probably made the race much more dynamic now

Can only walk back and/or change positions so many times before people start to look at other alternatives. Hopefully, Joe acts fast to reset his campaign.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

a woman's right to choose needs to see a psychiatrist pronto.

The knee jerk reactions today have been transparent. It’s of the “Hey if I make a big deal about it maybe it will help my candidate” school of concern.

To the OP’s point, there are a lot of people here who view evolution as an extreme weakness and will continue to hold it against him. I don’t think it matters what he says TBH.

It is a valid question.

I don't care what a candidate did 20 or 30 years ago, people do change, I care what their positions are now

We have a lot of candidates, some whose positions are pretty similar to Joes, but are for the repeal of the Hyde Amendment

Sooner rather than later as they say.

but the insult is noted.

Though I don't agree with this position on Hyde, it's not a deal breaker for me. We're on the threshold of losing Roe. If Trump gains another four years, that loss is almost guaranteed. Joe Biden supports Roe and has called for the right to an abortion to be codified into state laws to protect access if and when SCOTUS gives it the axe. If we lose in the Court, the Hyde Amendment will be the least of our worries. The first thing is to protect what we have while we have it. Biden may evolve on the Hyde issue as he has on the abortion issue itself. That may turn some voters off, that he wasn't there on day 1. So be it.

The best way to protect Roe, protect Dreamers, protect workers, protect the planet from out of control Climate Change, etc. is winning in 2020. I'm convinced Joe Biden gives us our best chance to win back the WH. There may be other Biden issues I can't entirely square but this I do know: Biden is a hardcore Democrat, period. Putting a Democrat in the WH, holding the House and taking a crack at the Senate is everything from where I sit. Just is. Because without a win, we get zip and everything else goes to hell.

A GO4JOE 2020

Well Said!

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Good find!

As would those who want to support poor women. I count myself among those supporters and do see this as a deal breaker. YMMV

ETA: And this "we need to win in 2020" thing is what primaries are all about. We don't HAVE to vote for Biden and his shitty position on Hyde just because we need to win. We need to find the candidate that has the best shot of winning and actually supports the Dem platform on major issues like this.

abortion care when they need it. Especially right now. That position is unjust and discriminatory and endangers women and families.

ilyse hogue
Verified account
@ilyseh
President of @NARAL Pro-Choice America. Proud Texan. A rising lady lifts all boats.

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What was he thinking? Worse still, he believes that should be the law.

He signed an executive order in 2010 that essentially strengthened the amendment.

There have been a number of Democrats, including presidential candidates, who don’t believe federal money should be used to pay for abortions. It’s not exactly breaking news.

A lot of people here view that as a weakness. I don’t.

No doubt about it. At least with abortion he’s got a long record of supporting rights. His stance on weed is suboptimal in my view.

I hope he realizes I’ll be smoking. I just want to do it legally.

But he needs to get in the now on the issue. He has nothing to lose at all, which is why it is a frustrating position. There is widespread public support for federal legalization.

I will tell you Bannon I applaud your eloquent defense of Joe on this, and I mean it, but the only who can stop the damage, assuming there is damage from it, is Joe

I’m in the “all I care about is beating fat Donny” camp at this stage. I haven’t declared a candidate.

It will come up. Early and often.

I don't know if you tweet.. but here's Symone's twitter page.. Joe's Advisor..

https://twitter.com/symonedsanders?ref_src=twsrc%5egoogle%7ctwcamp%5eserp%7ctwgr%5eauthor

Hyde stance one of these days.. to let her know how disappointed so many are about this.

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Besides, Joe doesn't have the rhetorical skills of an Obama or a Buttigieg.

was nothing Obama had control over.

I also disagree with your second comment. You are underestimating Biden, and he demonstrated that when he debate Paul Ryan

It's a very high bar. That's what I meant.

If Joe does that, and makes no more gaffes, I think he still has a shot in this, his third and final primary race for President. Though, there's very little room for error this time around, with so many other capable Democratic candidates nipping at his heels.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

He could stand on his head and speak in tongues during the first debate and he’d still have a better shot at the nomination than Bernie.

Don’t get your hopes up.

But, I understand your nervousness!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

And they’re not speaking well for Bernie’s chances.

