the 1st rule by talking about it. You see, if you ignore and keep quiet they will go away, or something.

Hope you are enjoying your day otherwise.

Sorry for forgetting the sarcasm tag.

to Seabeyond once because I forgot the sarcasm tag.

I added a sig line for the next time I forget.

I'm quite sorry to see anyone become harassed merely for standing up against unfair attack on one or more members of this group or those who frequent this group--or who post in favor of women's issues throughout DU.

I'll simply say thank you.

to defend a person who has been so incredibly abusive. I'm sorry William. You are trying to do what is right, to promote the civility and integrity of the site and you do not deserve to be harassed for that.

Thank you for standing up with us.

These kinds of things are part of the reason I am not here much anymore. Many have been chased away over the years by this stuff. I know you well enough to know you are not going anywhere so thanks again.

Seems to me they are aiding and abetting that kind of abuse if this is true.

If the admins would just own up to this shit the drama wouldn't exist. Just shut it down. They have the power to do it, they just don't care enough to.

Thanks for standing up to the abuse!

out for blood and doesn't exercise any self control-- that is the height of irresponsibility.

I believe, acting in good faith, they sent a PM to the poster suggesting they edit their profile, so the nasty stuff wouldn't be there to cause harm. I also believe the MIRT member told the poster about the thread in MIRT in the interest of honesty/transparency.

In my opinion, the MIRT member never expected the poster would send nastygrams to Bill.

That said, I am disappointed that Bill's identity was disclosed, and utterly disgusted that he received harassing mail.

Given the history of that particular individual, they surely must have known they would retaliate against Bill. That is the part that is unforgivable to me.

And I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the MIRT member for the time being.
In my view, sending nasty PMs is not only despicable, it's counterproductive and likely to lead to being banned, so it would never enter my mind that a long-timer would send them. Maybe the other MIRT member felt the same way? I can't speak for the assumptions or expectations of others.

At the end of the day, the poster with the nasty profile edit is the instigator here, and I hesitate to condemn anyone else for his/her actions.

position related to members of this group you might see things differently.

I am familiar enough with the poster (with the edited profile) to have them on ignore, though.

Last edited Sat Sep 6, 2014, 06:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Having a MIRT member tipping one off when they're being discussed in MIRT doesn't seem like equal treatment to me. Either everyone gets a tip off or no one does.

Another MIRT member actually suggested that the poster be contacted, and asked if anyone on MIRT knew the poster well enough to contact him/her.

And ~99% of the "subjects" of MIRT discussions are brand new posters.

the wording in a post or profile? Is this common?

For instance, I often check First Posts page, whether on MIRT or not. I reply to them sometimes too, whether or not on MIRT. Most MIRT volunteers try to be more than fair, not use MIRT status unfairly. And while back in the beginning of DU3 some messages were sent as "MIRT member", that stopped quickly as it was not appropriate. Now most MIRT volunteers, as far as I am aware, send messages and post as DUers, leaving MIRT affairs in MIRT.

Which is a long way of saying MIRT does not do that, but DUers volunteering on MIRT may.

But the whole situation is rare - people don't often edit their profile into attacks against other DUers.

I think Bill acted in good faith by attempting to bring the profile to Admins' attention.
I think the MIRTer who suggested contacting the poster to request an edit acted in good faith.
And I think the MIRTer who did contact the poster also acted in good faith.

The only person who did NOT act in good faith is the poster who edited the profile with the intention of attacking people.

The whole episode is unfortunate, but nobody on MIRT acted with malice, imo.

When it came to reposting me to the person with the profile. That was indeed done with malice knowing what the outcome would be.

This is what I said earlier in this thread about MIRT and still stand by what I said. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=50408

But to reiterate there was malice involved.

even though we disagree on this, you're always a good egg, and I love you, man!

recently tried to coach someone in how to insult in a passive aggressive manner without getting a hide. That strikes me as the advice of someone who acts quite deliberately.

Disclosing William's identity to subject him to harassment from someone clearly out of control is what is unacceptable.

Was it to tell them to knock it off or to warn them that someone had reported it and save them from a ban?

