it is bad
even the kids know it when they see it on their classmates

It was very hard finding a real bra that wasn't.

My daughter wears a C cup as a 13-year-old. She doesn't need a push-up or padded bra!

She needs one that's supportive without making her look bigger or more perky.

But what about the boys and men around her? Do you really want to keep her from earning their all-important attention and approval?

are so healthy for a growing girl!!
The thongs in child size undies is an eye turner too

The only exception was sport bras.

But underwires changed everything. Now, it's a total toss!

Girls at that age are probably more interested in showing up and dominating each other in their vicious little in and out groups than in attracting boy's approval.

Yeah, there are mean girls, and there are mean boys. They aren't the majority.

Nice touch there. "Viscious little in and out groups"... also known as typical high school behavior for both boys and girls...

we always hear about the girls. raising sons it is anything but just girls, for sure. and their mean goes along with physical mean with their words.

+ you sound jealous of female children

I am talking under 14 even 10-8yrs why the sexy stuff
and esp. the underwear?
who will see it besides the girl herself ???

which is the issue IMO -her self image @10!

My oldest daughter just turned 13. She is extremely tall, so even knee-length skirts are a bit short on her. School starts tomorrow, and I struggled to find trendy clothes that were age-appropriate.

I want her to fit in with her peers, to a point. She already stands out due to her height and her geeky nature. I don't want her clothes to be a source of embarrassment for her, but I also don't want her to look sexy in middle school.

Personally, I wish school uniforms were more popular.

My eldest just turned 14.

Isn't it sad that even school uniforms have become sexualized?

Women everywhere need to get way more informed and intelligent about this stuff. Sexualized schoolgirl uniforms should not be acceptable in any context, but they are, and that says so very much about where we stand.

No the cutesy 'you're boyfriend wants me' or 'little hottie'. If she likes them, it might help balance the rest of the stuff crap she might get interested in

Sorting through them online is a chore though I was looking and it was hard to find something a for a little girl;I like these for high school rather than middle school, but you get the idea

http://www.cafepress.com/mf/16065715/good-men_baseball-jersey
http://www.cafepress.com/mf/25653001/breasts-cant-hear_baseball-jersey

i have a lot of younger girls around, both nieces and their friends and my boys GFs. what they put on their body effects first impression. reality. with all things. we know this to be true.

"less competent, less intelligent, less moral and less self-respecting."

but, then, when my nephew (who is struggling with the dumb boy, but wanting more in his life) comes over with pants down like gangsta.... i have my thoughts on seriousness. and once, my youngest playing with pants down and i pulled it to his arm pit.

personally, i see a correlation with dress and how well the teen was walking their journey.

but then, for me the teen path is not about "fun". it is about learning..... LEARNING an adult role.

people may disagree i am sure. but the reality in our house.

not that i do not see all of life in fun, even being grown up.

but sexy isn't for girls until they're at least 17. (And even then, it's not so older men can act like predators, so we as a society need to crack down on men who insist they're helpless victims of their animal instincts. These girls are young, despite their appearance. That simply must be respected.)

And I hate that no matter what the age, we demonize them based on how they look. Society tells them to be sexy. It sets them up. There's no way to win.

i have heard moms that allow their girls to dress as street walkers say.... they cannot do anything about it. that is bullshit. two teens here. a parent, if has respect in a home, trust, a foundation, .... damn well can set boundaries. it is our job as a parent. we owe it to our kids. it might actually be work, but tough shit, we signed up for that. the kids need a boundary. they push. our job to set it. or we are setting them up in later life.

it allows them to see that they have the choice how others perceive. and if i see a parent without boundaries in dress i figure it is in other areas. i do not want my kid hanging out with a kid that cannot draw a line.

i do not want my sons to value the girl that thinks using her sexuality is a choice in life. too many grown women use sex to control and manipulate and girls should be taught this is not the answer in life, to equality and respect. that is what this is teaching girls.

and i do believe there is a time and place for sexy dress. it is not in everyday life.

for all of us, how we dress represents who we are. kids need to learn this.

my niece ranting that a business says no nose ring. suck it up, be responsible, and take the damn ring out of your nose. their business, their rules, you need to eat and pay your bills.

this is not only in sexy dress. it goes so much more beyond that.

that is why people feel "less competent, less intelligent, less moral and less self-respecting. ". it plays out enough to be a truth. not always. but enough.

i am on my kids ass now, cause we have all gotten into the habit of saying ya.... instead of yes. it sounds horrible in a more professional environment. it is sloppy, unprofessional and sounds illiterate and uncaring. i am beating it out of my kids and watching myself. when in professional environments or others where it is inappropriate i do automatically use yes. but i noticed my oldest was using ya.

it matters.

for us, anyway.

