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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:03 PM Jun 2019

Trump and Biden Are Just Grumpy Old Men

Frank Rich

After weeks of sniping at each other from long distance, both Donald Trump and Joe Biden spent yesterday going head-to-head in Iowa, providing the framing that each of them seems to prefer on the road to 2020. Is it a mistake for either of them to look past a challenge from the rest of the Democratic field?

Yes, for both. I have no idea who is going to be the Democratic nominee, but I don’t think it’s going to be Biden. One of the several reasons is that by focusing solely on Trump 17 months before Election Day and refusing to engage with any of his Democratic opponents, he is disrespecting not just those opponents but the majority of voters in his own party. He looked presumptuous when he blew off an Iowa event with 19 other Democratic candidates over the weekend, no matter how commendable his excuse (a grandchild’s high-school graduation). In a party where every major politician (and presidential candidate) is fiercely anti-Trump, Biden isn’t even the most clever at goading him. Nancy Pelosi is the gold standard, with Pete Buttigieg and Elizabeth Warren coming up strong.

Biden leads in the polls but not by so much so that he can act like Trump’s anointed opponent. As James Hohmann of the Washington Post pointed out, in the new Des Moines Register poll, where Biden’s trajectory has started to drop, he leads the Democratic field by being the first choice of 24 percent of Iowa’s likely Democratic caucusgoers — as opposed to 57 percent for Clinton in the same poll four years ago. Only 29 percent of his supporters are “extremely enthusiastic” about him. Biden’s recent whiplash reversal on his decades-long support for the Hyde Amendment restricting abortion rights suggests that there will be further hits on that enthusiasm to come. It wasn’t just the politically clumsy flip-flopping that was the problem, but the lack of transparency about how it happened. His stance is “I am anti-Trump gladiator No. 1, so what else do you need to know?”

As for Trump, he is making the mistake of refighting the last war. He is lazy, and by assuming that he’ll face Biden, an Establishment party figure, he’s betting that he can recycle his Jeb Bush–Hillary Clinton playbook from four years ago. Indeed, he’s already smearing Biden’s energy (“he’s even slower than he used to be”) and health (also a big Fox News smear campaign), as he did, respectively, with those 2016 opponents. That he was so at a loss for a nickname for Buttigieg that he likened him to Alfred E. Neuman is an indicator of how his cultural antennae have atrophied with age since his prime-time heyday in The Apprentice. Unless he’s facing a fellow septuagenarian he’s likely to be off his very limited game. Presidents are always isolated from reality in the White House bubble but none ever to the degree of Trump. Mar-a-Lago is his idea of getting out among the folks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Trump and Biden Are Just Grumpy Old Men (Original Post) brooklynite Jun 2019 OP
the grumpiest is missing from the titlt lol. nt msongs Jun 2019 #1
Yup. n/t Control-Z Jun 2019 #4
Yeah, there are three "old men" running; Biden and trump are the youngest of the trio. George II Jun 2019 #10
Biden is a patriot. IluvPitties Jun 2019 #2
That it is customerserviceguy Jun 2019 #7
Bill Maher Pushes Back Against Criticisms of Biden's Old Views: He Has 'Learned and Moved On' Cha Jun 2019 #3
Pffft! Tarheel_Dem Jun 2019 #5
Who is Frank Rich? FloridaBlues Jun 2019 #6
Seriously? brooklynite Jun 2019 #11
WAS a very wise essayist. elleng Jun 2019 #15
There are certain times you should just google a question. mobeau69 Jun 2019 #16
Lol, no kidding! cwydro Jun 2019 #24
When my father was in hospice care in 2008, I used to read him Rich's political columns... brooklynite Jun 2019 #30
a grumpy old man JI7 Jun 2019 #39
A relic BannonsLiver Jun 2019 #40
Joe Biden is NOT grump. He is an intelligent, loving, nice man. trueblue2007 Jun 2019 #8
+1000 Thekaspervote Jun 2019 #13
I agree PatSeg Jun 2019 #19
Biden is FAR from being a "grumpy old man", and even further from being like trump. George II Jun 2019 #9
Ageism, the last refuge of bigots on both sides. Whatever Biden's ultimate political fate in this emmaverybo Jun 2019 #12
Well said. blue neen Jun 2019 #20
Is it ageism if a 70 yr old Democrat calls his party "old and creaky"? progressoid Jun 2019 #32
Sure. The awful thing is that older people internalize the myths about age and youth. I know, Dean emmaverybo Jun 2019 #33
Elizabeth Warren will be 70 later this month OKNancy Jun 2019 #35
Nancy Pelosi is not running, but as an advertisement for senior power...she is 79. emmaverybo Jun 2019 #36
Biden is Rebl2 Jun 2019 #14
Misplaced Grumpy headline aside, he has a point. marylandblue Jun 2019 #17
First Sleepy, now Grumpy. Scurrilous Jun 2019 #18
Ha good one!! Thekaspervote Jun 2019 #21
That made me LOL. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #22
I wondered what Rich would do without HRC to beat up on anymore 4now Jun 2019 #23
I like Rich, but whatever anyone could say about Biden - he's not grumpy. cwydro Jun 2019 #25
more both sides bs JI7 Jun 2019 #26
Yes, M$M Both Sides Do It BullShite. Cha Jun 2019 #27
Second time in less than two months Rich has taken a shot at Biden. Another fail. highplainsdem Jun 2019 #28
Bill Maher said that trump, Biden, Sanders are going to remake the movie "Cocoon." Hoyt Jun 2019 #29
He didn't say that, one of his guests did. BannonsLiver Jun 2019 #41
You might be right on that. Thanks. Hoyt Jun 2019 #42
So Hickenlooper should be President because Biden is treestar Jun 2019 #31
Biden is lovable Bhkylib Jun 2019 #34
It is a terrible campaign strategy. Makes no sense. BeckyDem Jun 2019 #37
Interesting take on things. Hmmm. Gives a person something to think about. Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #38
 

