the reality of women on the internet.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Emphatic vote to LEAVE IT ALONE. The post suggests no such thing the alerter states.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Definitely over the top, even if it came from an outside source. YUCK!
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: This does not conform to the Community Standards. I really gave this one thought and the benefit of the doubt but still didn't think it should be here. "Typical online behavior by today's men?" Replace the word "men" with "women", "jews", "armenians", "blacks" and so on, and include content involving stereotypical and offensive behavior such as what is included in this message and it wouldn't fit. So I vote to HIDE.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

As if it's exactly the same as misogyny. LOL!

I should probably prepare for the backlash - as was hinted at on another thread, how many men have had to evaluate their behavior on the internet because they're afraid unknown women will post death threats against them, publish their names and their home address and encourage other women to kill and rape them? I think we all know that number is statistically negligible, if there are any at all. Yet most women have done that since the inception of the internet - because they have to do that in "real life" too. And if you're a woman of color, LGBIA, or a trans*woman - being cis and het I haven't experienced this, but from conversations and reading, it is monumentally worse than anything I have seen in my relatively sheltered Norwegian life. As it is, I'm not without plenty of examples that should have made me hate men, but in the words of Melissa McEwan, I expect more, because I believe men are capable of more.

I'm pretty sure if I found this exact picture posted anywhere else on the Internet, the comments section would be ragging on the woman for being a "fat b***h."

Far too many feminist writers and friends of mine have had to either take a mental health break from working or in some cases go into hiding because they've been threatened with rape or murder, just because they said something that offended the patriarchy's sense of entitlement.

I do not like the reality you present for me to see. And by that, I mean I do not like the reality of the words; not that you personally have presented them. Whenever I see these kinds of things written out in black and white, I often wonder if I have contributed to this paradigm. I hope more women speak out against this behavior.

I myself, have been inappropriate at certain times in my past. But wow.., I have never threatened a woman in the way you describe and it truly saddens me that anyone would have to worry about that kind of behavior being directed at them. That shit is fucked up, and it totally mystifies me... I think I would be afraid to be a woman.

I have had a couple women really break my heart and take advantage of me, but the running tally is totally in the plus column for me. So I think two... and none in such a way that so many women have described or been reported to have suffered. It really saddens me... Because in the balance sheet of life, women have always treated me well, even when I did not deserve it, I can be a real ass some times.

I just wish more women would get elected so this generation and the next can get to work on eradicating this ugly reality that we see all too often. This year has been horrible. Hopefully because there is more knowledge of the incidents and not an increase in the frequency. I really believe that this age is not as different as those in the past. It has always been this nasty, and even worse. But now women are speaking up and saying it is not ok. Because it is not.

And men are capable of being more. Many are. The invasion in this thread is weird, and doesn't speak well for the ones who bothered--at all.

Start a thread on violence or rape or violence reduction education-- no concern. But a thread with visual aids providing examples of misogyny -- bam. Can't take the truth I guess.

For shining a glaring light on the stupidity and vulgarity of some men.

Some...

One is too many, but definitely it is not all. Some of us do not talk to women that way.

We all know men who don't talk to women like that.

We all appreciate men who call out other men for it (as opposed to those who busy themselves making excuses for those men - e.g. oh they're just young, oh its just for show).

we are not online buddies, so just don't.

Secondly, the piece of shit claimed all kinds of crap. He was just wanting to chat, he wanted to date and impress her, he wanted to pay for sex. Why the fuck do you think you can accurately pick the one that's not a lie?

Here's what I know. Piece of shit men like him are playing a numbers game. Go read some PUA sites and you might have a better grasp at what human filth like this is up to.

As for why "feminist men" need to direct their energy at other men? Do I seriously fucking need to explain this?

Men like that don't listen to women, DUH.

What did I miss?

In other words: Not much.

I cannot believe someone alerted on this OP...

People (Male and Female) need to speak up against this kind of stuff.

and yes, fairly typical on many dating sites. Some dating sites manage to filter out some of the worst, but most don't.

Just a heads up.

...potentially to date. For whatever reason, I regularly receive unsolicited PM's from women wanting to know more about me and go out on a date. From what I gather, this is better luck than most guys have. And all those interactions have given me a new and different perspective than I would have had, say, a year ago.

That series of back-and-forths you posted above? That could be an almost verbatim discussion between the second woman who ever contacted me via the dating site- with the gender roles reversed from your example.

I can report with the greatest certainty from a number of personal experiences with women I've corresponded with and (unfortunately) sometimes met, that the disgusting, crude, feral behavior in your example above is most-definitely present in both genders and that the exchange exemplifies nothing particular about a gender and nothing new about humanity.

That's the nicest, least-blunt way I can put it at the moment.

I did not let those dismal experiences color my overall impression of women and eventually met an exceptionally glorious and lovely example of a human being, whom I have had the pleasure and privilege of dating for the last few months.

Regards,

Poll_Blind

women have this happen to them...ALL THE DAMN TIME!

Practically no women talk like the man in the OP, with that level of specificity and in such disgusting detail. Sorry, but that's just not what we do. And that's the nicest, least blunt way I can respond.

Are you saying some women solicited you to give her unreciprocated oral sex for $50 and when you refused she berated your physical appearance?

Really?

I dunno... doesn't ring true for me.

Do you actually know what "verbatim" means?

What an incredible lack of insight.

but the particular form that rudeness takes may vary. I would be surprised if you had been insulted in the way described in the OP, but feel free to provide screenshots.

Yeah, I thought so.

Who are real jerks.

What this guy did was so wrong and I hope she did send the information to his mother. Maybe a talking to from his mother will stop this kind of behavior or keep it from possibly even escalating into violence at some point.

What a dumbass

son was addressing women in this manner, that smartphone would go into the blender and his account would be cancelled.

There must be some statute against texting people in this manner. It's clearly harassment and probably qualifies as stalking to boot.

Yikes.

I've known a few people who use that site. This doesn't surprise me at all.