Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumfleur-de-lisa
(14,627 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,719 posts)MannyGoldstein
LooNix
NYC_Skip
Who else?
Matariki
(18,775 posts)His posts are so entertaining. It was difficult to not lash out yesterday.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Anything is possible, but it was not my perception of him.
And he was goaded, baited and trolled like no one else was, with the possible exception of Will Pitt.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)He was rightfully very angry yesterday and as 'hot headed' as I've ever seen him. It was the statement that he would write in Sanders if he didn't get the Democratic nomination. Given the anger level yesterday it should have been given a pass. In fact I think that statement said in anger during the primaries should be given a pass. During the general election, well that's another story.
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)For anyone to examine... So much for "transparency."
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)Better ban all 221 people who recced it then. If it was so bad, why didn't they lock it?
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Apparently he advocated maybe, possibly not voting for what he perceived to be a really bad Dem in the general. Advocating not voting for Dems is a no-no. But worthy of a time-out, if you ask me, not the ban-hammer.
Beartracks
(12,816 posts)So, I gather from that post he's really pro-Bernie. That's it.
I don't see the parts about hating Hillary, not voting for her if she's the nominee, and actively working to ensure President Trump/Cruz becomes a reality.
Perhaps he typed it in invisible ink? Cuz I sure don't see anything ban-worthy here.
=====================
mountain grammy
(26,626 posts)Pryderi
(6,772 posts)removed and have been reprimanded here before. I've been spending more time the past few years posting in FB groups and Twitter.
Sad to see DU sabotaging itself.
Stuart G
(38,436 posts)People were so pissed off about the events of the DNC. If the events had been settled immediately, quietly, Manny would still be around.. Many were so mad, that we often lash out.
Perhaps in quieter times this couldn't have happened but it was such a big issue in all the press. It took two or three days to settle things.. I agree, he should have been given a pass..perhaps Skinner tried to get him to remove the thread, but he was still too angry at the situation and the DNC. You know, we really do get angry here, and this is a fucken computer..correct???
Often we do not stop and think about what we are saying.. The head of the DNC took awful action, and we responded. If she had just shut up, and said that this would be worked out, (which she did not say)..actions might have been different..
Still I think Skinner should have given Manny a pass..but that is my opinion only...
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)femmedem
(8,203 posts)in the general get a pass until after the primary.
There are a lot of posters whom I appreciate, but Manny's absence will make DU much less fun.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Bernie isn't going to run as a third party candidate and is running as a Dem in the presidential election, so technically what Manny said (I'm going with what you posted since I wasn't really on DU yesterday) was not against the rules.
They are just looking for reasons to purge Bernie supporters.
!
PatrickforO
(14,578 posts)This Wasserman Schultz, she's got to go.
And, it does look like Bernie's campaign did wrong. But he's fired what, three people so far? So he's taking the bull by the horns at least.
Honestly, I think it is still a ratfuck - Bernie's guys just gave them a golden opportunity. Because why did DWS go to press instead of the police?
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Maybe we all need it at some point if we don't know when it's time to quit.
Manny just felt like family.
mahina
(17,669 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)of having to do those, yes indeed.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Plus a place where folks are welcome to speak their minds -- truly Underground in the since of that word - Independent Underground
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)And yet, still not banned.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,015 posts)Paka
(2,760 posts)For the most part I pass over his nonsense stuff.
QC
(26,371 posts)Credit where it's due.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Their likeness is a big blank, just like the countless points they try to make.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...than others.
Same as it always was.
jalan48
(13,871 posts)Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)has Manny been banned/exiled/hidden out of existence?
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)I guess you need to be careful around here.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Don't expect equal treatment to HRC supporters.
villager
(26,001 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)DonnaM
(65 posts)TOS applies only to Bernie supporters, apparently.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)CaptainTruth
(6,594 posts)... I don't even know what I have to be careful about.
Where's the OP that led to the ban? If I could read it I'd be able to see what to avoid.
As-is, I'm left with nothing more than WTF ... & that lack of transparency provides motivation to go somewhere else.
Sad.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)I think Manny said he (or she, I don't know Manny) would not vote for HRC.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...especially if you're a Sanders supporter.
If you're a Clinton supporter, and say you will never, ever, ever vote for Bernie even if he wins the nomination... well that's a different matter entirely.
All depends on whose ox is gored. And who is doing the refereeing.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)I guess it's safe to assume skinner is not a friend to Bernie supporters then.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Several years ago when he purged quite a few of us for standing up against homophobic attacks on DU. Even after admitting he was wrong months later he didn't reinstate posters he'd banned. I wonder what the other admins think about his leadership in these moments.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)supporter and this will probably get me banned too. MANNY! COME BACK!
