Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumGood ole NPR: "Exactly what kind of socialist is Bernie Sanders?"
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/27/434872755/exactly-what-kind-of-socialist-is-bernie-sandersThe kind who wants Medicare for all and more humane Social Security, motherfuckers!
See also: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/
The NPR article is not that bad:
"It's a relatively mild, I would say a vanilla socialism," Nelson said Sanders told them. "It's basically focused on big businesses, and capitalist inequalities."
Eric Davis, a retired Middlebury College political scientist, agrees.
"In Western Europe, these are mainstream political parties that are in and out of government all the time," he said.
Of course, Sanders is not running for president of Sweden. And for many U.S. voters, socialist sounds a lot like communist.
The bad news for the red baiters: 47% of Americans polled (ALL parties, mind you) would have no problem voting for a straight up socialist AND more young voters approve of socialism than approve of capitalism.
Deal with it!
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Esp. on this subject.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)It's a tribute to how badly capitialism is failing most people. Maybe we'll actually see the day when it gets trash binned.
navarth
(5,927 posts)Once he wins some primaries, he'll become really dangerous.
It is to be hoped that Bernie, his campaign, and we the supporters will be ready.
I'm already bugged that the media (including the compromised NPR) say socialist when Bernie describes himself as a Democratic Socialist. That difference is going to need some emphasis and I am among those who need to get better informed about it so I can have intelligent discussion about it when confronted with low-information voters.
merrily
(45,251 posts)One person who should never have posted in the Sanders Group posted on it. Aside from that post, the replies are pretty good.
I especially like the one from a found of the USA Democratic Socialist movement.
Fun Fact: Orwell, author of 1984, was a Democratic Socialist. Not exactly a "commie," not that there's anything wrong with that.
Also:
Einstein predicted that under such a capitalist society, political parties and politicians would be corrupted by financial contributions made by owners of large capital amounts,[3] and the system "cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society".
And that would be Albert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F
navarth
(5,927 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I especially like the reply of the poster who said focus on programs, not labels, or words to that effect.
This might help you, too, because many Americans seem to enjoy being in the majority: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777036
Bernie's record is right in line with the majority of Americans, and then some.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)The 47 percent figure doesn't seem like a positive. I bet it was higher in years past.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I don't really know much about the poll. For instance, was the question would you vote for a socialist for President if he or she were the nominee of the Democratic Party. For all I know--and I don't know much--people polled may have perceived it as a third party type question. Remember, too, that people of all political persuasions were polled and Bernie is not actually a socialist anyway. Besides, Bernie said that figure would go up before his campaign is over and I totally believe it.
The issue is not really whether people would vote for a socialist, but whether people would vote for Sanders if he were the Democratic nominee for POTUS, isn't it? And in match ups against Republicans, he does just fine.
BTW: Don't know if you noticed, but this is the Bernie Sanders Group.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Nothing but support for Bernie Sanders - I just didn't find that poll to be especially encouraging.
I think Sanders would do quite well as the nominee - especially given the buffoonery on the Republican side.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)this is going to be a big issue. The country is in big trouble and has been for some time. The people are aware of it and that is why they are coming to the meetings to find out what is going on and what we can do about it. I do not see any other candidate that actually has been talking about the issues.
They come to hear about that issues. And he gives them what they want. And at this point I do not think anyone is even thinking about socialism in any form.
fbc
(1,668 posts)You probably weren't indoctrinated with a fear of the word socialism.
For younger people, whose main exposure to the word has been the labeling of Obama and Obamacare, it's actually a positive term.
merrily
(45,251 posts)corporatist.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)idiocy. But you are correct - many people over 50 did not know the difference between communism and socialism and sure as heck did not know there was such a thing as democratic socialism.
I am extremely glad that the young voters are not so easily led as that. One reason we were easily led is that back then we had politicians that we actually thought we could trust. And many of them were honest. Nothing like today.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)who have destroyed the nation I grew up in.
fbc
(1,668 posts)also known as a Constructive Socialist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewer_Socialism
Trajan
(19,089 posts)C'mon ...
fbc
(1,668 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)Eugene Debs used the term to criticize socialists who actually got elected, and found themselves having to deal with lots and lots of the specifics of governing. Debs said something like "They are more interested in cleaning the streets than in marching on them." Guess what? When you govern, people care about whether the streets are clean and a bunch of other picky little things that always come up in daily life.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)of marginalizing Bernie.
Personally, I am getting sick and tired of all this "socialist" crap.
Do they know that the de facto business model here in the capitalist republic of the US is not a democracy, as they think, but it is a freakin' dictatorship? Perhaps we should be calling the business leaders, not entrepreneurs, but dictators!
Do they know that we have many aspects of our current "democracy" that are socialist? Like the military. But NOOOO, don't tell them that their beloved military is socialist. Don't tell them that anything in the so called democracy of the US is socialist, even though we are quite socialist.
And don't get me started on the "American Exceptionalism" crap. Yeah, Americans are exceptional. Many are exceptional idiots. (no intent to insult idiots).
zeemike
(18,998 posts)But I lost faith in NPR and PBS years ago when they were co oped by big money.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)jalan48
(13,865 posts)Besides that their broadcasters put me to sleep with their, soft, cool and hip delivery.
olddots
(10,237 posts)my bad joke but its true sometimes .
KansDem
(28,498 posts)I haven't listened to NPR since Cokie Roberts reported on the "Bush Charm Offensive" during the 2000 campaign.
Oh, and more Americans wanted to have a beer with George than with Al.
Oh, oh, and George gave out nicknames, too.
merrily
(45,251 posts)was a foreigner because Hawaii was "exotic." His grandmother was dying, but that did not faze Cokie.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)I stopped listening. I was so damned mad one morning, listening on a dog walk, that I almost smashed my "Walkman" on the sidewalk...never went back to listening.
But...as Bernie's audience grows and with social media...maybe we can finally give NPR an earful!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)People WANT a Socialist Democratic Govt because they have way more information on what that means due to being able to access more information and because of travel etc. No longer dependent on propaganda they are not influenced by the old and fading, diminishing Cold Warriors who haven't left them much of a legacy for THEIR future, another thing they are aware of.
merrily
(45,251 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The people who say that the loudest also were screaming about Iraq being behind 9/11.
merrily
(45,251 posts)We don't do that anymore, but we still do corporate welfare and for profit prisons.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)in 1978. Much easier to keep the people in control if they owe the state.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)A generation that sees the financial sector devastate the economy tends to become more open minded to new ideas regarding governance.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Either way, I'm ready for Bernie!
central scrutinizer
(11,648 posts)Haven't listened or donated for over 15 years - worse than Fox.