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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
Wed May 1, 2019, 11:20 PM May 2019

Joe Biden doesn't owe me an apology. Clarence Thomas does.

Joe Biden doesn’t owe me an apology. Only Anita Hill can speak to what he owes her, but as “the uncalled witness” in the 1991 Senate confirmation hearings of Supreme Court nominee Clarence Thomas, I believe we have more pressing issues than whether Biden has sufficiently apologized for what did or did not happen almost three decades ago.

Let’s get our priorities straight. We can discuss ad nauseam whether Biden acted appropriately during those 1991 hearings, and whether he’s too touchy-feely now. But why allow those issues to derail his presidential bid when the vulgar, always inappropriate current occupant of the White House has bragged about groping women and entering dressing rooms to ogle half-naked girls during the Miss Teen USA pageant? At stake is the 2020 presidential election, and if we don’t keep our eyes on that prize, we might find ourselves trumped again.

As chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee 28 years ago, Biden performed poorly; his lack of support for Hill was appalling. Hill says Biden promised her that she would be allowed to testify first. Everyone knows now that didn’t happen, a turn that allowed Thomas to frame the hearings to his advantage. Biden could have done more — or at least tried — to moderate the heartless grilling of Hill by his Senate colleagues. He could have called me to speak to Thomas’s behavior, thus backing Hill’s testimony. Yet he chose not to. For Hill, Biden was about as useful as an umbrella to a skydiver.

But let’s keep things in perspective. The Thomas hearings were extraordinary for any number of reasons. Hard as it might be to imagine now, there was no national conversation about sexual harassment before the hearings. Secondly, the all-white, all-male Senate Judiciary Committee in 1991 had not the first clue about how to handle the accusations of a clearly accomplished, reputable, African American female law professor against an equally accomplished, African American male appeals court judge. Sensing the senators’ unease, Thomas played his race card in his opening remarks, declaring that the hearings were nothing more than “a high-tech lynching for uppity blacks who in any way deign to think for themselves.”

...


This is not the time to ask Biden to answer for what happened 28 years ago. We need him to carve us a pathway forward. He doesn’t owe me an apology. But I will tell you who does: Clarence Thomas.

Read more:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/joe-biden-doesnt-owe-me-an-apology-clarence-thomas-does/2019/05/01/fb7577d6-6c2f-11e9-be3a-33217240a539_story.html?utm_term=.45f81cafa32b

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Joe Biden doesn't owe me an apology. Clarence Thomas does. (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth May 2019 OP
That's a good statement. ucrdem May 2019 #1
Her attorney says he was with her waiting all day long to be called and she was expecting pnwmom May 2019 #3
As I said, it isn't clear. ucrdem May 2019 #4
Of course it was clear. Why does she have to make herself a target of haters forever pnwmom May 2019 #5
Nevertheless, she didn't say it. So it remains unclear. nt ucrdem May 2019 #7
What remains unclear? She was sitting in a hotel room with her attorney, pnwmom May 2019 #9
Fine, it's clear. Wright was unwilling to testify voluntarily. So Joe didn't force her to. ucrdem May 2019 #10
The bottom line is that Anita Hill didn't agree with Biden's decision pnwmom May 2019 #11
If Wright refused to testify voluntarily, he didn't let her down. He respected her wishes. ucrdem May 2019 #12
I said he let ANITA HILL down, not Angela Wright. Anita Hill wanted Wright to testify pnwmom May 2019 #13
That's absurd. If Hill's testimony didn't change their vote the others wouldn't have either. nt ucrdem May 2019 #14
The others were CORROBORATING her. It's not absurd to think that 3 women pnwmom May 2019 #15
"which might very well have changed the outcome" ucrdem May 2019 #17
They were Democrats and could easily have changed their votes. As it was the committee pnwmom May 2019 #19
Angela Wright Cha May 2019 #16
Yes major props to Angela Wright for sticking up for Joe. ucrdem May 2019 #18
Who cares what Angela Wright says? Why would Biden owe her an apology? pnwmom May 2019 #20
The issue isn't an apology to Angela Wright. It's Anita Hill that an apology was due to. pnwmom May 2019 #31
Exactly. Thomas is still there - what are we moving on from exactly? robbedvoter May 2019 #25
I actually watched those hearings live, and I surely don't remember a lot rusty quoin May 2019 #2
Biden was having his moment in the sun, and allowing the R's to throw stones at her. pnwmom May 2019 #6
It's when I woke up politically. Watched it too. The SNL sketch actually robbedvoter May 2019 #26
Neither Joseph Biden nor Clarence Thomas are exempt delisen May 2019 #8
It's been discussed, ad nauseum. While Biden could perhaps have done more, he treated Hill LongtimeAZDem May 2019 #22
nonsense Eliot Rosewater May 2019 #27
This was alerted. I said it clearly does not violate the TOS. Leave it. 11 Bravo May 2019 #28
Very well put. robbedvoter May 2019 #29
If anti-Biden or Anita Hill don't accept the apology ... LakeArenal May 2019 #21
Buldoze over all of us women. The image of the republicans avoiding robbedvoter May 2019 #24
Quite hyperbolic. LakeArenal May 2019 #30
Lindsay Graham owes me an apology for Kavanaugh. By the same token, Biden does robbedvoter May 2019 #23
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
1. That's a good statement.
Wed May 1, 2019, 11:35 PM
May 2019