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)for having a President of color (as if that's why we voted for him), and COMPLETELY ignored what had happened with Prop 8 in CA.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)To save any posting privileges here...."A President Of Color"???? WTF does that mean?
Where free speech is free and truly Underground - Independent Underground
Nite Owl
(11,303 posts)it was a very mean thing to do.
Iggo
(47,558 posts)He said basically as much before the primary season began.
We were warned.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Iggo
(47,558 posts)Emphasis on safe.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)A veritable: defy the emperor at your own peril - type thing.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Or so it has been said many times, without confirmation it could merely be a rumor.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Sen. Hillary Clinton
Expenditures, 2009-2010
Top Vendors/Recipients
Vendor/Recipient Total No. of Payments
Penn, Schoen & Berland $4,741,278 73
Internal Revenue Service $1,578,478 118
Utrecht & Phillips $665,895 28
MSHC Partners $397,112 18
Moskwa, Shelly $185,295 49
Shelly Moskwa is apparently Skinner's wife.
I don't know her curent involvement in Hillary's campaign, though I've read that she is working for Hillary still. Does it matter? Yeah, it probably does matter, IMO. I haven't seen anything approaching open disclosure of this relationship, and/or any other paid relationships between DU and Hillary or related groups. Such relationships should be out there and not hidden or they should not exist.
At this point it obviously goes to whether this site is an uncompromised and neutral venue for Democratic politics. When Skinner personally gets involved in banning Bernie supporters (I assume that's how it works) there is an issue there that would benefit from a lot of sunlight.
There is other info out there on his wife's relationship to Clinton, I won't post it here because it is on vile RW sites.
Beyond that, Skinner designed the old DLC/PPI website, and the hillarymojo site.
I think the jury system isolates some of the problems that arise from bias at the admin level, but outright banning is, as I understand it, done by the admins, and we're seeing how that goes.
A useful change to this site would be to implement a systematic procedure for banning rather than admin discretion. If Skinner wasn't so heavily invested in the Clinton campaign I wouldn't think it would be necessary, but that's not the world we're living in.
Without that fix, it's hard to see DU being a legitimate vehicle for anything beyond furthering the interests of the corporate wing of the Democratic Party. I like this place and want it to be better than that.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)At the beginning however he suggested that Hillary supporters should be nice to the majority of DU that supports Bernie so as to not disenfranchise voters... Guess that no longer applies.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)when the best writers and thinkers of the 80% of the members who support someone other than Hillary are shoved out, and the rest of the 80% follow, then the 20% left here on DU will have a cheap, bland, boring ghost town.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)My Heart Is A Ghost Town....
So appropriate, given the word Ghost Town....and the Second Verse of This Song.
"Died last night in my dreams
All the machines
Had been disconnected
Time was thrown at the wind
And all of my friends
Had been disaffected
Now, I'm searching for trust
In a city of rust
A city of vampires
Tonight, Elvis is dead
And everyone's spread
And love is a satire
And now I know my heart is a ghost town"
Kind of ironic of sorts.
Go Adam Lambert! - Independent Underground
dgibby
(9,474 posts)I'm sure I'll be able to live with the Ads going forward. I have no problem with any of the Admins/owners of this site backing any candidate. Having said that, I'd prefer they recuse themselves when terminating opposition supporters unless, of course, they apply the same standards to all (which apparently hasn't been done in this case).
Manny, I'm so sad that this has happened to you, but want you to know you're one of best satirists I've ever seen. Best of luck to you now and always. Hope your holidays are happy ones. You will be missed!
Hun Joro
(666 posts)greiner3
(5,214 posts)If it's any consolation, I don't feel bad about using ad blockers on DU anymore, not that I've ever clicked on an ad inside a web page.
Hell, if this is all true and becomes general knowledge prior to the election, there might just be a revolt.
villager
(26,001 posts)...simply confirming what most sadly know about the present state of DU.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Free speech...is not free...at least here...watch your step and march like a Zombie for her...or else.
Manny I will SO miss your posts...at least his voice cannot be suppressed on the big, wide Net!
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)but, for the record, the 1st Amendment doesn't protect speech on in Internet forum.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)I'm not sure if that's permanent or not. Seems to me, it would be pretty foolish to perma-ban the best writers on a site...even if you don't agree with them... but a timeout would make sense. Corrective action without necessarily silencing a voice. But that's just my two cents. If this is how things normally run her, I may have to building a directly competing website.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)sort of like McDonalds getting rid of burgers and fries.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)There was more money to be made in finance.
But it happens to all...they soon become cooped by money. And then meld with the system.
kath
(10,565 posts), without the stench of the DLC/ThirdWay/TrojanHorse/DINO types who have infiltrated the party of FDR.
Spirochete
(5,264 posts)I'd love to see someone like Cali, Willy T or Sabrina put one up. Third Way cementheads need not apply...
