a bunch of supporters of other candidates.

Not me. I have faith the primary voters will do what they feel is best for the country, including listening to all the facts about all the candidates's positions and records.

I think Biden and Sanders, both in their late 70's, are just too old to best represent our party in 2020. I think several of the candidates who are in their prime of their lives are qualified and best prepared to face the rigors of office that being president brings. That office accelerates aging, every single president leaves looking physically worn out.

At 76 an 77 years, respectively, Biden and Sanders have about a 50% chance of dying or getting Alzheimers during their time as president if elected.

Age related cognitive mental decline is real and well studied.

your hopes by being very far out ahead. You're wrong for, above all, the simple reason that America knows Biden and likes him. BOTH are HUGE.

Further, most who will be voting actually once approved his past actions -- in the past. And if they didn't, their parents did. THAT's HUGE.

Not me after Anita Hill, but I finally would be okay with him as our nominee now in large part because Obama, with whom Biden worked closely, thinks very well of him. Don't fool yourself that isn't HUGE. It is.

On the plus side for you apparently, this will be a boringly long haul and his poll lead will diminish somewhat for a variety of reasons that all boil down to the reality that, once initial commitment to party is comfortably satisfied, voters will explore other choices. But all the other reasons will remain.

I take your point though.

When supporters of a primary candidate post about the records of other candidates they are trying to effect primary voters, and they do so by vetting them and pointing out what they consider shortcomings in their records.

And to be fair, the leading candidates take the most heat when this happens.

As front runner, Biden is under increased scrutiny, that's very true. But, to quote Biden, c'mon man Sanders gets his record examined at about the same intensity here on DU as far as I can tell.

So, I guess by that standard, perhaps Biden supporters are scared of Sanders still. Seems so and kinda makes sense.

I am sure if and when another front runner emerges, they will get the same level of scrutiny that Biden and Sanders are receiving at the moment.

Too soon to go scorched earth.

Actually why don’t we avoid going scorched earth and be colleagial this Primary season?

We must win, we don’t win by tearing down any of our candidates and feeding talking points to Putin and Trump.

Thanks and

When he wanted Obama primaried in 2012, when he voted against sanctioning Russia, with his lousy record on guns.

Bernie is tanking and that’s good news for those of us who are serious about winning next year.

You may allege yours is merely vetting, but the totality of concern I see from Biden's position as front runner belies that allegation. The consistency of attacking one's opponent rather than commending one's proponent illustrates it as such.

Have a donut . You'll feel better.

And let's not overlook what seems to be casual racism in the article, assuming that POC haven't learned these bad, bad things about Biden yet.

I'd bet money that no more than 60% could recall the name 'Joe Biden' off the top of their head. Hell, if you asked who the VP is NOW it wouldnt' be much higher than 60%.

Yet you think a good number of American's are well-versed on Biden's 1970's voting record on the subject of School Integration/Busing?

And suggesting otherwise implies ... racism?

Yeah, okay

....busing is a method.

They are two totally separate, distinct issues.

Not really the point I was getting at, but ... good to know.

Curious, isn't it?

The fact that Biden saw fit to work with racist Senator Jesse Helms to oppose desegregation make's it reasonable to ask if he has the political backbone NOW not to similarly comprise his positions in any efforts to "be civil" and "work with" the current rThugs in the senate.

While we're on the topic... I have to wonder if that same question applies to "environmental racism" as Paul Wellstone called some legislation concerning locating a nuclear waste dump at " target="_blank">Sierra Blanca, a low income primarily Hispanic community, in 1998, and if it would be reasonable to ask if any Senator fast tracking that legislation has the political backbone NOW not to similarly compromise his positions to consider non-white communities in Texas to be as valuable as white communities in New England, not to mention environmental protection, especially if that Senator's spouse was still receiving income from that waste dump at least through 2014.

Do you think it does?

Honestly, I say this all the time and I even said it elsewhere already in this thread:

I feel that Biden and Sanders, at 76 and 77 years of age respectively, are both too old to best represent our party best in 2020.

We have a host of other candidates that are well qualified and in the prime of their lives and are ready to meet the rigors that being President would impose on them. The job is grueling and prematurely ages everyone that has held the office.

Age related cognitive decline is real and well studied; both Biden and Sanders will experience accelerating cognitive decline thru their late 70's and as they enter their 80's. It's a hard reality we should consider when selecting our nominee.

