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flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 04:36 PM Jan 2015

Progress on gun safety.

Although 2014 saw more laws loosening gun restrictions than tightening them the movement for Gun Safety saw major gains. In no previous year have so many gains been made by the gun safety movement. Everytown for Gun Safety now has 2,500,000 contributors, close to the 3,000,000 members of the NRA. Eleven states, even some red, have passed laws to reduce gun violence. The NRA lost on the appointment and confirmation of Vivek Murthy and new directions for real change have revealed themselves. As the NRA owns Washington DC the movement is going to the states. In the case of referendum I 594 in Washington State the NRA gave only nominal opposition which, I believe, means that they know that the general populace supports efforts to lessen gun violence and that they can't compete unless they own legislators.

This NY Times article is particularly illustrative: Fight on Guns Is Being Taken to State Ballots http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/03/us/gun-control-groups-blocked-in-washington-turn-attention-to-states.html?ref=politics&_r=0

Something I find even more encouraging are articles like this one: Are 2A activists defeating themselves while anti-gunners take control? http://www.examiner.com/article/are-2a-activists-defeating-themselves-while-anti-gunners-take-control When you have pro-gun nuttery activists like this making these points in The Seattle Gun Rights Examiner it means the campaign to reduce gun violence is making real progress.

One of the things we advocates for gun safety need to do is counter the charge that we are out to "take away all of the guns". It is a tiny minority in the movement that would like to see that happen and even they, in their heart of hearts, know that's impossible. I don't want to take away all guns. I do want to restrict modern military designs from sale to anyone with a checkbook. I do want to see universal background checks. I do want to see safe storage mandated. I do want to see mandatory training for first time buyers. I do want to see "may issue" be the standard for concealed sarry. I do want to see a needs based approach to concealed carry. I do want to see open carry prohibited. I do want to see a national registry of guns. But I don't want to take away all the guns.

The gun nuttery group, not all pro gun people but that tiny minority that seems to control the dialog, has done a masterful job of defining the conversation. For them it's a game of win/lose. For us it's an attempt to decrease the carnage. Any attempt to gain some control of the gun carnage in America is inevitably met with one of the following:

It's unconstitutional.

They want to take away our guns.

It's a slippery slope to total confiscation.

It's my right.

I must have guns to protect myself from the others who have guns.

All of these responses are either/or all-or-nothing stands.

I don't know how to wrest control of the conversation from them after decades of brainwashing done by the gun lobby but it's something that has to happen before we can have rational dialog.

In the short run we have to contribute to organizations dedicated to reducing gun violence, write/call/email our congress people voicing our support for reducing gun violence. We must write/call/email corporate citizens like Kroger voicing our opposition to run amok gun nuts in our midst.

It will be a long and winding road but one that we have made a prodigious start down.

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kioa

(295 posts)
3. The Gun Control Movement made progress for the GOP...
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 04:56 PM
Jan 2015

By getting the Democratic Party trounced in the last election.
Lost the Senate.
Lost seats in the House.
Put more state legislatures in GOP control than at any time since the Great Depression.

I-594, despite its supporters having a 7-to-1 spending advantage (thanks to the donations of Billionaire 1%ers like Bloomberg & Bill Gates) passed by only 60%-40% in a coastal state, showing the "90% support Background Checks" claim to be utterly unrepresentative of the reality.
I-594 is a toothless 18 page monstrosity of a law that is so unenforceable it was openly broken on the statehouse steps.

But nevermind all that; do tell, if gun control did so well, then how many gun control laws do you foresee so much as come up for a vote in the next 2 years?

Gun Control is an political dinosaur that has been put back to where it belongs: Irrelevancy.

 

kioa

(295 posts)
5. You recently expressed a disdain for echo-chambers and are convinced that
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 05:09 PM
Jan 2015

gun control made progress.
I just wanted to give you the opportunity to demonstrate your stated positions.

Careful. Such demands for group-think may make both of your statements look transparently false.
And would be terribly embarrassing.

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
10. extinct dinosaur walking
Fri Jan 9, 2015, 04:07 PM
Jan 2015

kio: The Gun Control Movement made progress for the GOP... By getting the Democratic Party trounced in the last election. Lost the Senate.

You attribute this to gun control? Smallish populated red states are more prevalent than comparative blue states. But, when you compare voters by overall votes cast, there's far more support for gun control proponents, which shoots down your premise:

[2014 election of] 22 Republicans and 11 Democrats, a big reason why the GOP has a 54-46 majority in the Senate ... those 46 Democrats got more votes than the 54 Republicans across the 2010, 2012, and 2014 elections. According to Nathan Nicholson, a researcher at the voting reform advocacy group FairVote, "the 46 Democratic caucus members in the 114th Congress received a total of 67.8 million votes in winning their seats, while the 54 Republican caucus members received 47.1 million votes."
...This doesn't mean that the Republican majority is illegitimate or anything like that. Indeed, after 2008 and 2012, the tables were turned: Democrats got more Senate seats than their vote share suggested they should. The problem isn't that the deck is stacked in favor of Republicans. The problem is that the deck is stacked in favor of small states, which receive equal representation in the Senate despite dramatic variance in population. http://www.vox.com/2015/1/3/7482635/senate-small-states

kioa: Lost seats in the House. Put more state legislatures in GOP control than at any time since the Great Depression.

You do understand the gerrymandering problem, don't you? As a supposed dem you should be touting the unethical practice of rightwing gerrymandering to stack the deck to elect republicans, rather than praising repubs as being justly representative due to being pro gun.

kioa: I-594, despite its supporters having a 7-to-1 spending advantage (thanks to the donations of Billionaire 1%ers like Bloomberg & Bill Gates) passed by only 60%-40% in a coastal state [Washington state], showing the "90% support Background Checks" claim to be utterly unrepresentative of the reality. I-594 is a toothless 18 page monstrosity of a law that is so unenforceable it was openly broken on the statehouse steps.

Let me get this straight. You oppose background check law which passed in Washington state? and you are unaware that actual voters in a referendum may or may not be representative of overall public opinion when including non-voters for that year? And do you whine so when the usual funding dichotomy occurs where the gun lobby overspends the brady bunch 10 to 1? Scat back to RKBA.

seattle news on I594 bill: ... To hear those gun rights advocates tell it, their grass-roots effort at curbing governmental overreach was sabotaged by the big-spending bullies in the Initiative 594 campaign. Traditionally, gun control movements have struggled to take on the all-powerful gun lobby and its NRA-funded attacks, while movements like I-594 are usually the ones holding the grass-roots bake sales. http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/thedailyweekly/955243-131/role-reversal-in-gun-battle-has But not this year. In becoming the first state to enact mandatory universal background checks by popular vote, Washington [state] flipped the script.

kioa: Gun Control is an political dinosaur that has been put back to where it belongs: Irrelevancy.

You're one the verge of falling into the same extinction distinction.

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