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Playinghardball

(11,665 posts)
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 04:23 PM Jun 2015

It's Official -- Bernie Sanders Has Overtaken Hillary Clinton In the Hearts and Minds of Democrats

According to PBS, Bernie Sanders is "gaining against Clinton in early polls." Salon's Bill Curry believes "Hillary Clinton is going lose," primarily because millions of voters longing for a truly progressive candidate will nominate Sanders. POLITICO explained recently that Early-state polls hint at a Bernie Sanders surge, a headline that was unthinkable only several months earlier. Yahoo's Meredith Shiner calls Sanders a "progressive social media star and pragmatic legislator" and states that "Sanders also has a much more substantial legislative history" than any GOP challenger. In Iowa, 1,100 people packed a gym to hear Bernie Sanders speak in May.

In contrast, Team Hillary had an intimate business roundtable discussion with five "ordinary" Iowans. The only problem was that according to The Washington Post, "All five were selected to attend her events." In fact, Clinton's "staged roundtables" were attended by a total of 13 Iowans, picked by either the campaign or the host.

Therefore, a paradigm shift has taken place. Many Iowans drove 50 miles to hear Sanders speak in Des Moines, primarily because Bernie Sanders has surpassed Clinton as the ideal choice for Democratic nominee. Regarding electability, Sanders has also surpassed Clinton as the realistic choice for Democratic nominee in the minds of many voters, because as one Salon piece illustrates, Hillary "just doesn't get it."

When it comes to everything from immigration to climate change and economic issues (most Americans side with Democrats, according to Pew research and other data) some writers believe that Democrats "can nominate a ham sandwich and win the presidency." Although once thought of as an impossibility, a closer look at the electoral map shows why Bernie Sanders could realistically defeat any GOP challenger. If voters around the country still care about middle class economics, the federal budget, trade and other hot button issues in 2016, Sanders has a legitimate chance to win. Also, since Sanders isn't tied to Obama fatigue like Hillary Clinton, it's quite possible the Vermont Senator re-energizes an America that just recently decided the Confederate flag doesn't represent its value system.

According to a POLITICO piece titled The 2016 Results We Can Already Predict, "Assuming the lean, likely, and safe Democratic states remain loyal to the party, the nominee need only win 23 of the 85 toss-up electoral votes." Therefore, there's no need to jettison cherished values for the sake of pragmatism; those days are over. Senator Bernie Sanders, known in Washington and throughout the nation as an advocate for middle class Americans, veterans, the environment, and other cherished causes can win crucial electoral votes just as easily as Hillary Clinton.

Finally, we're all asking a question that we've been too frightened to ask, for fear of seeming unrealistic:"Why Not Bernie?"

Not long ago, many Democrats emphasized realism over progressive values. Sure, Hillary voted for Iraq and has close ties to Wall Street, but she'll raise $2.5 billion, so doesn't this represent our best chance to beat the GOP? This mindset, however, ignored the fact that the Associated Press, Vice News, and others are suing the State Department for access to tens of thousands of Clinton's emails. A Bloomberg piece titled Hillary Clinton Monthly E-Mail Releases Must Begin in June Court Rules highlights the reality of eventual email disclosures:

The U.S. must begin to make public 30,000 e-mails belonging to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on a monthly basis beginning June 30, a federal judge ruled Wednesday amid competing proposals over their disclosure...

The State Department proposed releasing as many documents as possible at 60-day intervals, ending by Jan. 15. Attorneys for Vice News reporter Jason Leopold, who sued to gain access to the e-mails, proposed releases every two weeks.

Leopold's case is one of several seeking access to all or part of Clinton's State Department e-mail through the federal Freedom of Information Act.


