Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

reggieandlee

(778 posts)
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 10:13 AM Mar 2019

BTRTN: Hey, Democrats... Stop with the "Democratic Socialism." Try "Progressive Capitalism."

Born To Run The Numbers thinks that Bernie has the right ideas, but is marketing them with a terrible branding idea.

http://www.borntorunthenumbers.com/2019/03/btrtn-hey-democrats-stop-with.html

Excerpts:
“Positioning a brand” means to give it a unique, powerful, and credible meaning that enables consumers to know exactly what they are getting, and getting exactly what they want. Think, if you will, of brands like BMW, which has promised its customers “the ultimate driving machine” for over 40 years...
"Positioning a candidate as a 'Democratic Socialist' is a really bad branding idea. Don’t get me wrong: I think Bernie Sanders has actually put his finger on the most critical issues facing our country. But he is giving his proposed solutions a terrible brand identity.
"A majority of Americans cannot tell you the difference between 'socialism' and 'communism,' and that if you actually tried to explain it, their eyes would glaze over and they would swivel back to re-runs of season four of 'Real Housewives of Atlanta...'
"The second reason for disposing of this branding device is actually more significant: 'Democratic Socialism' is a misleading description of the economic policies that we need to put in place to correct our society and our economy...
"And yet – and this is the scary part -- there is yet a third reason why 'Democratic Socialism' would be a branding disaster for Democrats. If the Democrats push “Democratic Socialism,” they will be reminding Donald Trump to talk more about his stewardship of the economy. They will be giving Trump a giant crowbar he can use to bang you over the heads of every Democratic candidate. They will be framing the 2020 debate on terms that are most favorable to Trump..."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

IronLionZion

(45,451 posts)
1. DUers have also suggested social democracy
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 10:26 AM
Mar 2019

social capitalism, or socially responsible capitalism, etc. because we are not trying to seize the means of production. Plenty of people would support social programs and fair regulations that benefit consumers and employees.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapucelle

(18,270 posts)
2. BS has been telling anyone with a microphone for decades that he is a democratic socialist.
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 10:30 AM
Mar 2019

This "branding disaster" is not the fault of the Democratic Party; it's the fault of Brand New Congress PAC and Justice Democrat PAC that jumped on the bandwagon because they sniffed a money-making opportunity.

It's a shame that all Democratic candidates now have to run away from a toxic label that only applies to a few.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

WeekiWater

(3,259 posts)
3. Their marketing is spot on. Their marketing is based off of winning elections, not ideology...
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 10:37 AM
Mar 2019

or the rest of the country. Please note that I am not talking about them as a whole. Just in how they brands themselves. The movement as a whole would greatly benefit by calling itself Progressive Capitalists or something of the sort.

Democratic Socialism is a brand. It caters to a specific segment. It matters little that they are capitalists. It's about individuals branding themselves for elections.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laffy Kat

(16,383 posts)
4. That would put capitalism in a positive light, so it is misleading. nt
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 10:39 AM
Mar 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
5. Capitalism is not progressive
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 10:55 AM
Mar 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LAS14

(13,783 posts)
14. Not until we make it so. nt
Wed Mar 6, 2019, 09:06 AM
Mar 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

CrossingTheRubicon

(731 posts)
6. Capitalism is progressive. Socialism is a failed ideology.
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 11:05 AM
Mar 2019

Liberal Democrats should embrace advanced capitalism the way Elizabeth Warren has done.

Liberal democracy with advanced capitalism is the best way to ensure both prosperity and freedom. The Social Democracies that some socialists like to point to as "models" all have advance capitalist economies. None is a socialist state.

Prosperous liberal democracies can afford to care for our own and the commitment to do so is what makes us liberals. But that ain't socialism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Horizens

(637 posts)
7. Messaging
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 11:07 AM
Mar 2019

t's about messaging and framing the narrative. Republicans are way better than Dems at this.
And it's about the house and senate not just the race for the white house.

It’s fair to assume that come the 2020 election, both the Reps and Dems have a lock on 35% of the vote. It's absurd, beyond naïve to think that talking socialism, a guaranteed income and eliminating ICE is going to capture a majority of the remaining 30% of the electorate. They’re absolute, 100% loser talking points.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tinrobot

(10,903 posts)
8. NBC poll: 50% Americans have negative opinions of "socialism"; only 18% view it positively.
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 11:22 AM
Mar 2019

That thread elsewhere on DU caught my attention:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11885339

If you're branding yourself as a "socialist", you instantly lose 50% of the voters. Why in the world would you do that?

