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Ms. Toad

(34,074 posts)
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 10:25 PM Mar 2013

The "bad sex" threads in GD

I don't want to start a discussion in those threads, because it would turn into a flamefest. But because I have encountered women with similar experiences to those shared by Ms. March (writing as Delaney Anderson) in an earlier article (major trigger warnings), and I want to make sure that women or or men with such experiences aren't tossed under the bus along with the justified outrage at those two articles.

I spent a decade as a peer counselor at a rape crisis center, and some of the most challenging emotional situations to cope with came from family rape (or rape by an older trusted adult) in which the acts of rape or sexual abuse were physically gentle, and the survivor's bodies betrayed them by responding sexually - and those times of non-painful physical touch were often the only contact they had with the adult perpetrator that didn't hurt physically (because sexually abusive homes are also often physically abusive). The physical contact often started at an age when the survivor had no context to know it was inappropriate and may have progressed gradually, starting with minor boundary transgressions such as playful tickling in neutral areas morphing to sexual areas) The longer it went on, the younger it was when the rapist began the contact, the more tangled this twisted emotional link often became between rape/sexual assault, body betrayal, and pleasant physical sensations. The women I encountered who had these experiences often felt as if they must have encouraged it or wanted it (even more than is typical) because why else would their bodies have responded that way? They often had incredible challenges as adults naming abusive behavior because it was so hard to untangle the wiring that early abuse created. (And you may imagine I believe that part of what is going on in the second article).

At any rate, there are some really strong condemnations of Ms. March's first article - and I just wanted to share my view that this space should be a supportive corner even of DU even if part of you resonates with some of what Ms. March expressed in her first article.


12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The "bad sex" threads in GD (Original Post) Ms. Toad Mar 2013 OP
What I'm outraged about is Ann March's inherent dishonesty rocktivity Mar 2013 #1
I can't speak for how the rest of the group feels, or my co-host LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #2
I agree..this group is not about blaming the victim n/t angstlessk Mar 2013 #3
I agree with you... one_voice Mar 2013 #10
You don't provide support and safety by being an enabler. rocktivity Mar 2013 #11
I understood what you meant LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #12
I was not speaking to her second article - Ms. Toad Mar 2013 #4
thank you sigmasix Mar 2013 #5
Thank you. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #6
Unfortunately ... I stumbled into that thread in GD before learning about this group. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #8
+1 LiberalLoner Mar 2013 #9
The thing to remember is: This is a betrayal of trust. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #7

rocktivity

(44,576 posts)
1. What I'm outraged about is Ann March's inherent dishonesty
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 10:51 PM
Mar 2013

in claiming that her first "bad sex" was at age fifteen when it was actually at age four -- courtesy of her own father. It puts her objectivity on the line, to say the least. As you yourself say:

"The longer it went on (and) the younger (the victim) was when the rapist began the contact, the more tangled this twisted emotional link...between rape/sexual assault, body betrayal, and pleasant physical sensations...."

Should someone with such "twisted links" be allowed to "wire" others into believing that their negative sexual experiences are not always rape?


rocktivity

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
2. I can't speak for how the rest of the group feels, or my co-host
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 11:05 PM
Mar 2013

Personally I would rather have the issue of her competency stay in GD, and not come here. I would agree with Ms. Toad's wish that whatever may happen in GD with regard to this author's experiences and its effects, this group should remain a safe and supportive area for people who may have dealt with similar experiences.

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
10. I agree with you...
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 11:44 AM
Mar 2013

Safe, supportive, and most important no judgment or blame. Not here, not EVER! That's what I'm hoping for in this group.

rocktivity

(44,576 posts)
11. You don't provide support and safety by being an enabler.
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 06:09 PM
Mar 2013

I support Ms. Toad's justified outrage -- that's all I meant.


rocktivity

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
12. I understood what you meant
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 06:12 PM
Mar 2013

I just didn't want that discussion coming here, for the same reasons she laid out in her second post.

Ms. Toad

(34,074 posts)
4. I was not speaking to her second article -
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 11:25 PM
Mar 2013

and, as I suggested, I suspect the sexual abuse at the hands of her father influences how she views sexual relationships. At the very most, in her second article, she should only be speaking for herself - not implying anything else about anyone else's experiences.

BUT - what I don't want is for women (or men) struggling with the feelings they had as an abused child to hear (in the threads discussing her first article) that they are scum, dishonest, etc. because of physical sensations they had which they could not control - or to believe they must be ashamed of, or hide them, in order to receive support here.

This is not a space for political conversations. It is a space for supporting survivors, and because I know that experience is part of the stories of some survivors, I want to make it clear that my support is not conditioned on denying or hiding any part of their experience.

In_The_Wind

(72,300 posts)
7. The thing to remember is: This is a betrayal of trust.
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:07 AM
Mar 2013

A family member or a friend of the family can seduce a child without being noticed.
By the time behavior in the sexually abused child becomes apparent in social settings ...
it is too late. The child's boundaries have been breached.
There is no repair for that early awakening into the adult sexual world.


I can remember what it was like when my stepmother's nephew seduced me
the first time. I needed counseling that only came as an adult.
The partway to recovery is a multi step process.
Unfortunately is one that no one can do for us.

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