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redqueen

(115,103 posts)
Sat May 24, 2014, 07:46 PM May 2014

Reading the news about Elliott Rodger's rants about wanting a girlfriend

reminded me of some things, and it made me want to share them here


A thread on reddit:





And a poem:

“when she was 7, a boy pushed her on the playground
she fell headfirst into the dirt and came up with a mouthful of gravel and lines of blood chasing each other down her legs
when she told her teacher what happened, she laughed and said ‘boys will be boys honey don’t let it bother you
he probably just thinks you’re cute’
but the thing is,
when you tell a little girl who has rocks in her teeth and scabs on her knees that hurt and attention are the same
you teach her that boys show their affection through aggression
and she grows into a young woman who constantly mistakes the two
because no one ever taught her the difference
‘boys will be boys’
turns into
‘that’s how he shows his love’
and bruises start to feel like the imprint of lips
she goes to school with a busted mouth in high school and says she was hit with a basketball instead of his fist
the one adult she tells scolds her
‘you know he loses his temper easily
why the hell did you have to provoke him?’
so she shrinks
folds into herself, flinches every time a man raises his voice
by the time she’s 16 she’s learned her job well
be quiet, be soft, be easy
don’t give him a reason
but for all her efforts, he still finds one
‘boys will be boys’ rings in her head
‘boys will be boys
he doesn’t mean it
he can’t help it’
she’s 7 years old on the playground again
with a mouth full of rocks and blood that tastes like copper love
because boys will be boys baby don’t you know
that’s just how he shows he cares
she’s 18 now and they’re drunk
in the split second it takes for her words to enter his ears they’re ruined
like a glass heirloom being dropped between the hands of generations
she meant them to open his arms but they curl his fists and suddenly his hands are on her and her head hits the wall and all of the goddamn words in the world couldn’t save them in this moment
she touches the bruise the next day
boys will be boys
aggression, affection, violence, love
how does she separate them when she learned so early that they’re inextricably bound, tangled in a constant tug-of-war
she draws tally marks on her walls ratios of kisses to bruises
one entire side of her bedroom turns purple, one entire side of her body
boys will be boys will be boys will be boys
when she’s 20, a boy touches her hips and she jumps
he asks her who the hell taught her to be scared like that and she wants to laugh
doesn’t he know that boys will be boys?
it took her 13 years to unlearn that lesson from the playground
so I guess what I’m trying to say is
i will talk until my voice is hoarse so that my little sister understands that aggression and affection are two entirely separate things
baby they exist in difference universes
my niece can’t even speak yet but I think I’ll start with her now
don’t ever accept the excuse that boys will be boys
don’t ever let him put his hands on you like that
if you see hate blazing in his eyes don’t you ever confuse it with love
baby love won’t hurt when it comes
you won’t have to hide it under long sleeves during the summer
and
the only reason he should ever reach out his hand
is to hold yours”

Fortesa Latifi - Boys Will Be Boys




That people (both men and women) can still claim not to understand concepts like male entitlement and sexual objectification... that even those who do can engage in false balance... we have so very far to go. And so few women willing to even open their eyes let alone work to change anything.

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Reading the news about Elliott Rodger's rants about wanting a girlfriend (Original Post) redqueen May 2014 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author IronLionZion May 2014 #1
This thread is not about love. This thread is about VIOLENT MEN. redqueen May 2014 #2
K+R IronLionZion May 2014 #7
That is an astonishingly obnoxious response to a thread that deals with Squinch May 2014 #3
I seen so many similar posts to that one from reddit. knitter4democracy May 2014 #4
The so-called Nice Guys don't need to be anywhere around women. redqueen May 2014 #5
That. Exactly that. knitter4democracy May 2014 #6
People post shit like that here, actually. redqueen May 2014 #8
Quite revealing, actually theHandpuppet May 2014 #10
I learned exactly that in a thread I started two weeks ago. nt ancianita May 2014 #11
The woman I know want decent partners ismnotwasm May 2014 #12
Instead of the Bimmer, Mom and Dad Warpy May 2014 #9
Still can't believe smallcat88 May 2014 #13
Same here. Not a cop's kid, but I learned to protect myself early on. freshwest May 2014 #16
Thanks. smallcat88 May 2014 #19
interesting and sad poem littlewolf May 2014 #14
The greatest thing my mother ever told me JustAnotherGen May 2014 #15
+1 IronLionZion May 2014 #17
Good advice. redqueen May 2014 #18

Response to redqueen (Original post)

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
2. This thread is not about love. This thread is about VIOLENT MEN.
Sat May 24, 2014, 08:28 PM
May 2014

Men who claim to love women and then will turn around and be as hateful, misogynist, and violent as society has taught them to be.