I agree there's a time and a place.

I'm just talking in general.

I agree women have to do a better job raising daughters not to buy the lie that all our worth is in our sexuality.

Fathers share in that, it is part of parenting.

And also consider how many girls are molested, and the effect that has on behavior.

but, in general.

So much truth in this post!

Questions like "why do you want to wear that; what's it FOR, what does it accomplish, fashion wise or socially. Or, are even blunter, do you want your cleavage ( or butt, or whatever) to be looked at? Why? What is it about those shoes do you like? (you have to get past the 'they're cute' pat answer)

Not judging, using open, age appropriate dialogue helps.



My youngest daughter and her friend all went through a neo hippie phase, which was interesting. Funky and comfortable seemed to matter most.

All that being said, there is an art to body decoration, there is an art to fashion. It doesnt have to be so fucked up for women. My standard is comfortable and functional, but, as my oldest daughter likes to remind me, I went through the short skirt high heels phase.

I saw a surgeon in a dress the other day while she was visiting a patient; the dress was awesome. Button up, scoop neck collar, Kind of a faint pinkish color, It had dark horizontal stripes, ended just around the knee with a slight flare. The waist had a cloth belt with a small bow. Shoes low heeled and sensible. The whole thing was attractive as hell, Nice summertime look. Not sexy, just an attractive dress. Although, I'm sure there would be men who would decide it was for their viewing pleasure alone.

agreed. and i like the story of how the woman deals with it and the younger women respond. thanks.

clothes for my best friends daughter who is 13. My best friend is having some financial issues so I thought I'd help with some new threads for the upcoming school year.

Let me just say that I was shocked at what I saw. Shorts that are way too short for a young girl. Shirts that showed cleavage. Very short skirts. I remember being young and wearing short skirts and such but these were REALLY short. I am no prude but I had to say NO so much! Poor Amanda... we had to go to four stores. Forever 21 was the worst. We ended up at JC Penny. They seemed to have more appropriate clothing.

Being childless it was strange to me. We ended up with many good things but they were really hard to find.

them, that you spent time with this young girl and that you did this for her. big thumbs up all the way around.

i was saying. She agreed that many things were not appropriate for her. I was happy to spend time with her. I was there for her birth and her Mother and I are very close.

Interesting though that as a young girl even SHE noticed that somethings were not appropriate. We ended up with almost a weeks worth of new clothing. I am so proud of her! She made good choices even though some of them I gently talked to her about what's appropriate. No arguments, after I explained she understood.

Thank You sea.. I appreciate your response.

Thanks for sharing! It gives me hope when I read what those of you who are connected to the younger generation see/experience.

i didnt have it in me. i would stand in the dressing room and she would bring me the outfits all put together. i hate spending money and i get claustrophobic after a short time. it has been a decade and a half since she has been gone, but she taught me how to put an outfit together.

my oldest pretty much takes my card and does his shopping, yea. but i have my younger son to do the school clothes thing next week. it is as hard to find things for these kids and they are as picky as any girl, lol. everything matters.

My Mother dressed me too. To this day we shop together.

Good luck with school shopping this coming week. It's a tax free weekend!

so busy and weekend. which makes it even more busy. i think i might try to do it this weekend. thanks.

maybe in the low end store the percentage is much higher. go into the higher end store and there is a greater selection of well made, classier clothes. havent been into the foerever 21 stores and stores like that.

what is w/ these stack heels like stilts? are they trying to kill women?

What is with so many things?

I'm reminded of a skit Billy Crystal did in the 80's on SNL, in which he played a fashion turd whose motto seemed to be, "It's not how you feel, it's how you look."

There's just a lot of obsession with superficial bullshit.


Also, I dislike the word 'whore' because it's pejorative. I hope you'll reconsider its use here.