I used to feel that Warren was also too old, or at least on the bubble of being too old at age 69 but research says compared to similarly age men, women experience only 60% the rate of cognitive decline as they grow older. So at 69, and being a women, I think Warren is ready to accept the challenges of being president for the next 8 years or so.

I hope that clears up my portion on both Biden and Sanders.

As for the issue you alluded to about Sierra Blanca, I would encourage you to post a an OP detailing the issue and your concerns about how it reflects on Sander's record. I would love to read it.

Both Biden and Sanders have track records that have strengths and weaknesses. Its good, as the 2 current from runners, that they get the most scrutiny at this time.Please vet all the candidates on any and all issues that speak to your concerns, this is the time to do that as we select our nominee.

Thanks for giving me another opportunity to make my position clear on the current Biden-Sanders drama that seems, in my opinion, to lower the level of discourse here on DU.

.....not even in this 9 paragraph post.

Last edited Mon May 6, 2019, 10:53 PM - Edit history (2)

But to be honest, there are so many posts about the leading 2 candidates, they do tend to get a lot of responses from everyone.

I have also replied in threads to support several other of the younger candidates beside Cory, and expect, for example to be posting in threads about Warren and Harris even more as they emerge during the debates and primaries too.

My preferred candidate, Booker, is hangin on by his finger nails for serious consideration. His fund raising is lagging and he will need a great performance in the debates to try to close the gap.

Booker is incredibly strong on social justice issues and has spoken out on the challenges minorities continue to face more than any other candidate, at least in my opinion. I hope Cory can at least remain a serious contender for a spot on the presidential ticket as VP because of this. In the quest to win over old white Rust Belt trump voters, I hope someone keeps speaking out strongly for people of color, the heart of the democratic base.

Right now, the media just isn't giving much coverage to Booker as a candidate, so there are many less articles about him to comment on. Also, it's early in the campaign, not many official campaign positions are being put out to comment on either. And as for polls, well, I did cheer Cory for getting 3% and hanging on to 7th place in the standings. lol I hope as the debates start up, Booker will get more coverage, put out more positions and be able to get the press that can keep him in the running.

But once again... you do know that I think Biden and Sanders are both too old to represent our party best in 2020, right?

Need it spelled out more? OK, how's this... Biden, at age 76, and Sanders, at age 77 are in my opinion TOO OLD to be our nominee 2020. At the end of their possible first term, BOTH will be in their EIGHTIES.

That's just too old to face the rigors of being President. The job is grueling and adds ten years onto everyone that has ever held the office. We have excellent qualified candidates that are decades younger that all would represent the party better in 2020. I hope the primary voters select one of those to be our nominee, but we will ALL VOTE for our nominee WHOMEVER the voters select.

-rolls eyes -

I am still undecided. Why don’t you post some positive threads about Booker and help convince me?

That would be very productive and unifying.

Totally up to you of course.

of Congress? I see no problem with Democratic voters trusting Joe Biden.

When coffee and donuts don't work...I suggest Vicks.

cough.

I was asking about double standards, concerning "racism" and votes, and if you applied them.

....Biden didn't make up excuses for voting against bad bills or voting against good bills.

seem to believe that it is how the government is supposed to function.

up Whataboutism’s from one person’s campaign.

As well as other not so pleasant things from the 70's, 80's, 90's etc.

I am rooting that Cory or any of the excellent younger candidates catch on with the primary voters. I feel that at Biden and age 76 and Sanders at age 77 are both too old to best represent our party as the 2020 nominee.

"have to remember?" I trust that most, of not all, voters of color have their wits about them when they choose a candidate. It is presumptuous of any white person to say otherwise.

Americans are high information voters.. always have been.

So was Thurgood Marshall

In Milliken v Bradley 418 U.S. 717 (1974) which was about forced busing of students in Detroit, Thurgood Marshall voted against busing.

In his dissenting opinion, Justice Marshall wrote:

"But for his (Biden's) overwhelmingly white constituents, nothing less than massive resistance to busing would suffice. The New Castle County Neighborhood Schools Association booed Biden off the stage at one event in 1974. One year later, the Delaware senator broke ranks with northern liberals— and joined his virulently racist North Carolina colleague Jesse Helms in voting to kneecap all federal efforts to integrate schools, anywhere in the country. Specifically, Biden voted to bar the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare from requiring schools to provide information on the racial makeup of their student bodies — thereby making it nigh-impossible for Uncle Sam to withhold federal funds from school districts that refused to integrate."

making it nigh-impossible for Uncle Sam to withhold federal funds from school districts that refused to integrate... that speaks volumes.