Squinch

(50,993 posts)
3. That is an astonishingly obnoxious response to a thread that deals with
Sat May 24, 2014, 08:45 PM
May 2014

violence against women. You should self delete. Just the fact that that was what occurred to you to say is disturbing.

knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
4. I seen so many similar posts to that one from reddit.
Sat May 24, 2014, 08:50 PM
May 2014

I used to hang out on a message board for singles, and it was there all the time. It got to the point where none of us respected so-called nice guys because they're all passive-aggressive and ultimately assholes.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
5. The so-called Nice Guys don't need to be anywhere around women.
Sat May 24, 2014, 08:53 PM
May 2014

They've all been poisoned by the messages fed to men about women, and until they unlearn that shit they're toxic.

knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
6. That. Exactly that.
Sat May 24, 2014, 08:59 PM
May 2014

They start going on and on about how women don't want nice guys, but the longer you let them talk, the more they reveal about what they really think about women (usually hatred underneath it all). *shudders* Instant sign of a guy I don't want to be with, really.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
8. People post shit like that here, actually.
Sat May 24, 2014, 09:16 PM
May 2014

I just read a post in GD where a guy says he feels sorry for us because we're biologically programmed to 'mate' with the most 'vicious brutes' we can find.

Aw, the poor nice guys. They can't get a look in cause we're biologically programmed to only fuck assholes.

I sincerely wish that kind of misogynist bullshit wasn't so common.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
10. Quite revealing, actually
Sat May 24, 2014, 09:54 PM
May 2014

I now have more insight on why a certain group of posters can be counted on to attack anyone who dares to criticize the misogyny of fundamentalist religions. What I haven't quite figured out is whether they truly can't recognize misogyny or they actually embrace it. Some of those posts on the thread you mentioned are so far out in the Twilight Zone from rational that I can't yet make up my mind.

ismnotwasm

(41,999 posts)
12. The woman I know want decent partners
Sat May 24, 2014, 10:17 PM
May 2014

Productive, fun, nice, loving etc.--all that. They understand there is no perfection in the human condition

Now 'nice guy' has been turned unto a meme because of these assholes. Pointing out to them that being 'nice' should be a natural state-- not a way to get laid, just gets an argument or some anecdotal story.

Warpy

(111,332 posts)
9. Instead of the Bimmer, Mom and Dad
Sat May 24, 2014, 09:28 PM
May 2014

should have bought him a Real Doll. She's always gorgeous, always silent and always ready. She's the perfect partner for these squirrels.

smallcat88

(426 posts)
13. Still can't believe
Sat May 24, 2014, 10:27 PM
May 2014

that kind of ignorance is actually taught - to anyone.

My dad was a cop, saw domestic violence all the time. As soon as I was old enough to talk he was teaching me to never let anyone hit me, touch me in certain ways (warnings against sexual abuse), and to always, always, ALWAYS tell someone about it if anyone tried. Tell him, my mom, anyone who would listen. He also taught me to defend myself. And go figure, I've never been abused. EVER. I would never tolerate it. Watching a tv movie once when I was a kid about a guy who beat his wife I asked my mom what she would do if dad beat her. (I knew he wouldn't but the movie made me, curious kid, ask the stupid question.) She shot back the immediate answer 'I'd hit him over the head with the couch."

When you teach anyone that abuse of any kind is 'to be expected' they can send out subtle signals they're not even aware of that says 'yes, I am an easy target'. Guess I never sent out those signals. THANKS DAD! THANKS MOM!

Teach your kids - NEVER take crap from anyone! My brother was a boy. As a man he would kick the ass of any man he caught beating a woman. Taught by the same parents, just slightly different lessons.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
16. Same here. Not a cop's kid, but I learned to protect myself early on.
Sun May 25, 2014, 02:05 PM
May 2014

I met a cop once with a plaque of the Fulgrum quote on his desk from his Everything I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten. The full text is here:

http://www.heartwarmingstories.net/everything.htm

IMO, he had a horrible job and I wondered if he was an abuser himself, because I felt only a very strange person would take the job, but I was wrong. I learned that someone has to do it. He worked in the special crimes division that made cases on abused children. Possibly Fulgrum's simple vision helped him keep his sanity.

A friend's son who is an LEO was promoted to detective. If he has a child abuse case, he won't take breaks or do anything no matter what time of day or night it is. He is 'driven,' so to say, to protect.

The quote was popular at one time. People mock this now, want a solution they can toss down a lightning bolts and change it all at once. I've seen too much to pretend abuse doesn't exist or that it's 'normal' in any way. Ignorance is the most dangerous thing.

smallcat88

(426 posts)
19. Thanks.
Sun May 25, 2014, 07:35 PM
May 2014

That was good, except I hated naps in kindergarten. Far more fond of them now in my 50's. Reading it makes me think we should send all Republicans back to kindergarten.

littlewolf

(3,813 posts)
14. interesting and sad poem
Sat May 24, 2014, 10:49 PM
May 2014

growing up "boys will be boys" usually meant taking some times foolish chances
driving too fast, swimming out past were it was "safe"
waiting till the last second to study for an important test.
pushing more weight to bulk up for football
being aggressive during sports.
I never heard of it toward girls while I was a teen.

JustAnotherGen

(31,869 posts)
15. The greatest thing my mother ever told me
Sun May 25, 2014, 11:35 AM
May 2014

Was when I was in kindergarten and she was visiting at lunch and a little boy pulled my pigtails. . .

"He's mean. See how Ryan and Eric are hanging on the monkey bars trying to get your attention? Go play with them."


That served me very well the 39 years I was single.

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