I was at Target yesterday and the women's shoe department looks like Strippers-R-Us. WhatTheFuck?

All they had was stripper style shoes with platforms and super high heels, and a few ballet flats. If that isn't classic "Madonna/whore" I don't know what is. You can choose between demure, ladylike innocence... or porn star.

Nothing in between.

WTF are regular women who aren't interested in fulfilling some male archetype fantasy projection of "woman" supposed to do? It's like a damn costume shop.

(Step 1: don't go shoe shopping at Target.)

Fucking Target. Mainstream USA.

Again I say,

I remember when you had to go to very specialized fetish stores to buy shoes like those. Now fetish is mainstream.

Fuck that noise. It is goddamn offensive to me to be presented with that shoe selection at my local goddamn TARGET.

i love this.

i hate shopping. i do it rarely. i have to go next week for son. now i am gonna be lookin, lol

Business women, in professional environments.

Seems like a natural progression to me. Boob jobs, face lifts, stripper pole 'work outs'... is there any reason to think this trend should stop at shoes?

Push up bras for adolescents is just another part of the same problem (though I realize to many, this isn't a problem at all).

and more too. I cannot imagine how anyone can stand or walk in those shoes all day long!

I am so glad that my work uniform is scrubs and dansko nursing clogs! I could not imagine what I'd do if I was in a professional job that had to keep up with societal norms. Ugh.

and I am conflicted a lot of the time.

If I ever lose this job though, I'm so going to nursing school. FREEDOM!

I thought you were an RN? Am I thinking of someone else?

I did start working on a degree but once I reached the point where all the classes I needed to take were during the day, I stopped.

about it... sorry I was confused!

Interesting thing, Nursing is the only politically active, woman driven and woman dominated profession and you've noticed we generally take comfort and functionality into account over 'looks'--Unless we get into management. Even then, professional attire tends to be low key and practical. There are always exceptions, of course.
I don't wear standard scrubs tops though, I like tee shirts. If I have too many pockets, I put too much crap in them.

the only time i have been in hospital is having babies. sheeeeit, the doctor saunters in at the end. the nurse does EVERYTHING before and after. he catches. the last one came so fast, he was putting on gloves as baby was coming. figured the nurse would have to do that part, also.

Nurses are constantly misrepresented in the media; we are actually pretty badass, I refuse to watch any medical dramas because of the way nurses are usually portrayed, but I find nurses usually end up as a background character in fiction as well.

I work with a surgical group. Yes, I wear scrubs and surgical wear when I am in the suite.

I never have a chance to wear t-shirts although I'd love to. I layer in the cold months but that's about it!

I've found nursing to be rewarding for Women sometimes, others I feel the male surgeons have an issue. I've been doing this a long time. 20 plus years. I find these days better than even 10 years ago thank goodness.

Although not at a fast enough rate given gender in residency is almost 50/50.
There are large inequities in surgical fellowships, attendings, and tenured professors--positions of authority. There is a website devoted to these imbalances in medicine, I'll look for it and start a thread maybe.

She's as tall as short adults now, so she's in clothing that's generally for girls older than she is. It's very hard finding stuff appropriate for 10-year-olds, and it won't be long before she's so tall she'll have to be in adult clothing. The tricky thing for her now is finding stuff tall enough that isn't too big otherwise, as the assumption is that it's an average sized 14- or 15-year-old, not a very tall 10-year-old, who hasn't developed at all, so the clothes don't fit well regardless.

It is hard getting clothes for girls. Even for my younger one (3, but also very tall so in clothes for kids a bit older.) The clothes still, even for very young girls, sometimes look fetish-y. Like naughty schoolgirl style, or cheerleader style, or whatever. I'd buy it was just preppy schoolgirl if the skirts weren't so short.

There were some exceptions, but they seemed to all be almost down to the knee. The vast majority were the short shorts kind.

short mini skirt and revealing tank top. My daughter wanted the outfit and I told her it was not something a 10 year old should wear.

The clerk argued for my daughter saying that everyone is wearing that now--its the style.


Of course, I--very nicely--set the clerk straight.

not so much today. i have the same crap when it comes to my boys, with different things.

ah, come on, they are boys

i dont give a shit.

lol, ya, i hear ya on that one.

Glad you stuck to your principles. Your daughter learned a lesson that day.