Thanks Angela Wright

p.s. there's some question about whether she was willing to testify without a subpoena -- Biden says he received word that day that she wasn't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
3. Her attorney says he was with her waiting all day long to be called and she was expecting
Thu May 2, 2019, 01:52 AM
May 2019

to be called.

And she HAD been subpoenaed. Why would her requiring the subpoena -- that they had issued to her -- make Biden not call her in the end?

Surely Biden was familiar with the concept of a "friendly subpoena."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
4. As I said, it isn't clear.
Thu May 2, 2019, 02:25 AM
May 2019

It isn't even clear here:

He could have called me to speak to Thomas’s behavior, thus backing Hill’s testimony. Yet he chose not to.


Notice that Wright doesn't say "I wanted to testify," or even that "I was willing to testify." Yes, he could have compelled her to speak, and the word he received that day was that he would have had to. He chose to respect her wishes as he understood them. I think it was the right decision.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
5. Of course it was clear. Why does she have to make herself a target of haters forever
Thu May 2, 2019, 02:39 AM
May 2019

by saying "I wanted to testify"?

She has made it abundantly clear that she was willing to testify, but under subpoena.

And Anita Hill was very disappointed when Wright and the others weren't called. Shouldn't her wishes have mattered, too?

And he didn't just let her down -- he let all Americans down, by making decisions that ended up helping Thomas get on the court, despite the Democrats holding a solid majority on the Committee.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
7. Nevertheless, she didn't say it. So it remains unclear. nt
Thu May 2, 2019, 02:45 AM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
9. What remains unclear? She was sitting in a hotel room with her attorney,
Thu May 2, 2019, 03:34 AM
May 2019

waiting to be called to testify under subpoena.

Why did she have to "want" to testify? What person in their right mind would WANT to testify publicly under those circumstances? She was WILLING and that's all that should have mattered.

And Biden cited time limitations at the time -- but it was in his power to extend the hearings another day.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-10-14-9104020934-story.html

Wright was scheduled to appear in person but agreed to let her interview with committee staff members stand as her account because the hearing was running hours behind schedule, according to Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
10. Fine, it's clear. Wright was unwilling to testify voluntarily. So Joe didn't force her to.
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:13 AM
May 2019

And I completely agree with his decision. The senators would have destroyed her credibility and it would have detracted from Hill's testimony, which was perfectly compelling without it. And we both know it wouldn't have changed a single vote except possibly in Thomas' favor.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
11. The bottom line is that Anita Hill didn't agree with Biden's decision
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:19 AM
May 2019

and she felt he let her down.