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)We're normally posters given a permanent boot are Ultra Right Wingers and Trump Supporters -- you know the one's that have little to no mind to use proper sarcasm to speak (type) on anything of substance.
Independent Underground
merrily
(45,251 posts)However, there is now a forum for Sanders Supporters jackpineradicals.org
nxylas
(6,440 posts)And it's the royalists who created their own site because they felt that HRH wasn't being treated deferentially enough on DU?
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)I'll miss his posts. They often toed right up to the edge of that line, but did so with a lot of hard truths.
I'll miss watching them catch fire and create debate.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)See you over there, Manny!
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Bookmarked.
Mbrow
(1,090 posts)haven't seen anything new for a while. damn i'm sorry they banned him, I just donated a 100 buck to this site, now i'm having second thoughts......
wilsonbooks
(972 posts)I just sent Manny a message through his contact info there.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)LongTomH
(8,636 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)See ya on the other side!
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Thanks for the link!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Cheers Manny, wherever you are! Telling it like it is, with your brevity.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)At times I balked and disagreed but I never didn't smile. If you're watching Rabbi Goldstien, you'll be missed.
Leftyforever
(317 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)Generally permanently.
Skinner did that today to Manny.
The term "tombstoned" comes from a previous version of DU software where in the banned poster's profile they inserted a picture of a tombstone.
Leftyforever
(317 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)nilram
(2,888 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Jackilope
(819 posts)Manny was on target regarding the third way infestation of the Democratic Party.
He also communicated the reason why the Democratic Party is taking such a huge hit and loss in members.
If he posts somewhere else, I'd be interested in subscribing there.
MsLeopard
(1,265 posts)I've been a member here since the beginning, literally. There was under 1,000 members when I joined in 2001 (yes, low post count....). Manny has been one of the best community members ever to post here.
Skinner - you've gotten the last dime from me you will ever get.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)It is funny how I found this place. From a Bama football site (full of right wing nuts) I learned about that dead right wing site. There I found Bartcop. There I first saw info on DU.
I went to the DC Bartcop gathering. Skinner was there. Short conversation with him left me with an uneasy feeling. Not so left as I like. This is a big part of his life and I guess he really want to keep it going. I still love much about this place but the current smell is strong.
Lots of good posters have moved on - many pushed - it is a sad thing
Not much room for real underground thoughts.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)It's going to get REALLY ugly.
I appreciated the hell out of Manny. He fought "The Turd Way" long and hard. Godpseed.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)[center]
[/center][font size="1"]From Wikipedia Commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eugène_Delacroix_-_La_liberté_guidant_le_peuple.jpg)
(Public Domain)
[/font]
Response to Jack Rabbit (Reply #43)
Recursion This message was self-deleted by its author.
Me and Manny
rbnyc
(17,045 posts)I will miss you a lot.
So much for the big tent.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)You can never run away from your problems. They follow you wherever you go. You need to address them head on. I am sorry that so many DUers seem not to get that. We need to fix the Democratic party from within, by building it's progressive base inside the party, not by getting mad and leaving it.
Yes, the democratic party just pulled a dirty trick on our best candidate, but it didn't bring him down. Let's turn it around to his advantage. He's still fighting and we need to stand with him and fight for the Democratic party to become what it should be.
I'm not advocating the tombstoning of Manny. I think under such circumstances, when the dem party plays dirty against it's own candidates, it is OK to be enraged. And I think maybe the TOS should be a little lenient in such cases. People are going to vent and blow up...even good long term users who understand the rules. Sometimes you just get so mad you say fuck the rules. It should not mean the end of long time DUer's. There should be a little judgement used in how the rules are applied when someone expresses honest anger and frustration, for a good reason. DWS did not use judgement in her sanction of Bernie's voter list access. I don't think Skinner used good judgement in not understanding this and permanently banning someone for being pissed at the DNC over such dirty tactics.
A lot of us are really pissed at the DNC. It's been building for some time and this was the straw that broke the camel's back for some. But please people...don't flee the party. Stay and stand with Bernie to try to fix it from within. That is the only way this is going to work. You don't have to donate to the party. But we need you to stand with us to change the party to it represents us, not republican lights. It's OK if it includes some blue dogs. That is the big tent that we need. But we need to build a strong progressive party. Let this fight be the standard bearer...let this be the anchor that brings us together and gets more people out to vote for Bernie.
rbnyc
(17,045 posts)...to be included in it.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)He wanted to not support the party, instead of working toward fixing it. He was willing to throw his vote to a republican (unless he lives in a state where he didn't have to worry about that).
I think it was a temporary frustration and rage response, and he would probably have voted for the dem in the general, no matter who it was, if it meant not having Trump or Cruz as President.
I can only hope so. He's smart...he knows we can't let the Repubs back in.