msongs

(67,413 posts)
1. the grumpiest is missing from the titlt lol. nt
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:07 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
10. Yeah, there are three "old men" running; Biden and trump are the youngest of the trio.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:38 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

IluvPitties

(3,181 posts)
2. Biden is a patriot.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:08 PM
Jun 2019

Ageist and stupid column.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
7. That it is
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:26 PM
Jun 2019

but it does mention the Hyde Amendment flip-flop. If Joe Biden does any more of these, then it will call into question if he really has core values. Can Joe be flip-flopped back when having to deal with Republicans in Congress?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,278 posts)
3. Bill Maher Pushes Back Against Criticisms of Biden's Old Views: He Has 'Learned and Moved On'
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:11 PM
Jun 2019
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=148257

Rich acts like he's not well informed on what's going on.. just wants to make a "grumpy old men" column.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
11. Seriously?
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:40 PM
Jun 2019
Wikipedia

Frank Hart Rich Jr. (born June 2, 1949) is an American essayist and liberal progressive op-ed columnist, who held various positions within The New York Times from 1980 to 2011.


Rich is currently writer-at-large for New York magazine, where he writes essays on politics and culture and engages in regular dialogues on news of the week for the "Daily Intelligencer".He served as executive producer of the long-running HBO comedy series Veep, having joined the show at its outset in 2011, and of the HBO drama series Succession.


From 1994 to 2011, Rich was an op-ed columnist for The New York Times; he wrote regularly on the connections between mass media and American politics. His columns, now appearing in New York Magazine, make regular references to a broad range of popular culture—including television, movies, theater and literature. In addition to his long-time work for the Times and New York, Rich has written for many other publications, including The New York Review of Books.


A July 2009 column focused on what Rich believes is the bigoted nature of President Barack Obama's detractors. On the Tea Party movement, which emerged in 2009, Rich opined that at one of their rallies they were "kowtowing to secessionists." He wrote that death threats and a brick thrown through a congressman's window were a "small-scale mimicry of "Kristallnacht" (or "night of broken glass", the November 1938 anti-Jewish pogrom in Nazi Germany and Austria). In his essays at New York, Rich has continued to examine the American right, including its latest revival during the candidacy and presidency of Donald Trump.


Rich's journalistic honors include the George Polk Award for commentary in 2005 and, in 2011, the Goldsmith Career Award for Excellence in Journalism from Harvard University. In 2016, he received the Mirror Award for Best Commentary from the Newhouse School at Syracuse University. He was inducted into the Theater Hall of Fame in 2015. Rich was twice a Pulitzer Prize finalist, in 1987 and 2005.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elleng

(130,964 posts)
15. WAS a very wise essayist.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:45 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mobeau69

(11,145 posts)
16. There are certain times you should just google a question.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:55 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
24. Lol, no kidding!
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:04 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
30. When my father was in hospice care in 2008, I used to read him Rich's political columns...
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:38 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JI7

(89,251 posts)
39. a grumpy old man
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 08:04 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

trueblue2007

(17,223 posts)
8. Joe Biden is NOT grump. He is an intelligent, loving, nice man.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:28 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PatSeg

(47,495 posts)
19. I agree
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 06:05 PM
Jun 2019