And it wasn't just Angela Wright he didn't call. There were two other corroborating witnesses who he decided time prevented from giving public testimony.

But he had time to let someone testify about a crackpot theory of Anita having "erotomania."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
12. If Wright refused to testify voluntarily, he didn't let her down. He respected her wishes.
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:24 AM
May 2019

And it wasn't about Hill or Wright or Biden, it was about Thomas. And Biden voted against him twice, and ran the hearings for a month in the face of considerable opposition. So he gets credit for that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
13. I said he let ANITA HILL down, not Angela Wright. Anita Hill wanted Wright to testify
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:30 AM
May 2019

even if it was under subpoena.

And Biden has said that he thinks if the women had testified, Thomas might not have been confirmed. So Biden gets some credit for Thomas ending up on the court. The Dems had the majority and if the women had given their testimony, the vote might have gone the other way.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
14. That's absurd. If Hill's testimony didn't change their vote the others wouldn't have either. nt
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:33 AM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
15. The others were CORROBORATING her. It's not absurd to think that 3 women
Thu May 2, 2019, 05:09 AM
May 2019

offering corroborating testimony could have made the difference.

Instead, Biden bent over backwards to give Thomas the benefit of the doubt.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-joe-biden-hasnt-owned-up-to-about-anita-hill

On September 27, 1991, the Judiciary Committee was scheduled to vote on Thomas’s confirmation, sending it to the rest of the Senate for final approval. Unexpectedly, the committee split evenly, showing more opposition to Thomas than expected. The public still knew nothing. But when Biden himself voted against Thomas in committee, he made a cryptic public statement warning against the idea that Thomas’s character should be an issue. “I believe there are certain things that are not at issue at all,” Biden said, “and that is his character. This is about what he believes.” Further, Biden admonished, “I know my colleagues will refrain, and I urge everyone else to refrain from personalizing this battle.”

SNIP

Biden succeeded on one key point. He insisted that if there were other women who could corroborate Hill’s sexual-harassment accusations or who had had similar experiences, they should be allowed to testify, over Republicans’ objections. And there were three women who wanted to testify, which might very well have changed the outcome of the final vote. But the Republicans convinced Biden that one of the women, Angela Wright, who, like Hill, worked for Thomas at the E.E.O.C., would not hold up as a witness. Wright watched the hearings on television from her lawyers’ office, waiting to be called. Wright had a corroborator, Rose Jourdain, who also was eager to testify, but she, too, never got the chance. They and a third woman, Sukari Hardnett, instead were allowed to submit only depositions or written statements, which went into the public record so late that few senators ever saw them—all of which was Biden’s call.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
17. "which might very well have changed the outcome"
Thu May 2, 2019, 05:37 AM
May 2019

Yes and we all might very well become lotto billionaires tomorrow. Who would have changed their vote to nay? No one. I like Jane Mayer but she's writing from the same fantasy slant that RW nutjobs have been putting on this thing for 28 years. Yes, Wright was waiting, but you already conceded that she had also refused to testify voluntarily, as Biden had expected her to. And Biden was right not to compel her to speak against her will, and it would only have helped Thomas if she had.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
19. They were Democrats and could easily have changed their votes. As it was the committee
Thu May 2, 2019, 05:57 AM
May 2019

was split down the middle, so they only needed to flip one vote.