Chef Eric
(1,024 posts)wezl
(44 posts)MelissaB
(16,420 posts)Melissa G
(10,170 posts)MelissaB
(16,420 posts)Good to see you again!
Melissa G
(10,170 posts)Skittles
(153,169 posts)just like we had to keep Will's
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Response to Skittles (Reply #234)
Skittles This message was self-deleted by its author.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)but generally come back. Seems Manny has been here forever! I have been "very" careful about what I say though. DU has changed soooooooo much since I joined in 2004. But then so has OUR VERY OWN DEMOCRATIC PARTY!
I do recall the notice that anyone who said they wouldn't vote for Hillary was going to get banned and I have cautioned others who go to the edge.
It is sad, but I know better than to say much more. Perhaps someone needs to start a thread about the rule about Hillary. I remember it from a while back.
Any new members may not know about it. I don't want to be the one to start the thread though.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)that comes in from other sources.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)No more ad revenue for people who don't post here anymore.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)I consider that my protest.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I chose not to.
wilsonbooks
(972 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Which often provided the best laughs.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)starroute
(12,977 posts)baran
(92 posts)Always looked forward to your posts. You're one of the best -- I will miss you!
a2liberal
(1,524 posts)I see that he was tombstoned for supposedly advocating not voting for the nominee (p.s. has that happened to ANY of the Hillary supporters that say they won't vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination?), but I missed the thread where he did that and haven't seen any links.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Skinner changed his avatar before any other candidates announced. Then he created that ridiculous HillaryMojo site with our money.
He's not impartial.
werknotgoin2takeit
(172 posts)Say horrible things about Bernie. Threatened to not vote for him, to campaign against him and yet they are still around. Things that make you go hmmm...
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,015 posts)Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)It seems to me.... if I recollect from background reading during the LGBT "ethnic cleansing" that went on here about 5 years ago ( They reconsidered after a while and let some back in, but the LGBT Group is a friggin' cemetery now.) ....that I read that at least one admin was , essentially, a staffer, or an ex staffer to DEM pols.
Meaning.... it may be hard for them to think about this cycle w/o wondering how it might effect THEM, professionally.
If that's the mentality... I said "IF" .....I imagine Manny's penetrating insights might begin to irk after a while.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Grrrr...
CaptainTruth
(6,594 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Gonna miss your insights and wicked, wicked humor.
werknotgoin2takeit
(172 posts)I just posted in the Bernie group how I started an ignore list for the first time. Come back and find that one of my favorite posters has been given the boot. This is terrible. I've been here a long time and I don't want to give this place up but I'm feeling more unwelcome all the time. Manny I will miss you, sometimes your wit went over my head a first, but once I realized what you were about, you never failed to crack me up. I don't know what else to say really but... **shakes fist at the sky, screams incoherently to the heavens**
vt_native
(484 posts)historylovr
(1,557 posts)angrychair
(8,702 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)LongTomH
(8,636 posts)mentalslavery
(463 posts)According to skinners own explanation
Say he will not vote for the Democratic nominee if his favored candidate does not win the nomination, and encouraged other people to do the same. From the TOS: "advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground."
Seems as if saying that you won't vote for the democratic candidate is the equivalent of saying to vote for a republican or a third-party spoiler. Which is strange because what if someone is just a non-voter as many in this country are, then by definition they would not be voting for the democratic candidate. Can someone get banned for just saying that they are a none voter?
I hope skinner can re-evaluate this decision and take into account that manny was a passionate and hyperbolic poster and that debate is a good thing. Also, for me personally, when someone loses it and throws a fit about "how they are not gonna vote for the democratic nominee cuz its not their candidate".....that just makes me think less about the poster and the idea of not voting for the democratic nominee. I believe that others around here likely respond the same way.
This policy, and subsequent application, seems to assume that advocating for "not voting for the democratic nominee" influences people to "not vote for the democratic nominee", as opposed to the opposite. For me personally, I think it makes the poster look a little politically immature and naive as well as reflecting to a moment of weakness where their emotions get the best of them and they post something that is embarrassing. This is not to criticize manny's character as well all have said things in the heat of the moment or over the course of an election cycle we regret later.
Me thinks the punishment does not fit the crime. Also, I worry that if we don't have this dialogue then people really will become apathetic and not vote for the democratic nominee because they are not engaged in dialogue about the importance of electing a democrat. Part of the dialogue is pushing back at those that say they will refuse to vote for the democratic nominee if it is not their nominee.
Also, it is just really strange to have such strict rules for speech. I mean I can understand things like attacking people but this is borderline the type of things conservatives on redstate do and can create a situation where people are all just saying the same thing.....and that is boring...which means the rest of us might go elsewhere and ultimately the death of DU....which would be a shame because this is a really cool site with some really cool peeps!!