More here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/its-official-bernie-sande_b_7660226.html
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It's Official -- Bernie Sanders Has Overtaken Hillary Clinton In the Hearts and Minds of Democrats (Original Post) Playinghardball Jun 2015 OP
Putting ALL snark aside, both Bernie and Hillary are just as surprised as some of us randys1 Jun 2015 #1
Fridays brunch with Bernie marlakay Jun 2015 #33
I don't know why they have to bring up the emails Grilled Charlie Jun 2015 #2
How can you not love Bernie? azmom Jun 2015 #3
Green Party Jill Stein needs to back out. glinda Jun 2015 #4
Agree totally swilton Jun 2015 #5
O'Malley deceit? daleanime Jun 2015 #9
google O'Malley deceit passiveporcupine Jun 2015 #15
Yes, she does. fredamae Jun 2015 #6
I disagree. Le Taz Hot Jun 2015 #8
Two words....Bush/Nader glinda Jun 2015 #10
Two words: Non sequiteur Le Taz Hot Jun 2015 #13
People invested in PATRICK Jun 2015 #16
+1 azmom Jun 2015 #37
I have been around many Green Party Members and the desire for change glinda Jun 2015 #22
WTF? pocoloco Jun 2015 #14
No, OP says "Hillary Clinton is going lose" SCantiGOP Jun 2015 #20
DURec for Bernie.....my choice for President. bvar22 Jun 2015 #7
Didn't you get the memo? Bernie is "unelectable". nt antigop Jun 2015 #11
K & R Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #12
K&R! n/t Michigan-Arizona Jun 2015 #17
is there a single poll to show why hillary is going to lose to Bernie? samsingh Jun 2015 #18
Because polls are like the magic 8 ball. cui bono Jun 2015 #25
no - claims are made about polls showing Hillary losing support - so what's the problem in asking samsingh Jun 2015 #35
Polls this far out are meaningless anyway. merrily Jun 2015 #28
Hillary down to 8 point lead In NH Robbins Jun 2015 #19
Democratic pundits had been trying since 2012 merrily Jun 2015 #27
Some were saying Robbins Jun 2015 #30
They thought if they said it enough, they would discourage everyone else. merrily Jun 2015 #31
Yep Robbins Jun 2015 #34
I wish O'Malley would go after her, not Bernie. But, O'Malley wants to win, too. merrily Jun 2015 #39
My husband and I Duval Jun 2015 #21
Hell Yeah ... Trajan Jun 2015 #26
Bernmentum BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #23
FEEL THE BERN!!! cui bono Jun 2015 #24
love the graphic!! questionseverything Jun 2015 #36
Love this! sellitman Jun 2015 #29
K&R nt raouldukelives Jun 2015 #32
Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Jun 2015 #38
K&R marym625 Jun 2015 #40

randys1

(16,286 posts)
1. Putting ALL snark aside, both Bernie and Hillary are just as surprised as some of us
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 04:29 PM
Jun 2015

I bet Thom Hartmann can barely believe what is happening, at least not this soon anyway.

This is amazing

marlakay

(11,491 posts)
33. Fridays brunch with Bernie
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 10:41 AM
Jun 2015

Over the years is how I got to know him. I have always admired the guy.

When I knew things have changed is when my 28 yr old step daughter told me she is for him and my 36 yr old daughter was after I told her who he was, before that she wasn't going to vote. Hillary to most means old stuff more of the same.

glinda

(14,807 posts)
4. Green Party Jill Stein needs to back out.
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 04:44 PM
Jun 2015

She admits to holding the same values as Bernie so she should not split the vote at all. She is making a huge mistake even with good intentions.

