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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

brooklynite

(94,589 posts)
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:49 PM Jun 2019

Let us stipulate that a robust social safety net is a good thing...

...why does Bernie Sanders insist on tagging it as "socialism"? There are plenty of capitalist countries that incorporate such policies.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Let us stipulate that a robust social safety net is a good thing... (Original Post) brooklynite Jun 2019 OP
This is a pet peeve of mine, The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #1
It's stupid that he calls himself a socialist. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #2
Do you really want to know? PETRUS Jun 2019 #3
Please do... brooklynite Jun 2019 #4
Thanks. PETRUS Jun 2019 #9
We can't afford such things because the 2019 Department of Defense budget is $686 billion sop Jun 2019 #5
Here. Here. emmaverybo Jun 2019 #8
Like most career politicians he is catering to his base. SouthernProgressive Jun 2019 #6
Perhaps because low-information voters (and more than a few DUers, it seems) Ron Green Jun 2019 #7
He doesn't melman Jun 2019 #10
It is marketing and branding ploy LibFarmer Jun 2019 #11
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,724 posts)
1. This is a pet peeve of mine,
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:51 PM
Jun 2019

and I've ranted about it elsewhere on DU. Somebody should remind him that the countries he cites as examples of successful socialism are actually monarchies.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Turin_C3PO

(14,004 posts)
2. It's stupid that he calls himself a socialist.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:58 PM
Jun 2019

He’s not one and should know the word “socialist“ is poisonous in this country.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
3. Do you really want to know?
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:00 PM
Jun 2019

When I've offered explanations to others my words usually go in one ear and out the other. (Not that I can speak for Sanders, but I have some acquaintance with the intellectual history of socialism.) If you're honestly interested, I'll tell ya...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

brooklynite

(94,589 posts)
4. Please do...
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:04 PM
Jun 2019

...provided that you're willing to accept that a disagreement doesn't mean ignoring your argument.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
9. Thanks.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:49 PM
Jun 2019

I don't think it's a matter of agreement or disagreement, though. It's a matter of historical facts.

There are a number of different schools of thought that fall under the general heading of "socialism," which you probably already know. But the general idea behind most all of them is handling questions of production and distribution democratically. Karl Polanyi wrote that "Socialism is, essentially, the tendency inherent in an industrial civilization to transcend the self-regulating market by consciously subordinating it to a democratic society." Reform-minded socialists (as opposed to revolutionary socialists) were, for the most part, the first people to propose the kinds of legislation we think of as representing a safety net. Norman Thomas (the leader of the Socialist Party of America during the early to mid 20th century) said "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But under the the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program." He was wrong about that (things only went so far), but in fact the Democratic party did adopt and pass a number of the reforms pushed by socialists - it's part of what made the New Deal what it was. In other countries (e.g. some of the Nordic countries) explicitly socialist parties pursued the same reforms - we call the result "social democracy." No countries following this path every became entirely socialist (they are mixed economies everywhere), but in all of them democratic politics do have an influence on questions of production and distribution, to varying degrees. It appears to me as though Sanders fits with this tradition, as he is pushing for incremental steps towards greater democratization of economic issues.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sop

(10,191 posts)
5. We can't afford such things because the 2019 Department of Defense budget is $686 billion
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:13 PM
Jun 2019

We don't need socialism, just a well-regulated capitalist system, with adequate highly-progressive taxation, that doesn't allocate half of its annual discretionary budget to military spending.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SouthernProgressive

(1,810 posts)
6. Like most career politicians he is catering to his base.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:14 PM
Jun 2019

But most other politicians are also able to bring others into the fold.

He clearly didn't learn that he needs to expand his base.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ron Green

(9,822 posts)
7. Perhaps because low-information voters (and more than a few DUers, it seems)
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:16 PM
Jun 2019

need to hear the term over and over, to the end that it loses its threat and becomes something people will actually discuss in a more practical way.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
10. He doesn't
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:56 PM
Jun 2019

Glad to clear that up for you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LibFarmer

(772 posts)
11. It is marketing and branding ploy
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 03:08 PM
Jun 2019

More shock value with the socialist label and makes it look like he is proposing something totally different from the other candidates. If BS didn't say something outrageous, the angry followers won't like it. This is why an ordinary, run-of-the-mill, garden-variety election for everyone became a "revolution."

I was once buying pants in GAP and because of the lighting, I asked the salesperson if they were black. (As opposed to dark navy - it was hard to tell)

The salesperson looked at me with disdain and said, "They are not black. They are licorice."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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