I don't see how a "warning" would change anything (admins would still see it).

Someone in MIRT suggested contacting the poster to request an edit (which would be a quicker way to remove the offending text), and another MIRT member volunteered to do so.

I honestly believe all parties acted in good faith. I realize Bill disagrees with me, but that's truly my impression.

None of that diminishes the BS that Bill had to put up with as a recipient of the nasty PMs.

if they changed it.

My opinion is they did it so ban them. If they really are that immature and can't control their posting (includes profile description) then they should be shown the door. Especially after they started harassing William##.

I hope they were banned but I don't' really expect it from the admins of this site. They don't seem to care about these things as much as they care about people discussing them.

As with most of DU there are grey areas. We can Post anything from MIRT Forum to anywhere else on DU we normally don't because of what can happen but since this happened to me this OP is in response to that. If the PM's had never happened I would have never done something like this.

But this was to egregious to let go especially since I don't feel I did anything wrong in the first place.

I will also addd that that MIRT member also is the one that raised a stink in the Hosts Forum awhile back and because of what that person did and what I had to say about it, I honestely believe this was done purely out of malice and I will leave it at that.

Someone with suspended privileges created a sock account to get around their suspension and continued to harass members of this group. The only way you could bring this to the attention of the admins was to create a thread in the MIRT group to alert them. Then, a member of MIRT reached out to that sock puppet to warn them that you had caught them out. Then the sock puppet began harassing you.

Do I have that right? A member of MIRT tipped off the sock puppet? Unbelievable. No actually, it is believable. The more important thing will be to know what happens to both the sock puppet and the MIRT member who warned them. Can you keep us posted on this? Thank you.

They were using thier profile (which they have since deleted for obvious reasons). But you are spot on about the MIRT member Just change sock to profile). ANd yes when someone is on a temporary suspension people will look at thier profile to see the hidden post. And how would someone alert on something like that?

Well, well, birds of a feather etc.

It's either that or cry.

Not laughing at all just saying I know who's who.

I see that as positive. I myself am getting a bit threadbare with the constant outrageous posts here, and probably should take a break. Your joking is a positive sign that you continue to have the energy to fight the good fight. Laugh at them, there's nothing they hate more.

Last edited Sat Sep 6, 2014, 03:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Nor am I surprised that those who roar about HoF alert stalking and gaming the system are masters at alert stalking and gaming the system,it's called projection. Thanks for the heads up William,you're a good egg.

I hope you don't get booted off of MIRT for calling it out, but nothing would surprise me these days.

(how much do you want to bet that this OP was alerted on?)

As for being kicked off MIRT? I doubt it, my transgression is nothing compared to the other MIRT member involved. I have served on every MIRT every term that allows a DU member sice DU3's inception and believe I have a stellar reputation for my acts in MIRT.

I bet William does just fine at multi-tasking. Can you maybe clarify what you mean by "why even bother with HOF"? And try to remember that you are posting in HOF now.

Last edited Sat Sep 6, 2014, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)

If your intent is to be abusive to the group then let it stand and face the consequences; otherwise, I'd suggest you clarify or self-delete pronto.

Co-host, HOF

against all of the subaltern, including LGBT citizens around the world.

Are they being harassed for daring to make a souffle?

the same way we stand up for LGBT. We are like brothers and sisters.We have each others backs, or at least many of us do.

I will tell you a fact, he has taken my back more than once and I love him dearly for that. Yes, he is one of the good guys.

A sweet gentle soul and he damn well knows how to place a punch when needed.

I love Williams support. I know that he is aware of mine.

Last edited Sun Sep 7, 2014, 02:26 PM - Edit history (3)

What other group on this board besides The LGBT or the AA group has been harassed and targeted, denigrated and maligned, ostracized and insulted, and made fun of?

Why indeed, should anyone speak up for HoF ... ?

Concentrate on whom?

Ignore whom?

Exactly what is it you are trying to say here?

Thanks for your consistent and very strong support.