Here is why this is an issue we should care about today: Back in 1974 Biden didn't just "be civil" to republican senators, he abandoned his principles and threw in with THE WORST RACIST in the Senate.

So when Biden started calling Trump an "aberration" and saying he wants to return to the days of by-partisan civility, people get really nervous that he will once again abandon his principles for political expediency.

That seems like a reasonable concern to consider.

such a racist guy as you claim Biden is and Obama chose him as his VP.

As I stated in my OP:

I think the single biggest favor anyone ever did for Biden was when President Obama selected him for VP.

It let Biden have 8 years of serving in the first African American presidential administration and THAT helped diminish a lot of Biden's problematic past positions on racial issues.

Biden's lack of political backbone in the past wasn't so much of an issue for when he ran as VP since VP's don't get held to the same level of scrutiny as the President does. People viewed VP Biden as good natured Uncle Joe, and even made kindhearted jokes about him washing his car in the White House driveway.

He wasn't taken seriously by most people as VP because to quote John Nance Garner, “the vice presidency is not worth a bucket of warm spit.”
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/53402

Now that Biden is running again for President, his record is going to be held to a much higher level of scrutiny, and that makes sense.

VP was taken very seriously by most Democrats. Just because you're insulting him now.. and bringing up that old John Nance quote.. means absolutely nothing.

In A Surprise Send-Off, Obama Awards Biden Presidential Medal Of Freedom

snip//

Calling the former longtime Delaware senator "the best vice president America's ever had" and a "lion of American history," Obama gave his White House partner the surprise award in an emotional ceremony, initially billed as a farewell.

After extolling the job that Biden has done, Obama ended it with the unexpected news that he was giving the vice president the nation's highest civilian honor, with distinction — a designation most recently given to President Ronald Reagan, Pope John Paul II and Gen. Colin Powell.

"To know Joe Biden is to know love without pretense, service without self-regard, and to live life fully," Obama said.

snip//

Throughout the ceremony it was evident not just how close the two men were but how close their families and staffs had become, and Obama said his "family is honored to call ourselves honorary Bidens."

https://www.npr.org/2017/01/12/509545778/in-surprise-send-off-president-obama-awards-biden-presidential-medal-of-freedom

Transcript of President Obama's speech..

He fought to make college more affordable and revitalized American manufacturing, as the head of our middle-class taskforce. He suited up for Our Cancer Moonshot and giving hope to millions of Americans touched by this disease.

He led our efforts to combat gun violence. And he rooted out any possible misappropriations that might’ve occurred. And as a consequence, the recovery act worked as well as just about any large- scale stimulus project has ever worked in this country. He visited college after college and made friends with Lady Gaga…

Behind the scenes, Joe’s candid honest council has made me a better president and a better commander in chief. From the Situation Room, to our weekly lunches, to our huddles after everybody else has cleared out of the room, he’s been unafraid to give it to me straight, even if we disagree.

In fact, especially, when we disagree. And all of this makes, in my belief, the finest vice president we have ever seen. And I also think he has been a lion of American history.
The best part is, he’s no where close to finished. In the years ahead as a citizen, he will continue to build on that legacy internationally and domestically. He’s got a voice of vision and reason and optimism and love for people and we’re gonna need that — that spirit and that vision as we continue to try to make our world safer and to make sure that everybody’s got a fair shot in this country.

snip//

So all told, that’s a pretty remarkable legacy, an amazing career in public service. It is, as Joe once said, “a big deal.”

Much More..
http://time.com/4633826/joe-biden-obama-presidential-medal-freedom/

Milliken v. Bradley didn't rule on the legality of busing and the quote from Thurgood Marshall was not referencing busing, at all. In fact, if you read his whole dissent, you will see that he specifically defended the use of busing as one means to achieve desegregation.

will bring any fence sitting black voters back into the fold.

and remind us about what we should remember? Thank you, Eric Levitz, for 'splaining it to us!

enough to view those controversies in the context of the time when they occurred.

We have seen how politicians and millions of well meaning white people looked away from the subtle and very normal aspects of white supremacy. Many of us found ourselves stunned when openly malicious bigotry resurfaced after Obama was elected. We had not come as far as we thought we had.