Hope I have not violated any TOS rules in this reply. Can say as I remember them all.....they are kind of like the terms of service agreements I post yes to without actually thinking about what they say or what they mean....
840high
(17,196 posts)heart and gets me angry I will miss him.
mentalslavery
(463 posts)it was a meaningless statement from manny at this stage of the game.....
CaptainTruth
(6,594 posts)Simply saying "I won't vote for A" is not the same as saying "You should vote for B." Trying to equate the two is logically inconsistent.
Of course without the OP to read, we're all left guessing as to what he actually said. (Does anyone have that?)
Re: "Also, it is just really strange to have such strict rules for speech. I mean I can understand things like attacking people but this is borderline the type of things conservatives on redstate do and can create a situation where people are all just saying the same thing."
Agreed. If we all just say the same thing it turns into an echo chamber. Personally, I think most DU members can handle a bit of dissension & talk it out, helping each other come to rational conclusions.
Of course if someone is banned, those discussions won't happen. We won't be able to "talk someone down," explain the error of their ways, & bring them back into the Democratic fold. A person who was (probably temporarily) disillusioned with Democratic party will no doubt be even more disillusioned after being banned from a website that claims to be the "Democratic Underground." What was probably a temporary (& fleeting) feeling will become more entrenched, stronger, longer-lasting, & perhaps even permanent ... so the banning may end up resulting in one (& probably more) lost Democratic votes ... exactly what it allegedly was intended to prevent.
It's sort of like bombing people until they stop hating us. It's short-sighted, misses the big picture, & ultimately never works.
*waiting to be banned for honestly speaking my mind*
@TruthTeamOne
Paulie
(8,462 posts)I can only remember a handful at all, and and vaguely remember maybe a single reversal since DU3 came online.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #96)
Name removed Message auto-removed
marble falls
(57,112 posts)beltanefauve
(1,784 posts)and I lurk waaay more than I post. I learned about DU while being held in a makeshift cell at Pier 57 in New York. I was one of over 1900 people who was arrested at the RNC. I lurk as much as I do because there are so many gifted, informative posters here saying what I'm already thinking, oftentimes better than I ever could. I'm saddened by Manny's TS, and I'm really concerned about the direction DU is going in. There are way too many Third Way and DINOs on this site now.
Manny, you are missed.
werknotgoin2takeit
(172 posts)I've been on this site for a long time too. Many more before I made a profile and started to post. So many great articles and writers. Learned so much. Find that I spend more time on Reddit these days, strange for an old fart like me. Might have to increase that time. I hate seeing all these familiar names that I enjoy so much fall away. Now I will be waiting for the next ax to fall.
yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)and he is funny too.. I will miss him also.
sorechasm
(631 posts)
Were not winning the thing yet, but were making damned good progress.
First they steal your money
Then they moon you
Then they steal your message as candidates, then moon you once elected
Then you win
Unless you let them get away with co-opting your message
Mahatma Goldstein (with deep apologies to Mahatma Gandhi and all sentient beings everywhere)
Hilarious. Find it here:
http://mannygoldstein.net
We'll sure miss you Manny.
yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)sou desune! (That is the truth, yes indeed)
sorechasm
(631 posts)For my (someday) trip to Tokyo.
Thanks yuiyoshida!
A friend of mine just left for a Holiday in Japan.
yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)She went and watched STARWARS at Midnight and early the next morning flew to Tokyo. She will be there till after January 24th, with her family. Gonna miss Reiko, but I will find things to do over the holidays.
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)A superb satirist and chain jerker, this place has just become a lot duller.
marble falls
(57,112 posts)was a high light of being on DU. Now we've got none of them. DU is a less rich place to be because of it.
CaptainTruth
(6,594 posts)Duppers
(28,125 posts)What'll I do for my Manny fix?
AzDar
(14,023 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)I hope that you will be allowed to return.
I wonder, who is purged next?
The holy inquisition seems to be very busy!
What will it do, when most of us leave? There
will only be the sheeples left.
Response to Bubzer (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
blackspade
(10,056 posts)A ridiculous tombstoning.
Stay Well Manny!
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)I think he is a great poster, who is passionate about genuine democratic ideals.
Owl
(3,642 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)last1standing
(11,709 posts)This was a stupid move on the part of the admin. Being in the bag for corporatists is one thing, silencing other opinions is another.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Thank you for this thread, Bubzer.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Ned Flanders
(233 posts)I'm a long-term lurker at DU, with nowhere near the number of posts which give one "celebrity" status around here, but I hope you can take a moment to consider my experience with DU.
I was raised Republican, voted for Reagan, but came around about the time they were investigating Bill Clinton's penis. But I still had some rather right-of-middle views, based largely upon my ignorant conservative upbringing. And then I found DU. Democratic Underground (and Bartcop) were instrumental in giving me the information I needed to change course, to recognize the injustice and mistakes of the Republican/Conservative agenda. As I spent more time here, my philosophies and beliefs about life and social justice have changed, I think, making me more Progressive. It is ironic that even as I move to the left, my party has moved more to the right.
