So it shall be written

be flushed.

Trump would win in a landslide.

That’s exactly what would happen.

...if anyone needs to be reminded that Ham Rove has devoted his life to lie, cheat, and steal his way to a permanent Republican majority.

Simply put, he is not about giving free LEGITIMATE advice to help Dems take the White House.

None! Trump is done, finished, toast in 2020. He has turned off many who voted for him in 2016.

Could go into the battleground territory with BS at the head of the ticket. All are states where the socialism position polls very poorly.

I also think that Pennsylvania will fall out of battleground territory into leans republican.

To be fair, I think that Wisconsin and Michigan will Lean more Democratic Party.

....in the lead or has damaged our best candidate(s).

In 2016 Rove's SuperPAC American Crossroads spent a lot of money on Sanders ads, and it looks like he's prepared to do so again next year.

among the Democratic candidates. I'm sure he has the very best intentions.

...the very fact that he is discussed at all positively on Fox (whose viewership includes many Republicans who do NOT like Trump) would actually help Sanders get votes.

Paradox: The more you talk up the candidate you think is easiest to beat, the harder he becomes to beat.

We may not like Rove or trust his motives, but if Sanders ends up facing Trump, this kind of talk serves to help Sanders in the battleground states .

veiwership.

He was trashed by the pundits to the regular viewers the day after the town hall, and now the focus is on trashing Biden.

enough to listen to the cretin.

which of these candidates will do their bidding for them.

guy for numbers. "But, we won Ohio!... "

Karl Rove Was Feeding the Romneys False Hope on Election Night

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/ann-romney-karl-rove-election-night/314762/

Sanders had charisma and moves people.

Dukkakis, Gore, Hillary, Kerry... They were all cut from the same cloth. Uninspired wonky smart policy people.

To say that he "has charisma" is a very subjective statement. You believe that he has charisma, others don't.

I, for one, found Hillary's wonkishness appealing and the opposite of "uninspiring." I find accomplishment and the support of her progressive peers to have been evidence that she has people skills, emotional intelligence and is a valued team player.

Her ability to listen to people and answer their questions was charismatic in itself. She had empathy for the people in the room as well as for those who she never met.

Wish that is what worked to win elections because each of them would have been better. But the results show that Democrats need inspiring rhetoric to win.

Policy smarts loses, probably because we need swing voters.

I agree with you there.

so she clearly moved far more people than they did.

who is THE greatest candidate ever.

it's funny how people keep insisting someone who got fewer votes is the one that moves people. that same person is getting less support the more people see them.

by contrast Hillary held onto her support over 8 years.

Thank You!

I think that he was most appealing to people who were to some degree disaffected with the status quo. He represented a huge change in direction -- as did Trump, but in very different directions. For some, both validated that the reason for their personal lack of success was that the system was stacked against them.

The difference was that Bernie was repeating things he had said for at least 30 years and he really believed that the solutions he proposed were the solution. Trump, on the other hand, was a charlatan, using these people -- with no intention of doing anything to help them. No, building a wall would not help them, nor the huge tax cut for the wealthy, nor undermining the ACA.

What we need is a vision, policy plans and a leader who could provide the leadership to try to make a better world. If that leader lacks the media valued "charisma" or grassroots energy, that has to come from us. Example in point - every Democrat will have a climate action program that will start with rejoining Paris and reversing the Trump reversals of Obama's executive orders ... and will differ in policy from there. The ENERGY is very likely to come from the grassroots, the cities and the blue states and most of all from activists.

The only thing the leader must have is the vision, the ability to chose good people to put in power, and the ability to listen to them and others and make decisions on where the administration has to go. ALL of those supposedly lacking in charisma people had an abundance of experience and had demonstrated they had those abilities. Those skills - not being superficially charming - are what adults should look for in the person they want for President.

One other thing I would note is that from what I have heard, while most people who worked for Bernie when he was mayor agree he was genuine in the positions he took - he was not always easy to work for. I know a few people who worked for Kerry. All of them respect him as a person as well as the statesman he is.