I suppose it might be comforting to try to go back and pretend we had, and all of the sudden things got worse with the appearance of an aberration. But returning to comfort at a time when it is glaring at us would be to bury our heads in the sand.

Are we now regretful and wanting to do better or do we want to defend, dismiss, and ignore it because it's not as visibly hateful as what we now have?
Or....

has lapses in memory about a man who has been on the scene for decades.

In fact, interviews on the ground indicate that everyone--including POC--know exactly who Joe Biden is, know the man's history, the good and the bad, and still support him. Something like 48% of black women at this early date support Biden and black men are not far behind. The numbers coming out of South Carolina are impressive in a large (and ever-growing) field and there is a sizeable AA electorate (27+%) in the state.

Do the 8 years working beside President Obama have anything to do with that? Well, duh. I'd certainly guess that has a good deal to do with Biden's favorable ratings. Is that somehow an unfair advantage? No. Because Biden worked his heart out during the Obama years and the men developed a strong friendship and mutual admiration.

That's important to a lot of people: who you are now, not who you were (or who people say you were) back in the day. And that's regardless of what race you happen to be.

As for Trump using the racial edge against Biden? LOL. The biggest bigot on two feet? No, he's more likely to weave together half-truths and lies to smear Biden and/or any other Democratic candidate. Because that's who the Trumpster and the Republican Party are, have been for decades.

And then there's the electability question, a question many people do not like. Whether we like it or not, the big factor at the moment is: who can rid us of this Mad King?

The answer right now? Joe Biden.

Peggysue. POC know exactly who Joe Biden is.

Excellent post.. Thank You!

Besides it would kill the trump monster to be beaten by President Obama's Vice President!

Trump has done everything in his power to dismantle all President Obama's accomplishments. A win for Joe Biden would be a boot straight up the Trumpster's ass.

So well deserved, too!

What an insulting piece.

Yeah, this is one I felt compelled to respond to because it fails on so many fronts. Not the least of which is being downright offensive.

I'll decide based on debates and townhall events. Negative campaigning only makes me more negative to the partisans campaigning negatively.

....he was against forced busing and it turned out that he was CORRECT. Forced busing was an absolute failure and has since been abandoned.

Characterizing his stand on forced busing as him being against school integration is, to be nice, disingenuous. It's a gross mischaracterization of his position on school integration and highly disappointing.

You seemed to have missed this key paragraph from the OP:

"Specifically, Biden voted to bar the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare from requiring schools to provide information on the racial makeup of their student bodies — thereby making it nigh-impossible for Uncle Sam to withhold federal funds from school districts that refused to integrate."

Viciously shitting on other primary candidates doesn’t help Booker at all.

Busing for desegregation came about largely as a result of recalcitrant school districts and white communities that refused to find other ways to desegregate their schools, such as redrawing school district lines to help overcome decades of intentional residential segregation. Because of that refusal, judges began ordering schools to reassign children on a very limited basis to effectuate desegregation. White parents went berserk.

Interestingly, many of the children who were being bused for desegregation had previously been bused because their "neighborhood" schools were actually farther away. But the "neighborhood" schools" had been attached to neighborhoods that had been intentionally segregated.

Link to tweet

let's see how that resonates

The OP seems to assume that the majority of African Americans Support that position, and not so subtly implies that those who do not subscribe to that may have racial issues, specifically inferring that in Biden.

It is interesting how selective the OP is in picking and choosing where Biden is on the issues.

In case the OP is interested, here is where Biden is on the issues, and this was way before President Obama selected him as VP:

https://www.ontheissues.org/Joe_Biden.htm

Is Joe Biden's record perfect? No, but I will tell you this, Biden IS NOT A RACIST. and any implication that he is, is bullshit

Thank You!

isn't about vetting, and busing isn't the biggest issue facing the country right now

My father was very involved in the issue at the time - he even debated Biden over it. We both think he was flat wrong and caused some harm to important desegregation efforts.

But neither one of us see his position and actions on busing in the early 1970s as a disqualifier and both of us are wide open to supporting him in the primaries.

Hm.

The prolific OPs have been informative.

Link to tweet

Although I support Sanders, I foresee that, when voters measure Biden's past inconsistency on race during his time in the Senate against tRump's racism and xenophobia in the present, they will find it easy to see the clear contrast.