I think I have it figured out but am not certain. Here is my guess... Someone who got their 5th Hide yesterday then edited their Profile (perhaps repeatedly) to protest and trash HOF. After you posted about it in MIRT one of these MIRT members told said poster so they could clean it up -

etronius
bluesbassman
LeftishBrit
noiretextatique
greatauntoftriplets
Bobbie Jo
one_voice
intheflow
uppityperson
CaliforniaPeggy
awoke_in_2003
Violet_Crumble
Dragonfli
Sissyk
RiffRandell
rug
newcriminal
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
icymist
mtnester
Agschmid
arcane1
cyberswede
discntnt_irny_srcsm
hrmjustin
maddezmom
NRaleighLiberal
octoberlib
Ptah
Rhiannon12866
Terra Alta
Warren DeMontague

Is that right?

previous offender.

being civil and professional is generally what happens and happened in the the MIRT thread.

by pming the name of the person (William) which then resulted in his getting harassing pms.

Changing up a profile to harass after being put on temporary time out is wrong and it was ok to notify admin. Sending harassing pms is wrong and it is ok to notify admin.

But in the MIRT forum, in the thread, there was an objection but not "pitching a fit". And I support William in this. I hope this makes sense.

1. contacted the subject of that thread and 2. identified William as the person who had objected in MIRT to their ugly profile edit?

Is that correct--the same MIRT member?

Last edited Sat Sep 6, 2014, 05:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Last edited Sun Sep 7, 2014, 08:36 AM - Edit history (2)

of a situation in "Hosts Forum" not that long ago... sigh....

Edited to add-- as cyberswede has indicated-- I am not assuming malice as motivation. Sometimes things are done or said with good, if misplaced, intent that backfires... I think we have all experienced that.

(to me it looks a little muddled right now, maybe be cause of the pain meds I am on), but I want to point out that uppityperson is very supportive of what happened.

I really have not spoke of this in public but I will now. I am recovering from having surgery on two disks in my neck and this recovery mat take awhile and if you don't see me like you usually do, this is the reason.

I hope the meds are keeping the pain at bay.

We all want you well.

I hope you feel better soon. I've had surgery on disks in my back, but not my neck. I can't even imagine.

I think thats all that needs to be said.

Thanks!

hmmmm

That's a pretty good bet, in fact you might even call it a lock.

Brava, Bains.

I am only just home from work and I have put much of the puzzle in place. Yes, I read all that happened in the hosts forum that night.

I didn't mean no harm, I am innocent in this, I was used claims, take on a new meaning the 2nd time they do almost the exact same thing.

Your support is greatly appreciated. She came after me with a vengeance. I am really sorry that you have to deal that kind of harassment too. I saw that profile message and I don't see how that is not an attempt to circumvent around the time-out. None of that behavior should be acceptable here.

Sheesh.

Given recent events.

She changed her profile after she was put on time out ranting and raving about HOF.

And try to help out as much as I can. I try to do whats right and I will defend aanyone else doing the same thing. I hope my reputation has shown that.

Hang in there. Maybe something finally will be done.

in the closed MIRT forum right now.

It's a positive thread just giving the facts to what happened except for the one. Working on MIRT is actually very good but as with anything every once in awhile there is a bad apple.

but you are even more invaluable. Be sure to look after yourself and allow yourself to rest up and recover from your surgery.

I'm glad all of the jurors saw through that.

It's a pleasure and a surprise to run into someone who's trying to make things better. I don't understand proliferation of the other sort.

Don't we all deserve to know this? Seems pretty serious.

there is something seriously wrong with these assholes that they have to go and start personally attacking people like this.

and if the person gave your name i'm sure it was intentional and wanted you to be attacked.

This same sort of stuff went on for years with our LGBT community and the admins denied all that too-- for years. Then magically, one day, one admin came clean and tried to mend fences. I see the same pattern occurring and the same responses from admins about this issue. VERY disheartening.

They seem to see it as this grand experiment in putting faith in the DU community and they're convinced it works. I think it blinds them to what's going on, so I'm not holding my breath. It was different when it was DU2. Something has changed since then.

Here is a thread petitioning the Admin for improving it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1256&pid=5203

After several months with no response from the owners the OP locked the thread. At the bottom is the original thread starter.