 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
5. Agree totally
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 04:53 PM
Jun 2015

Green Party and other non-major parties would benefit is Sanders won - i.e., he favor publicly funded elections. And given the most recent apparent O'Malley deceit, progressives need to unite around someone who can win.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
15. google O'Malley deceit
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 06:41 PM
Jun 2015

He's being accused by republicans of deceiving the state about growth and jobs (IIRC). Something got posted publicly that did not fit his campaign narrative and he had it pulled, and there are e-mails or something to prove it. Sorry...I didn't follow it too closely.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
6. Yes, she does.
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 05:12 PM
Jun 2015

If she cares...and stands by her own positions..she'll see and feel the "berniementum"....she'll do the correct thing....stand down...dive in and Help Introduce Bernie to more folks, imo.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
8. I disagree.
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 05:24 PM
Jun 2015

If, goddess forbid, Hillary "wins" the nomination, progressives who will not sell out and vote for the lesser of two evils need someone to vote for. The Greens are a good alternative.

glinda

(14,807 posts)
10. Two words....Bush/Nader
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 06:00 PM
Jun 2015

Now is sadly not the time anymore to dream. This is it. We are in crisis and have run out of time. The Greens will never be an alternative for a few more years but she could well get a good job should Bernie get in. She needs to back out. She will not win. We will all loose.
Do not underestimate the amount of stupid in the Country that will vote for a Conservative.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
13. Two words: Non sequiteur
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 06:16 PM
Jun 2015

The Greens are not going to split the Democratic vote UNLESS Hillary gets the nomination in which case the Democrats will lose the General anyway. Now, if Bernie gets the nomination? No split because the rank and file Greens will vote for Bernie and Bernie will win the General with their help.

You don't seem to grasp what is actually happening here. BOTH political parties are on the way to extinction if they don't start changing their ways and quit selling out to the .001%. Unfortunately, neither party seems to have a clue as to the populism that is about to overtake them. They can adapt or they can die out. Doesn't matter to me.

And please, quit pushing the Nader shit here. People are far more politically astute here and understand what happened in 2000, the role the SUPREME COURT played along with Tammy Faye Harris, Jeb Bush and the roll the media played in that whole fiasco. Nice of you to give all of them a pass, though.

PATRICK

(12,228 posts)
16. People invested in
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 06:47 PM
Jun 2015

status quo power cannot change even if they have a clue. To be there is to be in an absolute trap. What we MAY be seeing is a full scale awakening, not so much a political star rising but sunshine in a fake twilight world of Madison Avenue electioneering.

For Bernie to win people have to respond to his genuine representation of issues actually abandoned by the modern scene. AND to see him as what they want which is the polar opposite of all other candidates with the exception perhaps of O'Malley who has a shorter record of facing down the Beast.

Hillary on the other both is(with women voters especially) and isn't the epitome of a current political shoe-in regardless of actual policies or positions. The affinity with the gut desires for basic economic, peace and social progress is simply weak. In comparison to all other candidates and according to the game she is strong. Strong enough to have the GOP cowering behind their rancorous senile base of mean white males. The GOP is only viable through lots of money(which Hillary can counter) crooked media(which is stacked against her) and criminal election fraud(still largely unconfronted and daring beyond the point of a coup d'etat). Which is why you have to hold your breath until her just election reaches beyond a massive vote percentage and victory actually happens. The suspense is not about winning enough votes. It is about a moderate moderately supporting some people issues candidate overcoming fraud.

Bernie however is a sea change against this noxious nauseating game that nearly ignores the voters. It won't be about nail biting and working up enthusiasm but a 100% more genuine populist upheaval.

Otherwise in a declining and discouraging political scene you will start to get more right wing vicious momentum for "change", charismatic shells shills or stars form any side or finally a truculent military takeover such as the corporate nutjobs tried against FDR. The GOP is a fraud of an organization. A good chunk of big money Dems have joined that rush over the cliff. The field is left wide open to real progressive politics(suppressed)- or angry fascist suckerdom(encouraged by big money). Constant daring attacks against representative democracy, the right to vote and them foreign invaders.