I have taken in new information and evolved accordingly. Why hasn't DU? How can you continue to support a candidate who clearly represents the old, corrupted way of doing things? I cannot believe that I have evolved politically to the point where I am considered "far left," but DU is still supporting a candidate who has called herself a moderate, and acted even more to the right.
Skinner, and you other admins: I am calling you out! Can you take a moment to explain why you apparently support HRC? I understand the need for unbiased moderation, but really, you have displayed bias by your silence. To paraphrase some brilliant dude, "in situations of injustice, when you remain silent, you have chosen to side with the oppressor." So really, can you make a stand in support of your candidate?
It should be overwhelmingly clear by now who is the best candidate for President. To those of us who support Bernie Sanders, it is completely unfathomable why any good Democrat would support HRC. If we come across as shrill or overbearing, it is because of our shock. I mean, WTF, really? We have watched the conservatives using all manner of dirty tricks, including fabricating bogus "scandals," so it is very clear to us, and very disappointing, when one of the "good guys" like HRC uses those same tactics. I mean, Mr. Sanders was honorable and honest enough to defend HRC during a debate against the email "scandal." Yet when a scandal is fabricated against Bernie, she remains notably silent, and allows her cronies to wage a full-on media war against him.
We laugh at Trump because he is endorsed by Putin, but when the bankers endorse Clinton, some say it means nothing. C'mon, folks. If it walks like a duck...? Or do you prefer Occam's razor, ya know, the most likely explanation thing?
We have "free speech zones," in the guise of "candidate primary forums," where you aren't allowed to speak any ill will of the candidate. Such forums only facilitate cognitive dissonance.
And members who express their displeasure too forcibly are banned. All opinions are not welcome. There is a difference between Manny and your average conservative troll. By lumping him into their category and silencing him, you have shamed yourself and diminished the quality of DU. What a bummer. I guess I'm next....
Utopian Leftist
(534 posts).
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)Sad he's gone.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)There do seem to be some seriously humorless people around here.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)They tombstoned Manny??? FUCK THIS BULLSHIT
Skinner you need to do some soul searching, brother.
Fucking WRONG. Think it through. You are hurting people that trust you.
CaptainTruth
(6,594 posts)tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)From the 'transpareny page', Skinner wrote: Say he will not vote for the Democratic nominee if his favored candidate does not win the nomination, and encouraged other people to do the same. From the TOS: "advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=176002&sub=trans
Does anyone have a copy of the offending post? Is saying one will not show up and vote the same thing as saying one will vote for a Republican nominee or for a third-party candidate? Can anyone post the actual comment that supposedly was the offending comment? It would be nice to know how badly or even if the TOS were actually violated, or if this was a heated misunderstanding and capable of being corrected this weekend.
Thanks
* and yes, I can understand how someone who is operating a website and in support of one candidate would like to downplay others who do not support the same candidate/issue, but I think this place would be pretty lame if there weren't for opposing views stirring up the conversation.
Who wants to discuss important politics with a mirror?
Owl
(3,642 posts)pacalo
(24,721 posts)I always have -- makes me feel dirty just thinking about those who try to get their peers in trouble.
I've seen the foulest personalities return from one 90-day suspension or another (regular schedule for some) & they're STILL HERE.
Just sickening.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)It's going to drive the protected group invaders...nuts.
Autumn
(45,109 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Paka
(2,760 posts)I always looked forward to his postings. Whether he was in his humor mode or his serious mode, he was always a pleasure to read.
midnight
(26,624 posts)DonnaM
(65 posts)What you have done speaks volumes.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)If you cannot be assimilated into accepting neoconservative positions. Your on a short rope around here.
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)because I enjoy his writing too much to just let it go.
CaptainTruth
(6,594 posts)... the greater the chance they'll be banned.
It certainly discourages me from contributing. I'll continue ranting on Twitter @TruthTeamOne.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)I don't want to lose contact.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)We're both friends of Will Pitt on FB and he popped up on my page as a suggested friend. His page doesn't look very active though. I hope he keeps in touch. Will would be a good liason because he has many DUers as friends on FB. He even posted a notice of Manny getting banned.
Manny, you will be greatly missed and DU is the lesser for your ban. Find a new outlet for your writing, and let us know where we can continue to enjoy it. Solidarity, my friend.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)Was happy to see that he knows we care about him.
Bonhomme Richard
(9,000 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,368 posts)That also goes for the other long time posters that have been suspended over the heat of the primary.