Sure, voters love socialist policies, they just hate the label. If your goal is to enact the policies, then focus on those and dump the label.

It's just branding.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

calimary

(81,310 posts)
11. So we don't use the damn word!
Wed Mar 6, 2019, 08:31 AM
Mar 2019

Just rebrand it. Works for the bad guys. Why can’t it work for us, too?

I think “progressive capitalism” sounds pretty doggone interesting! What I think most Americans really deep-down want is a form of “tempered capitalism”. Not unfettered capitalism or runaway capitalism that just means a feeding frenzy for the very rich while everybody else gets either screwed or left behind, or both. But that takes too long to explain for the “Short Attention Span Theater” attendees.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
9. Bernie's biggest mistake.
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 04:24 PM
Mar 2019

Instead of introducing the American proletariat to the term "Democratic Socialism," which is an abstract notion, he should have just said "I'm an FDR Democrat."

Even on DU, people constantly confuse "Democratic Socialism" with "Socialism" proper.

And there are some on DU who intentionally conflate their meanings so as to score points against Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

reggieandlee

(778 posts)
10. An interesting point, but consider this...
Wed Mar 6, 2019, 07:22 AM
Mar 2019

Perhaps the biggest concern I have about Bernie's branding -- and, implicitly, the looming branding problem in the Democratic Party -- is his insistence on seeking to identify himself as a particular type of Democrat. Why can't he just say he is a "Democrat?" His type of branding seems intent on causing the same type of division within the Democratic Party that occurred when the Republicans were divided between "Tea Party" Republicans versus "Centrist Republicans." The very labeling of segments of the party accentuates rifts rather than reinforcing unity.

Why can't Bernie Sanders become a Democrat, and then describe himself as a Democrat? He does neither, and yet he seeks the party's nomination for the highest office in the land. It's not a formula for success... neither for Bernie, nor for the Democratic Party.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

calimary

(81,310 posts)
12. That's another good one. "FDR capitalism."
Wed Mar 6, 2019, 08:32 AM
Mar 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tinrobot

(10,903 posts)
15. "Green New Deal" is another already in use.
Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:08 PM
Mar 2019

Which is basically FDRs New Deal, but aimed at creating green jobs.

I think the word "green", however, is a turn off to some. Branding is tricky.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LAS14

(13,783 posts)
13. Does anyone have an idea for making this go viral? For one thing, please...
Wed Mar 6, 2019, 09:05 AM
Mar 2019

.... tweet #PregressiveCapitalism to get it to be less British and less wonkish.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Autumn

(45,106 posts)
16. "Stop worrying about what Republicans are going to call you.
Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:17 PM
Mar 2019

They're going to call you that either way."
Ulysses S. Grant

Fuck Republicans.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

reggieandlee

(778 posts)
17. Huh?
Wed Mar 6, 2019, 02:51 PM
Mar 2019

I must admit that I am puzzled by your comment.
The entire point of the original article is to warn Democrats about the dangers of how Democrats refer to themselves. If Democrats choose to label themselves a "Democratic Socialists," they will alienate a broad segment of the population.
It has nothing to do with how Republicans refer to Democrats.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Autumn

(45,106 posts)
18. Did you read the article? It's loaded with concern over what republican will say about Dems
Wed Mar 6, 2019, 02:57 PM
Mar 2019
"And yet – and this is the scary part -- there is yet a third reason why 'Democratic Socialism' would be a branding disaster for Democrats. If the Democrats push “Democratic Socialism,” they will be reminding Donald Trump to talk more about his stewardship of the economy. They will be giving Trump a giant crowbar he can use to bang you over the heads of every Democratic candidate. They will be framing the 2020 debate on terms that are most favorable to Trump..."

If the Democrats push “Democratic Socialism,” they will be reminding Donald Trump to talk more about his stewardship of the economy. They will be giving Trump a giant crowbar he can use to bang you over the heads of every Democratic candidate. They will be framing the 2020 debate on terms that are most favorable to Trump.


"Stop worrying about what Republicans are going to call you.

They're going to call you that either way."
Ulysses S. Grant

Fuck Republicans.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»BTRTN: Hey, Democrats... ...