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hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
Mon Sep 8, 2014, 06:34 PM Sep 2014

Atheists challenging ‘under God’ need to win hearts, not just minds

Chris Stedman

This month, the Pledge of Allegiance turns 122 years old—but it has only included the phrase “under God” for half of that time.

Fittingly, the American Humanist Association (AHA) has launched a campaign asking Americans of all faiths and beliefs to boycott the Pledge (or “take a stand by sitting down”) until it is restored to its original “under God”-less state.

For the AHA, this isn’t just about history—they argue that the inclusion of “under God” is discriminatory, and that support for it reflects cultural anti-atheist bias. However, they think a history lesson could help, suggesting that educating Americans about the Pledge’s secular past could help increase public support.

- See more at: http://chrisstedman.religionnews.com/2014/09/08/atheists-challenging-god-need-win-hearts-just-minds/#sthash.HkD3LgB2.dpuf

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Atheists challenging ‘under God’ need to win hearts, not just minds (Original Post) hrmjustin Sep 2014 OP
"Take a stand by sitting down" goldent Sep 2014 #1
We're a stubborn lot, that much is for certain. AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #2
No chance in what time frame? el_bryanto Sep 2014 #3
I think the "take a stand by sitting down" campaign goldent Sep 2014 #4
Christians and Jews then? el_bryanto Sep 2014 #5
I guess it would be up to the individual goldent Sep 2014 #6
There are also some religions that do not have a deity, or do not have a single deity. AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #7
A Muslim would be quite certain that it does. okasha Sep 2014 #8
Yes- but the people who insist that Under God be left in everywhere are fundamentalist Christians el_bryanto Sep 2014 #9

goldent

(1,582 posts)
1. "Take a stand by sitting down"
Mon Sep 8, 2014, 09:33 PM
Sep 2014

is simply not going to fly. While I think they have absolutely no chance, I've got to admire their determination.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
3. No chance in what time frame?
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 08:48 AM
Sep 2014

There have been lots of changes to our society that once seemed unthinkable - open homosexuality for example. While things aren't perfect for the LGBT community - it wasn't that long ago that they had to be invisible or risk legal prosecution. Perhaps this "under God" bit of the pledge, which is a bit exclusionary, can be reevaluated as we as a society evolve.

It comes down to the question of whether we want an America that is going to be welcoming to all different ways of thought on the subject of God or whether we want Christians to retain their position of cultural superiority.

Bryant

goldent

(1,582 posts)
4. I think the "take a stand by sitting down" campaign
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 09:15 AM
Sep 2014

itself has no chance. I imagine it will be a year or so before this campaign fades away. There will be future campaigns that might have better chances.

The "under God" phrase is exclusionary and not needed, but I don't think it is exclusive to Christians.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
5. Christians and Jews then?
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 10:01 AM
Sep 2014

I don't see how it could be applied to most eastern religions, and while Islam does believe in a monotheistic God, there is probably some difference of opinion on whether the God in "under God" is Allah or not - I think many Christians would very clear that that's not the same being.

Bryant

goldent

(1,582 posts)
6. I guess it would be up to the individual
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 07:02 PM
Sep 2014

as to how technically they would interpret the word "God." In this context, I'd give it a broad interpretation as applying to almost anything spiritual, even though historically it was inserted by a Jewish/Christian legislature. It would be interesting to know if Muslims and others feel it applies to their God.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
7. There are also some religions that do not have a deity, or do not have a single deity.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:10 PM
Sep 2014

'Under god' would be exclusive of polytheistic faiths, strictly speaking. And they notice the wording, you can be sure.

Most sects of Buddhist would not recognize a singular, unifying deity that could be colloquially referred to as 'under god'. They have such a concept as a supernatural god-like entity, but they reject a singular creator type god, and most importantly do not worship or follow such beings. (There are a couple, small sect exceptions to this, but they are numerically small)

Hinduism, or most sects of it, might have issues with that term as well. There are many more. It would require each individual exposed to the phrase to generously re-interpret the statement to match whatever they believe of don't believe.

Personally I wouldn't have anything to interpret it into. But that's why I've always been silent during those two beats when other people recite it.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
8. A Muslim would be quite certain that it does.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 08:30 PM
Sep 2014

Muhammad was very explicit that his revelation had its roots in Judaism and Christianity. "Allah" is simply Arabic for "God," and is so used in Arabic-language Bibles.

The ones who would argue the contrary are the right-wing fundamentalist Christians.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
9. Yes- but the people who insist that Under God be left in everywhere are fundamentalist Christians
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:51 AM
Sep 2014

Yes from a Muslim perspective it is the same thing; but I think that Muslims are sharp enough to know that when fundamentalist Christians insist that Under God be used, they mean under the Christian God. It's not a welcoming statement; it's a statement of division - America is for Real True Christians.

Bryant

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