Kerry has moved people - on different things - since 1971. In 1971, it was his charisma and eloquence that made him the only anti-war advocate that the Nixon administration feared -- as we learned from the tapes never intended to be public.

I have seen both Sanders and Kerry. Kerry reaches a broader group of people. In 2004, one problem he had was that the media - including MSNBC - did not cover speeches he labeled as major policy speeches. They did cover that there was a speech and then had their talking head speak for at least as long as the clips played of Kerry. In addition, they took only the anti Bush lines -- ignoring the main content. As one who quickly changed to viewing on CSPAN, I couldn't understand why many - even here and DK - had no idea what Kerry was proposing.

Gore, who the media also labelled "boring", was later seen more clearly when he championed fighting climate change. He was the same serious, articulate man, but suddenly many saw him as liberal (not his record) and charismatic.

It drove me crazy when the media argued that Kerry needed the charismatic Edwards on his ticket, after Kerry convincing beat all challengers by a huge margin - he won all but 4 contests, 2 of which were favorite sons' wins after Kerry had clinched the nomination. Kerry's victories were because he was far more compelling.

The same goes for Hillary. Even now, there are many many people for whom Hillary was the candidate that most won both their support and their hearts. (For me, that was Kerry) There is no question that she did motivate many people and easily beat Sanders. In 2008, many Democrats I knew were active for the first time supporting her in the primary, joining most of the older women (my peers) who were always active in the Republican county I lived in. Even people I called, to ask them to vote for Obama, were not against HRC. Many in fact wanted both of them -- which was tricky for us because - at that time - HRC/Obama would have been the way to do that.

I would caution that the media often frames whether a nominee is "charismatic" or not. Not to mention, both Gore and Kerry were faulted for not be the back slapper that Bill Clinton was -- even though both were kind, caring people. (interesting that this year, that was turned on its head with Biden, never accused of any harassment, had to essentially apologize.) The second thing that frames "charisma" is whether they win.

All three of these elections were close - even though 2004 was expected to be a sure Republican win from the vantage of December 2003. Had Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 been fair and honest where all voters would have found it easy to vote, Bush would have lost both times. (Yes - there is a logical problem in saying so as 2004 would likely have been Gore vs McCain. ) 2016 was close in several states and we will never know the impact of the Russian trolls.

Had any of these three people won, they would have had the spotlight the Presidency brings. Hillary had that spotlight as First Lady and, for many that was the first step of defining her as a person. However, seeing her as President, would have been so much more. The same is true for Gore, who had been covered as VP, and for Kerry. All of them would have been seen more fully as people and leaders.

I've seen both Kerry and Sanders in both rallies and smaller events. Both were able to move people in their rallies. In smaller events, Kerry was MUCH better than Sanders.

How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" speech.

1) he's elevating the guy he wants to run against
2) he's right that Sanders has an authentic connectability that gives him a chance

calculated.

You can count on the opposite.

From Barr, and many other things they've done, and are trying to do, and all the lying and corruption going on out of this White House. They just thought the Mid Terms were bad, this next election , that is if trump doesn't stop it first knowing he'll be done and possibly going to prison, will be an even worse disaster for them then. Every day longer he's in office , the worse it will be for all of the GOP. They sold themselves to the devil , and will pay dearly for what they've done to this country and the American people.

and I predict that Beto and Mayor Pete will be the next targets, unless Warren or Kamala moves ahead in the polls.

and not every candidate can rebuild it...This is going to be a very tough election and Trump has the upper hand.

and WI & MI are also looking better for the dems.

The bigger surprise will be FL flip. Andrew Gillum almost pulled off a win in 2018 here in FL.

a do nothing senator. He was in that seat too long and got too comfortable.
Few had heard of mayor Gillum, and he came within striking distance of winning.