I can't recall Joe ever coming across as grumpy. Even during some of his darkest moments, he maintained a loving and optimistic attitude. During times of great loss, he was quick to reach out to others who were suffering. "Grumpy" was certainly a poor choice of words.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
9. Biden is FAR from being a "grumpy old man", and even further from being like trump.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:35 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
12. Ageism, the last refuge of bigots on both sides. Whatever Biden's ultimate political fate in this
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:41 PM
Jun 2019

race, he will always be an accomplished and experienced voice for reason. It is wonderful that he is
the candidate making the case against Trump. As a lifelong liberal, and a known bipartisan, he appeals to people from all walks of life and demographics; people of various political persuasions listen to him with respect.
They can’t label him a hater, a bitter partisan hack.
They can’t lob a great many of the usual insults they throw up against Trump critics.
And since he’s currently the front-runner, he has the audience numbers tuned in.
If he achieves nothing else, reaching a larger audience to warn that Trump is an “existential threat”
should be considered a public service.
The time is now, not after the primaries. It is now when the House is working diligently to educate
the public about Trump’s obstruction and to investigate further his connection to Russia that we need to unite voters on what large numbers can agree on: Trump must go.
And Trump recognizes Biden’s unique position from which to hasten his own political demise.
Many people love Biden. No one loves Trump but hating and hateful fanatics. The rest stick to the party or fear ours.






If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

progressoid

(49,991 posts)
32. Is it ageism if a 70 yr old Democrat calls his party "old and creaky"?
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 12:36 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
33. Sure. The awful thing is that older people internalize the myths about age and youth. I know, Dean
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 01:30 AM
Jun 2019

is a doctor. He might not know, however, about some of the newer studies on the potentially very positive ways older brains can work on problems.
Mentally and physically fit seniors are not “creaky.” Aging is not an illness.
And no, Trump is not in the throes of dementia. He’s just a sadistic, sociopathic crook having a laugh at our expense.







If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
35. Elizabeth Warren will be 70 later this month
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 06:15 PM
Jun 2019

She seems pretty sharp.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
36. Nancy Pelosi is not running, but as an advertisement for senior power...she is 79.
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 07:25 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Rebl2

(13,521 posts)
14. Biden is
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:43 PM
Jun 2019

certainly not a grumpy old man. I find him to be a kind man that loves his family and puts them first. What’s grumpy about that?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
17. Misplaced Grumpy headline aside, he has a point.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:57 PM
Jun 2019

Biden is branding himself as the anti-Trump with policy and even the entire GOP taking a back seat. If you think that's enough, then Biden's your candidate. But what if primary voters are looking for something more?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Scurrilous

(38,687 posts)
18. First Sleepy, now Grumpy.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:59 PM
Jun 2019

I wish his detractors would pick one dwarf moniker and stick with it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

4now

(1,596 posts)
23. I wondered what Rich would do without HRC to beat up on anymore
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 06:21 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
25. I like Rich, but whatever anyone could say about Biden - he's not grumpy.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:06 PM
Jun 2019

I can’t even imagine that adjective for him.

There’s another candidate that might fit however...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JI7

(89,251 posts)
26. more both sides bs
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:10 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(297,278 posts)
27. Yes, M$M Both Sides Do It BullShite.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:12 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,997 posts)
28. Second time in less than two months Rich has taken a shot at Biden. Another fail.
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:25 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
29. Bill Maher said that trump, Biden, Sanders are going to remake the movie "Cocoon."
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:27 PM
Jun 2019

For those who like to hate on Maher.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BannonsLiver

(16,394 posts)
41. He didn't say that, one of his guests did.
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 08:50 PM
Jun 2019

Bill has complained about the ageism in the media with regard to both sanders and Biden. I watched the exchange last week.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
42. You might be right on that. Thanks.
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 09:02 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
31. So Hickenlooper should be President because Biden is
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:54 PM
Jun 2019

a grumpy old man?

Nothing good to say about Hickenlooper. Guess he can't win unless the other candidates are proven to be evil.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bhkylib

(26 posts)
34. Biden is lovable
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 04:18 AM
Jun 2019

That's why his favorability numbers are so high.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
37. It is a terrible campaign strategy. Makes no sense.
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 07:26 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
38. Interesting take on things. Hmmm. Gives a person something to think about.
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 07:56 PM
Jun 2019

Yeah, he's struggling w/a nickname for Biden. "Sleepy Biden" or "Low Energy Biden" doesn't work, because Biden is the opposite of those things, unlike Jeb Bush, who is a lower key, slower movement type person. Biden is clearly more energetic and awake than Trump.

The Alfred E. Newman name was funny, because that is so outdated. Trump is living in a different era.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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