They've ignored me. They don't seem interested for whatever reason.

It's as if we haven't asked the question.


I rarely post in HoF but to all of the regulars here I'd like to say that the vilification of this group would be comical if it weren't so dangerous because IMHO it has prejudiced juries to vote against any women who support feminist positions. All it takes is invoking the name of HoF in the alert, it seems.

And to William769, you don't deserve the crap.

The people who troll HoF, however, tend to be some of the nastiest and downright unhinged. But, somehow it's all about how horrible HoF is. And you're right, I think it does prejudiced juries sometimes.

Last edited Sun Sep 7, 2014, 05:38 AM - Edit history (1)

They resent the fact we post about issues concerning rape, gender violence, and misogyny. They are completely invested in white male entitlement and fight diligently to promote it.

The person who started all this began by attacking me when I first joined this site because she didn't like the issues that I cared about. Rather than debating the substance, she made it personal. She has done that ever since and blamed me for slights that happened--if they happened at all--before I even joined DU. I have asked her repeatedly for links to such insults and she refuses. When someone consistently refuses to provide evidence, it draws their allegations into question, particularly when I know she has often falsely accused me personally.

and purposefully so.

the tos has been ignored for a long time. If the no personal attacks rule were still enforced, the discussions would be radically different, but there was also that "disruptionist" site, where skinner, perhaps out of good intent, perhaps out of greed, thought he would harness people who by their nature are sociopaths who simply see anything as a means to their ends, including attacking anyone that tries to extend a hand to them.

It is beyond my comprehension that people carry around these grudges for literally years over some words posted on the internet.

And then go to these elaborate lengths to try to get some kind of "revenge" and cause other people distress.

I just do not get it at all.

Sure I have had my moments of snark but damn... this is a whole 'nother level.

I am actually worried about that poster, in a real human "I hope she is OK" sense - I am NOT trying to cast aspersions on her in any way when I say that nor am I being sarcastic, I genuinely mean it - and she has never been anything but nasty to many of us. That is a lot of hate to carry around.

I have often thought that those who enable her do her no favors for that very reason. That kind of anger is more destructive to herself than anyone.

That is so messed up. The MIRT member who told this person harassing you that you'd complained needs to be kicked off MIRT and possibly more severe consequences. Not their first time abusing power or aiding those seeking to attack HoF members if I understand correctly. Sorry to hear you're now being targeted for harassment.

I saw that profile early this morning but had no idea that anything could be done about it.

I agree with Bains about her enablers. They are doing her no favors by defending and justifying her vicious attacks on anyone associated with HoF. Can you even imagine the uproar if an HoF member had posted that vile comment that somehow escaped being hidden. The same people who rushed to defend her would have been screaming for a PPR.

I think you represent all that is good and just about DU. Rest and heal now, you deserve it.

Some have even since continued to insist she was justified since "that group" is so insulting and attacks her and everyone else all the time. That is after her insult to JTFrogg, after the edits her profile, and after her harassment of William.

After witnessing the abuse heaped on JT, I finally posted a comment to her. I think she handled herself very well considering the fact that some seemed to be making a concerted effort to provoke her.

I, also, saw the post that was hidden today which was nothing more than a continuation of the first hate infested thread and an attempt to escalate the battle. I haven't been here very long but it's disheartening to realize people are so invested in furthering a grudge that they can't seem to control themselves. Seems like nothing more than a sick power trip, to me.

There are some people on the planet that find joy in seeing others hurt. It's difficult to imagine, but they do exist.

You help right the wrongs and it is so appreciated.

Now please, take care of yourself. You need some rest. What you did not need was a nasty PM from an incredibly angry and vicious poster. Nor did you need another betrayal from a member of MIRT. I am sorry you had to deal with that.

when people admit that certain people are trying to GAME THESYSTEM, you get shouted down, every often by the same folks that are high fiving the MRA dudes, both here, and at that site which we all know about.

Disclaimer: I was juror #1.

Funny how they mention MIRT members willing to use their positions.... One thing I have noticed about the recent spat of serial alerting is that the alerts seem more projection than anything else.