As I've explained repeatedly, she was willing and expected to testify with a subpoena, which they had obtained. But she wanted the burden to be on the committee, not on her. She didn't want to go up against Thomas on her own volition. What is so difficult about that for you to understand?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,274 posts)
16. Angela Wright
Thu May 2, 2019, 05:14 AM
May 2019

did say clearly that "..Joe Biden doesn't owe me an apology.. Clarence Thomas does.".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
18. Yes major props to Angela Wright for sticking up for Joe.
Thu May 2, 2019, 05:38 AM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
20. Who cares what Angela Wright says? Why would Biden owe her an apology?
Thu May 2, 2019, 05:59 AM
May 2019

It's Anita Hill who deserved an apology. I hope he has finally made peace with her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
31. The issue isn't an apology to Angela Wright. It's Anita Hill that an apology was due to.
Thu May 2, 2019, 06:33 PM
May 2019

Maybe he's done that by now. I hope so.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

robbedvoter

(28,290 posts)
25. Exactly. Thomas is still there - what are we moving on from exactly?
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:31 PM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rusty quoin

(6,133 posts)
2. I actually watched those hearings live, and I surely don't remember a lot
Wed May 1, 2019, 11:57 PM
May 2019

But this is what is left in my memory back then:

I thought that there was no way to decide whether or not she was right. (I am certain she was honest now)

I thought that Ted Kennedy’s questions were more important, because he attacked his record. His record was crazy right.

Joe Biden was amazingly tanned and smiling.

I have been better since, especially since G W Bush.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,979 posts)
6. Biden was having his moment in the sun, and allowing the R's to throw stones at her.
Thu May 2, 2019, 02:41 AM
May 2019

Yes, Ted did a much better job than Joe, who really let Anita (and America) down. It's easy to forget that the D's had a solid majority on the committee. The result could have been very different.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

robbedvoter

(28,290 posts)
26. It's when I woke up politically. Watched it too. The SNL sketch actually
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:33 PM
May 2019

captured the attitudes pretty accurately. Biden enabled the GOP 🐷🐷.
https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/cold-opening/n10108

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

delisen

(6,044 posts)
8. Neither Joseph Biden nor Clarence Thomas are exempt
Thu May 2, 2019, 03:01 AM
May 2019

from public scrutiny nor are their records.

None of the current candidates running are essential to winning the oval office.

It is unlikely that any candidate who may announce in the future will be essential to winning the oval office.

Our democratic process is how we engage in democracy.

We are engaged and the candidates must engage also.

We still have topics being downplayed and ignored by candidates. These must also be discussed by candidates. Russian interference is one of these topics.

I noted yesterday the power of the voices of women on the judiciary and I have noted in general the power of the voices of women in confronting both William Barr and Jaime Dimon in hearings. I've noted the power of the women we have elected in the Blue Wave.

This is the true revolution. It cannot be postponed.

Now is the time to discuss. If not now, when?


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
22. It's been discussed, ad nauseum. While Biden could perhaps have done more, he treated Hill
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:02 PM
May 2019

with respect, ran a fair hearing, and voted against Thomas. If Hill wishes to continue to hold a grudge against him, that is on her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
28. This was alerted. I said it clearly does not violate the TOS. Leave it.
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:37 PM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

robbedvoter

(28,290 posts)
29. Very well put.
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:44 PM
May 2019

Being told to "move on" is truly offensive. Thomas being horrible is not an excuse for Biden. he is the result of his actions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LakeArenal

(28,819 posts)
21. If anti-Biden or Anita Hill don't accept the apology ...
Thu May 2, 2019, 10:09 AM
May 2019

Move on. That’s the only option.
Biden isn’t dropping out. Anita Hill can’t accept, we need to move on.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

robbedvoter

(28,290 posts)
24. Buldoze over all of us women. The image of the republicans avoiding
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:29 PM
May 2019

rape victims questions during Kavanaugh hearings just popped into my mind. Biden is running on misogyny - this thread reinforces my feeling.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

robbedvoter

(28,290 posts)
23. Lindsay Graham owes me an apology for Kavanaugh. By the same token, Biden does
Thu May 2, 2019, 04:28 PM
May 2019

to Hill and each of us. In this sentence, Thomas is the object ("for what?&quot . The either/or is a specious argument and it won't work.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Joe Biden doesn't owe me ...