The misplaced, out of touch optimism is entertaining though.

candidates than Bernie

The sooner Joe walks back those positions, the better. Though it won't look great, and I'd rather go with a true original on most of those issues, like Bernie, Joe can't let those past positions define his candidacy and, so, he needs to walk them back... pronto!! If he does that, his chances to win the nomination, while not great IMHO, certainly improve to a certain extent.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

… he would be seen as strong, decisive... and correct. He could make this work in his favor...

Amendment is.

And Joe supports a woman’s right to choose. That’s what a majority of voters will care about.

A week from now it’ll be something else.

I'd say, so far, Joe is keeping the gaffes to a relative minimum.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

It’s about what the issue can do for your candidate.

touchy-feeliness seriously, and I don't like his support of the Hyde amendment. Those are real issues to me and they damage my opinion of him, which is my prerogative. I would rather he didn't have those issues.

I saw the tortured logic on display when you tried to make some kind of connection between the two.
Problem for those who hope this derails his candidacy is he has a long record of being pro abortion rights. That’s why it won’t stick. Most voters won’t look beyond that, and even if they do most will conclude the unequivocal support for Roe satisfies their concerns. Moreover most Americans don’t want federal money being used for abortions. So there’s that, too.

That’s how I know I won the argument.

Wasn’t much of a discussion when one person is running on emotion alone and the other is dealing in facts.

with unique learning opportunities that should help him this time around. Which is why I was a bit surprised by the charges of plagerism that were leveled against Biden, especially considering the circumstances under which he withdrew from the '88 primary race.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

by "standing up" to reproductive-choice supporters and putting us in our place, then I will be highly disappointed.

Joe is too politically smart to repeat that mistake... though, I didn't expect him to reaffirm support for the Hyde Amendment. I expect he'll walk that back before the week is out.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

and to state their true opinions, but I'm open to people changing their minds as well. But too much flip flopping doesn't work.

IMHO, he's better off taking heat for flip-flopping.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Should make it all the easier to get out in front of this now.

Rarely do I let a single issue bother me much. It’s the bigger package. The Hyde Amendment is a cornerstone of government oppression. That isn’t an overstatement. This one bothers me.

from 2003.
I don't see how he can walk it back now, though. Every little antichioce step brought us to where we are now.

The candidate who shows s/he can beat Trump might beat Biden for the nomination.

We'll see who else besides Biden can convince us.

to match the ones already set up to defeat him. There are probably dozens of them. I don't think he personally needs to step into every mud puddle that comes along, but it might be a good idea to find someone who is good at getting out his side of these stories when they do. Because they are already coming thick and fast.

I support Biden. Good grief, I won’t agree with anyone on everything!

There are a couple of things going on that need to be carefully disentangled and explained. But that's a job that the candidate is simply not in a position to do. Kerry tried it, Hillary tried it, but they never managed to put the memes away because the press kept them alive. So Biden is going to need a good team and full-time explainer, starting now.

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That's one of the tricky things that needs to be explained. Apparently it's a rider added annually in order to secure passage of the appropriation funding Medicare. So first, it's up to Congress, and second, if they don't add it, it's gone. So it's kind of a non-issue even though the issue itself is very important, as are Biden's policy record and intentions, which are distinct from his personal convictions, which are probably pro-life. So it's a big deal optically but when you get down to it there's no there there.

Like I say, it's an expert hit job, and tomorrow there will be another one.

p.s.

does it mean when ACLU asks if Biden would "lift the Hyde Amendment?"

Because other candidates said they would "lift it", too.

I misunderstood it at first

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The GOP has tried but never succeeded at making it a permanent law, so it's not something that needs to be struck down, and it's up to Congress to whether they want to add it each year and how it should be worded. The definition of what's allowed has expanded. When Biden says he supports it, I imagine what he supports is the necessary provision to allow Medicare and Medicare to be funded. I'd be very surprised if he supports the GOP effort to make it a permanent law.

Since Biden was there in 1977, he may have voted on the original law, but I haven't found anything on that. The others weren't there so it's easy to say yes without going into details. But there's a lot that needs explaining, including the fact that this is not the infamous Hyde Imigration Amendment of 2005, which also failed. That's what I thought of when I first saw this.

so I'm going to bookmark this thread!

Yesterday was Plagiarism Biden Day. Today, Hyde Amendment Biden Day. I see the headlines and don't bother to think about it until I root around and find someone who explains what's really going on. Then I can think. Wonder what Biden Day tomorrow will be!

Yeah tomorrow's memes should be even better.

I realize calling it a litmus test makes it all scary and shit, but it's a pretty major point.