We keep saying something new can upset the apple cart. Obama sort of took advantage of that. Sanders actually would. But will it happen? It may be now, or it may just be too early to say- or it may be doomed. And it is sad, dangerous, that we are relying on a popular contest of one or two people to put the banner that millions should have raised long ago.

glinda

(14,807 posts)
22. I have been around many Green Party Members and the desire for change
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 08:52 PM
Jun 2015

is strong. But I feel the times right now demand an urgent response which will not come with enough people voting green Party.
I do understand things even though may not have mentioned them all. And believe me....
I GIVE NO ONE a PASS.

SCantiGOP

(13,873 posts)
20. No, OP says "Hillary Clinton is going lose"
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 07:15 PM
Jun 2015

Which is about as ridiculous as the headline put on that story.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
7. DURec for Bernie.....my choice for President.
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 05:18 PM
Jun 2015

It seems a little early to be declaring VICTORY over the Hearts & Minds of Democrats.
Most Democrats in this country still don't know who he is.
We need to keep working.....even harder.

samsingh

(17,601 posts)
35. no - claims are made about polls showing Hillary losing support - so what's the problem in asking
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 11:54 AM
Jun 2015

for said poll?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
28. Polls this far out are meaningless anyway.
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 05:26 AM
Jun 2015

Early in 2012, Obama was shown losing to every clown in the clown car, including Mitt, and also to Mr. Generic Republican. Which of those Republican poll winners is in the Oval Office right now?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
27. Democratic pundits had been trying since 2012
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 05:20 AM
Jun 2015

to sell the idea that the Democratic nomination would be Hillary's. They kept saying, if she chooses to run, no one will even challenge her. Well, that was wrong. So far, there's Webb, Chafee, O'Malley and Sanders. It's not that they never say it coming; it's that they were trying to create a self fulfilling prophesy. So were prominent people in the party. So were the anchors at MSNBC and the Sunday talking heads.

As soon as Bernie said he might run, they treated him as though he were a joke. Now they treat him as someone who's making a surprising amount of noise, but who can never win.

The establishment would be very happy with another Bush Clinton contest. If that happens, I believe America will stay away from the voting booths in droves next November.

Robbins

(5,066 posts)
30. Some were saying
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 08:12 AM
Jun 2015

as late as early this year she may have no primary opporent.

MSM wants a Bush VS Clinton race.They are ignorent of fact both might lose nomination.

O'Malley Is likely running to raise profile in hope of getting VP solt and now he is doing Hillary's work in trashing bernie on guns.

People have been trying to sell Hillary is inevital and only she can win against republicans.

Campagins don't change overnight.Back In 2004 once dean and Gephardt went after each other it presented Kerry with opening.And
Democratic establishment declared Dean unelectable.Kerry was better In personal politics than Hillary is.People forget at end of
2007 Hillary was leading most polls.

She is camoaging by giving speeches and careful arranged photo ops.Bernie meanwhile will go on every media show that will have him even though most dismiss him.

CNN own poll says Bernie's rise In NH is due to men,liberals,and voters under 50 and i was attacked for saying that.Soon the talking point will be NH shouldn't matter it's mostly white state.This was state that saved her campagin at time by winning it after third place In Iowa.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
31. They thought if they said it enough, they would discourage everyone else.
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 08:16 AM
Jun 2015

Bernie thinks the middle class may be gone after another generation. He thought Warren might run. When she didn't, he felt he had to.

Robbins

(5,066 posts)
34. Yep
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 11:12 AM
Jun 2015

They are probally happy O'malley,chaffee,and webb in race.otherwise she would have a one on one debate with bernie which would be terrable for her.Chaffee and webb will defently go after her on iraq vote since that seems to their main issue with her.

 

Duval

(4,280 posts)
21. My husband and I
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 07:21 PM
Jun 2015

are for Bernie, and will be campaigning for him. He's our best hope for reversing the disaster of Wall Street/ultra conservatives. Polls have indicated that his ideas are supported and resonate with most middle class workers, and also with younger voters.







 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
26. Hell Yeah ...
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 10:21 PM
Jun 2015

I plan on getting more involved this time around .... It's for all the marbles this time ...

GO Bernie !

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