Thanks for the thread, Bubzer.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Signed,
Third Way KamaAina
zentrum
(9,865 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)many have L0onix's bug, or even a swarm thereof--this is all out of soldarity
and compare it to the little-kid nastiness of other DUers, deciding that grave-dancing against L0onix is so important they have to commemorate the joyous day in every post they ever made (since it's retroactive); they're *happy* they ran off another DUer, *proud* that they told teacher
everyone's lashed out on DU at one point or another for one reason or another (thanks so damn much, cheep beer) but this whole "I can have any one of you 'got'!" swagger is lashing out in every post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027460023
Utopian Leftist
(534 posts)Manny, I sometimes saved your threads for last because I needed a good laugh and knew that you could reliably be counted on to make me laugh.
I can't believe you have been taken away from this place, and I can't imagine what it will be like to go forward without you.
I do wish the admins would reconsider this policy, as it obviously has silenced many intelligent, thoughtful and entertaining liberal minds. Have you never spoken hastily and later regretted it? Is it not harsh punishment to be banished from one's community for what appears to amount to free-thinking?
Fortunately for me, in my heart of hearts I know I will always vote against the RepiglyCONs. They repulse me to no end. But can this place not allow for moments of passion?
senz
(11,945 posts)on the thread they used to invalidly ban him. And it was invalid because he did not advocate voting for or against anyone. What I wrote came from the heart, and I shared it with friends and enemies alike, so here it is:
------------------------
What stands out about Manny for me is his refusal to be cruel or vindictive toward those who repeatedly verbally abused him. He is consistently kind and polite. That's character. And yes, Hillarians, it matters.
I respect and admire Manny and am grateful for the light, laughter, and humanity he has brought to this website. The admins should be grateful for what he gave to them.
Manny, if you're reading this, know that you are loved by many -- and enjoy it. Because you truly do deserve it.
--------------------------
Most of the Hillarians I seriously do not like, but even more for their gloating about Manny. They just aren't nice people.
Would love to read this thread, but the debate is starting soon, so, will catch up later.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)to Manny's comments.
Uniting a party is not by silencing opposition, nor stretching the TOS rules to silence a long term member.
It's not losing face to reinstate him.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)PLEASE someone give me a link
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)Some here will miss him the rest of us will not miss him we will be where he is still holding forth
deutsey
(20,166 posts)but I've always appreciated MannyGoldstein.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)a true Progressive.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)CaptainTruth
(6,594 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)and we are going to be able to read his wonderful wit elsewhere. Go Manny, one of DU's best, now DU's great loss.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Gonna K&R this thread every time I log on.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Take the high road, please.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)This place will be a ghost town when the 80 percent follow their best and brightest somewhere else, and the only ones left are the 20 percent. Picture tumbleweeds rolling down the street in GDP. A scraggy coyote lounging in the corner.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)Dante' of sorts.
leveymg, are you over at jackpine's place? You must be there.
QC
(26,371 posts)There absolutely should be some form of reasonable pathway back to DU for those who may have overstepped, but are clearly Dems, such as Manny. Anything less is advocating a digital aristocracy, and is decidedly anti democratic IMO.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Scruffy1
(3,256 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)of incivility and just downright nastiness - someone who also said that they would support Trump over Sen. Sanders:
Douglas Carpenter (19,801 posts)
129. I pledge to support Hillary if she is the nominee? Do you pledge to support Bernie if he is the nominee?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=868787
-----------
131. Absolutely not
I'm a Democrat. He is NOT a Democrat. I wouldn't vote for him if you held a gun to my head, just like I would never and have never voted for a republican in my 38 years of voting. In fact in the minuscule chance that he was nominated I would never give another red cent to the party, knock doors, or phone bank for Dems.
Not in a million fucking years. And frankly, at least 50% of that feeling could be credited to his supporters who have spent the last several years smearing the shit out of real Democrats.
So no, never, ever, ever would I vote for him. Never.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=868804
MisterP
(23,730 posts)started hotlinking them
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I have just demanded a tombstone for this poster, who obviously has committed a capital offense.
Alkene
(752 posts)Fuck that shit,
and the corporatist horse it rode in on.
Done.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)One by one, the ones with insight and who prompt positive, although sometimes heated, discussions are getting banned. Soon DU will be a one note chorus.
We love you and will miss you, Manny!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)lastlib
(23,251 posts)We are poorer for your absence here, for the wisdom and humor you would've brought to this site--but we are far, far richer for your having been here to kick our intellectual butts when we sorely needed it. Good travels, friend! Keep up the fight!
Jeroen
(1,061 posts)catrose
(5,068 posts)MelissaB
(16,420 posts)He will be missed.
I still can't believe this happened.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)who knows we deserve and need someone better to represent us. She's got money and power. Apparently some people are attracted to shiny objects more than others.
We're all conservative now, I guess, thanks to the void left behind by radical Republicans. Wall Street moved quickly to fill that space with Hillary.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...due to overzealous policing of posts from, how to say this, *some* of the members here.
