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flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 01:19 PM Jun 2015

A very permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Whenever the number of deaths by guns (30,000 a year) is discussed the first response from the second amenders is,”More than half are suicides,” as if those deaths don't matter. The second comment on gun suicide is,”They'll just use another method if guns are taken away.”

Both statements are bullshit of the highest order.

I have some personal experience with attempted suicide. One case was an acquaintance who shot herself with her father's pistol. She survived thanks to her dad's first aid experience. Her life is still in the toilet but after five years she hasn't made another attempt. A former son in law attempted suicide with over the counter drugs. Damn near did it, he was as close as the gunshot wound but recovered and is now happily married to his second wife and enjoying his second chance at living. Only 20% , one in five, of unsuccessful suicide attempts are repeated.

PTSD and guns is a lethal combination. The number of suicides by active duty military and veterans is increasing every year. From 2001 to 2014 the number increased from 10/100,000 to 18/100,000. Today that number is about 22 veterans a day. Sixty percent of successful suicides are by gun. Attempts of suicide by gun are almost never unsuccessful. Guns are extremely good at ending life. Support the troops much?

Gunners typically give lip service to mental health but seem oblivious to a gun's contribution to that very permanent solution to a temporary situation. The NRA is schizophrenic on the subject of mental health. On one hand they want to blame gun violence on the mentally ill but on the other they want to make sure people under mental health care can buy all the guns they want. Heaven forbid the family or friends of at risk individuals be able to remove guns from those people. They are in favor of gag laws to prevent health care professionals from even asking about guns in the home though. Big on the 2nd amendment but not so much on the first.

We need to involve doctors, psychologists and the general public in suicide prevention. As a medicare patient my doctor is required to query me on my mental state annually, asking about depression and self image but not about guns. Should a doctor discover a depressed patient doesn't it make sense to ask about guns in the house? We need PSAs to make people aware of the need for intervention in cases of PTSD and depression. We need to be able to remove as many methods of self harm from these cases as possible. That includes guns.

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A very permanent solution to a temporary problem. (Original Post) flamin lib Jun 2015 OP
triple whammy jimmy the one Jun 2015 #1

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
1. triple whammy
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 01:05 PM
Jun 2015

FL: Should a doctor discover a depressed patient doesn't it make sense to ask about guns in the house?

Certainly, a firearm attempt is approx. 85% successful, the others about 15% combined.
From pew's graph below, suicide by gun dropped 12.4% by total, from 1993 to ~2000, the same time period which pew, gss, & gallup have all shown firearm ownership rates dropping by ~25% or slightly more. There is a definite association, & an apparent correlation, between declining gundeath rates & declining gun ownership rates.
The declining 12.4% figure is somewhat lower than the suicide by gun RATE would be, when you account for population increases (which are not considered in the graph of totals). I think around 18% decline in suicide by gun RATES from ~1993 to 2000, a rough estimate I did using 1990 & 2000 census totals - 1993 ~260m, 2000 281m, 2010 308m. (1990 census 248m).
Similarly, even tho suicide totals have risen markedly from 2000 to 2010 in pew's graph (16,586 - 19,392) as gun ownership rates leveled off, the suicide by RATE only rose ~4% during that 10 yr period, while from 93 - 2000 it dropped ~18%. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

This coincides with drops in firearm homicide rates from 1993 to 2000; so a double whammy that the significant 1993 - 2000 drop in gun ownership rates are tied in with significant drops in firearm homicide rates, firearm suicide rates, firearm related violent crime rates. Ok, triple whammy.


Note the 60% drop in firearm related aggravated assault rate as well as ~50% drop in FA related robbery rate, during the 93-2000 time period, when gun ownership rates fell ~25%:

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