You do not get how tough this election will be. Florida is is not likely to turn blue. And the blue wall will not be rebuilt without Biden. We are unlikely to win in the electoral college without a candidate who can rebuild the blue wall.

For the simple reason she displays 10 times more energy than Biden. I like both but watching Biden give his speech last week he seemed to slur & stumble on some words. Elizabeth never does that. After 4 years of Trump, we need an energetic and experienced hand to repair all the damage.

basically a pubbie attack on Biden ...low energy. This is untrue and inappropriate.

If Biden has what it takes, it will be obvious during the debates, and my support could change to him from Sen Warrren.

I do not remember an election where debates mattered all that much.

than in general. Just my 2 cents.

Last edited Sat May 4, 2019, 11:14 AM - Edit history (1)

and for good reason!!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Rove's corporate dark money superpac American Crossroads spent thousands to run ads to help Bernie.

....get their preferred candidate, they'll do everything they can to damage the ultimate candidate.

I would be money that if Sanders was the candidate...Barr would investigate Jane Sanders.

all of Sander's statements against capitalism is breathlessly reported...big spending socialist attacks begin...weak on the military...the sexual harassment 2016 crap, the fantasy book he wrote...and more...And since Sanders has not been vetted. This will be new to much of the electorate...unlike Biden who is well known.

are complimentary to their wives. They are afraid of them!!

nt

Anyone identified anything less obvious than RT or Thom Hartmann?

They don't know what will happen and neither do we.

In case it wasn't already clear.

Remember, Rove wanted Jeb!

Basically he's a big oil guy and they are loyal to one thing only: $$

Within the deadline, he'd register as a republican and then he'd vote for the weakest republican running. Then he'd switch his registration back to Democrat.

Rove isn't stupid, he's going promote one of our weakest candidates as much as he can. That's why his American Crossroads SuperPAC spent a lot of money running ads for Sanders during the last cycle. Do you think he agrees with or likes Sanders' ideology? No. But he knows that Sanders would be a weaker candidate to run against trump next year, so he'd like to see him either win the nomination or damage our front runner as much as possible.

A good lesson!

Did he see Trump coming? If he did, he is smarter than I give him credit for. If he didn't, then he should be careful what he wishes for in 2020, because he might get it.

They can scream “SOCIALIST!” about Bernie and freak out their base even more, and they can make us argue even more among ourselves. Look for more of that kind of thing.

Because they want the weakest opponent they could ever dream of.

It really sounds to me like the GOP is starting to actively promote BS (in their subtle-not-subtle way). Could it be any MORE obvious what Karl Rove is trying to do?

I wonder what the reason would be that the GOP is beginning to promote BS, or sing his praises, or find virtue in his philosophy? Like I said, it's subtle-not-subtle.

Yeah, like we're going to let Karl Rove choose our nominee.

we're going to jump on the Bernie Bandwagon. He's talking to Independents and weak Democrats who don't follow the news and analyze what the candidates say. Plus, he's also capitalizing on the fallacy that if he, Karl Rove, "fears" Bernie, that must be the one to support. Again, no logic.

Bernie can be beat.

Is that clearer?

This is the only way that I find something.

That's OK. The comments on that thread were interesting. And as I reminded many: Karl Rove knows what he is saying; after all, he predicted that Romney would be in the White House in 2012..

That's why he has Kellyanne the Crypt Keeper standing on the White House lawn doing "stand up comedy" over Biden.

Because Trump isn't worried at all about Joe.

He's REALLY worried about Bernie beating him, he's just too crafty to spill the beans.

I shouldn't need to insert this here, but for those who want to see it, here it is:

2020 will be a very close election if the economy is strong. Democrats have to pick a very strong nominee

Link to tweet

and bonuses like they used to, I will believe the economy is doing well.

It aint doing well to average people.

n/t

This is just one of Republicans coming out for Bernie in one way or another. I have to wonder why.

Why would we believe anything he has to say about anything??

Link to tweet