Others seem free to thumb their noses at the rules altogether.
It's one thing for the admins to have a preference. Bully for them (sincerely), they get to. But it should not spill over into biased actions.
At least two examples were posted in the last couple of days, of posts from DUers stating unequivocally they will not vote for Bernie Sanders if he is the nominee. One of them survived an alert and neither poster was banned.
Gosh. Imagine that.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...this may come back and bite Skinner et al right in the ass.
Namely: although I recently donated for my star, I won't be doing so again. I'm quite sure I am not the only person who feels this way. I'll set up an ad blocker and do without the Advanced Search function (really the only extra that I use).
Yep, it should be interesting to see going forward how many star renewals there are. When their own internal polls show 85% of DU supports Bernie, and when the admins decide it's war on Bernie supporters, well, that can't end well.
Again, I will not donate to DU again. Period.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)posters known even for investigating scandals, and a whole constellation of donor stars
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Especially seeing: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=86773
DU obviously doesn't consider long-term posters who've voluntarily drawn thousands of comments and participation in threads that took time, thought and commitment to contribute to this site. As compared to the above poster whose only contributions have been mostly vicious and mean snarky replies. So many great, brilliant, witty and kind posters gone, while those who are obviously favoured are allowed to post blather day after day. I hope they quadruple their contributions to the site .... if money ever meant anything here, they'll have to make up for those of us who feel we've been used, and probably even much laughed at behind the scenes for all the many hours we spent trying to contribute interesting material to discuss as progressives - even though we probably were never on the same page we thought we were here. The joke is on all of us. Thankfully there's another new space, with over 650 members in just a few weeks, where many of those brilliant people are now contributing and doing real things to make a difference.
Manny deserved better. As did many others.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)This site was never for progressives, or even liberals really. It just seemed that way when compared to Bush and Free Republic.
polly7
(20,582 posts)So many of us spent years here happily participating thinking we were all mostly of the same mindset - that unacceptable is anything that hurts the planet and the people on it. I haven't spoken of the candidates here previously because I'm Canadian and consider it not my business ........ but fuck that, now. Fracking, war-mongering, a 'feminist' that doesn't give a fuck about the horror and death for so many women and children around the world that have suffered for the same belligerent, mindless, power-hungry need to control the resources of the planet as Bush's cabal - and only those who defend her with the slimy tactics they use here are immune to what others have been driven off for. It's obvious, and it does hurt. I can only imagine how those who've been thrown out here after a decade plus must feel. I'll probably be next. Who cares.
merrily
(45,251 posts)that, in four words at the end of the post, MannyGoldstein said "Vote Bernie next November." Supposedly, that was telling people to vote for Bernie, even if Bernie was not the nominee." And encouraging others made all the difference, both for MannyGoldstein and LOoniX.
If it was ever on this board that it was okay to say I will never vote for Bernie, ever, but not to say Vote Bernie in November, I missed it.
I don't think people should be banned unless a distinction like that was made public first. I asked about that in ATA, not only for Manny but for others in the future.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I'm glad that was asked ... I wish the second reply had been responded to. I know Manny and others who've been gotten rid of here are enjoying the new site - so many familiar people there who actually care about what I thought everyone did here - it's just the unfairness of it. It honestly doesn't even make sense to me, reading the original post and the comments re it being allowed to stay and rec'd by so many people. Done is done ... but I just stumbled across this again today and it still bugs me.
merrily
(45,251 posts)a lot about how many were bugged, esp.since jackpine was in the early stages of testing at the time. So do the numbers of recs on the several appreciation threads that were started the day or two after he was banned. Of course, the site is about helping get Bernie nominated, too.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I feel bad, I haven't had time to do much reading there lately. A good friend lost her battle with cervical cancer four days ago, I've been back and forth to the city with her before her last hospitalization since just before Christmas. DU has been my homepage for so many years it's just habit to open it up first when I have a few extra minutes. jackpineradicals.org is what this place used to be for me - somewhere to spend a lot of time if I have it. I couldn't believe how many members are there now. That's so great.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Manny is over there. DU insists on poisoning itself so be it. Let DU experience the power of the market. Start getting Into the habit of posting over there. They want an echo chamber so bad. They can have one.
merrily
(45,251 posts)affect whether or not the banning was fair.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I have no problem with people posting about it, if they wish.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)only sandbox in town so to speak.
I would love to shove the free market down the bullies and conseradems throats here.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)along with many other past DUers. I'm trying to transition to there... but its gonna take some time. The set up is fairly different.
delrem
(9,688 posts)I especially like that the discussions are about long term issues.
Not overwhelmed by the horse-race mentality that the MSM thrives in, the hucksterism peddled by such as David Brock and FOX.